Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

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Maybe LE has dna and fingerprints belonging to several different people who they can identify but can be explained away because they belong to a searcher or people the girls had reason to come in to contact with in their daily lives? Therefore they do have DNA and fingerprints but do not know if they belong to the killer.
I don’t think the girls recognized bg and do not think he was someone in their immediate circle of family and friends... just wondering if maybe the reason they believe it is a local is because they have DNA and all of it is from local verifiable people.??
 
Another thing that has crossed my mind. Maybe I missed it but I don’t remember LE ever saying (we need to get this person before he does it again.) I most cases this is something that you hear over and over with emphasis on keep your kids close.

Could LE really know who it is and they’re not saying.

Could it be a cops adult kid or teenager. I stress adult because I really feel it’s a person 25-40.

Are they just trying to appease the public by saying it’s not a cold case.

If it were someone from a prominent family would they cover it up?

Just throwing some thoughts out there because I feel there’s just something amiss in this whole investigation.
 
Maybe LE has dna and fingerprints belonging to several different people who they can identify but can be explained away because they belong to a searcher or people the girls had reason to come in to contact with in their daily lives? Therefore they do have DNA and fingerprints but do not know if they belong to the killer.
I don’t think the girls recognized bg and do not think he was someone in their immediate circle of family and friends... just wondering if maybe the reason they believe it is a local is because they have DNA and all of it is from local verifiable people.??
At 30-32 seconds in, while talking about that parked vehicle that was "abandoned" between the hours of 1-5 Feb 13th, 2017, watch ISP Carter's reaction to either something he sees, something he saying or what appears to me to be a combination of thise two. Right when he speaks the words,
"Please contact the officers at the command post...".
Anyone else get a gut feeling from that? I'm just being curious and cautious.

I can only find this particular video from WIS NEWS on this link, hope it doesn't matter that it's Facebook. My apologies if I'm in error.
WIS TV on Facebook Watch
I do get a feeling from him at that point, emotional..Something I can’t put my finger on.
I feel that many times watching his eyes and TL‘s eyes. They both seem to at times focus on a specific spot to their left and one straight ahead. Both men seem very emotional like they want to grab someone up and shake them or arrest them right there. And it may be my imagination but TL’s cheeks seem to get more flushed and red as Carter speaks.
 
IMO In a case without fingerprints or DNA, how are the possible suspects ruled out? An alibi? Confirmation of their location on the date/time of the crime? It still concerns me that a tip may have been provided, someone may have thought, "Hey that looks like ______ in the video & he was acting odd that week" but when police dig a little someone is covering for someone, they hit a brick wall of a "solid alibi" & move on.
 
How do they know the bomb threat was unconnected to the murders if they never caught who called in the bomb threat?
It’s surprising to me in this situation that they weren’t able to determine who phoned in the bomb threat. How is this even possible? Also an interesting ploy to get someone out of work especially just long enough to attend a press conference. IMO
 
I started that topic on Reddit and others agreed. HLN absolutely manipulated the perspective at the end of the bridge to fit their preferred theme, and not the reality of the matter. They had the camera one foot above the planks on the far left side of the bridge, aiming slightly across to the right. That perspective and that perspective alone makes the area beyond the bridge look cluttered by trees and all but impassable. After using that angle the narrator said (paraphrased), "Trees have overrun the area beyond the bridge...meaning the trail ends and you have to turn around."

HLN producers knew darn well that if they used a normal view from a cameraman standing up at the end of the bridge, the gaps between trees would be blatantly obvious and especially the big open yard at left, beginning only about 50 yards beyond the bridge. This is the same type of disgusting tactic that Greeno often used early in the case, refusing to show normal angles in his videos while instead determined to jostle everything around and with extreme close ups to make everything seem as scary as possible.

Last year during "Down the Hill" podcast, HLN initially said the girls were trapped at the end of the bridge. Once evidence surfaced the other way they hastily and sloppily edited the finished product. But they still want to leave that impression. Hence the slanted portrayal. For whatever reason everyone seems to think it is a slap at Abby and Libby -- or diminish the hero aspect somewhat -- to matter of factly report that they could have run away into open yards within 10 seconds or less, but decided not to.

Unfortunately the false impression was ingrained early in the case that Libby was scared of Bridge Guy, and that's why she filmed him. Once that has entered the mindset it apparently seems contradictory to turn around and aim the camera at those nearby open yards, ones that were in plain sight in February 2017, as evidenced by Julie Melvin's video three weeks after the murders. When given a choice of protecting the false impression or correctly pointing out that the logical decision was not to dash away, HLN and virtually everyone else desperately clutch the false impression. And that false impression will never be dented until we see the full actual video...with Bridge Guy occupying perhaps 10% of the screen. An aside.

Ironically, it would actually be extremely valuable to film the entirety of the bridge crossing from one foot above the planks. I have emphasized that on many sites. It would remove the treacherous focus and demonstrate that there is plenty of room for a human being, on slightly uneven planks that are troubled and gapped at the outset then considerably more normal and tame near the end.

I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but the Crime Door walkthrough is especially helpful is offering up perspective (figuratively, and literally). You can virtually traverse the entire bridge, past where BG would have come from. For folks who don't pay for Crime Door, several media outlets have posted stills (again, sorry if this has been mentioned beforehand!).
 
Maybe LE has dna and fingerprints belonging to several different people who they can identify but can be explained away because they belong to a searcher or people the girls had reason to come in to contact with in their daily lives? Therefore they do have DNA and fingerprints but do not know if they belong to the killer.
I don’t think the girls recognized bg and do not think he was someone in their immediate circle of family and friends... just wondering if maybe the reason they believe it is a local is because they have DNA and all of it is from local verifiable people.??

I do get a feeling from him at that point, emotional..Something I can’t put my finger on.
I feel that many times watching his eyes and TL‘s eyes. They both seem to at times focus on a specific spot to their left and one straight ahead. Both men seem very emotional like they want to grab someone up and shake them or arrest them right there. And it may be my imagination but TL’s cheeks seem to get more flushed and red as Carter speaks.
Yes I agree to the seemingly two spots of eye direction, glares really. It's interesting to note exactly what was being said when they occured. The one to the middle area of the room in particular. I see these things and the feelings permeating and think he was talking to someone in the room. AJMO
 
In the 2 part special, did they show actual crime scene shots and, if so, what were they of?

Some of the things in the short clip I linked to were questionable, IMO. And slightly un-nerving. There is a quick night-time flash of a person taking 2 steps and the view was from ground level. He was wearing boots and the silver things the laces go through flashed in the light. Omg... how many times did we discuss BG's boots? I even have a screen cap with arrows pointing to those silver things.

Did the producers read peoples' comments and play to them?

Then, there was another quick look at what I think was the right side of the south end of the bridge. In all the videos I've looked at, I've never seen that particular area of the bridge. Nor did I ever consider he may have taken them off that side...it certainly looked more private than the creek side.
 
Since they've evidently already asked for and received one independent review (from GBI) I'd hope that they'd continue to be open to other reviews by outside agencies.

The original question from @Betty P asked if another agency could arrest and try the case in a different jurisdiction. My reply was mainly to show that specific suggestion is likely unconstitutional.

Your answer to BettyP is correct and I hope other agencies will be allowed to look at things too. “Allowed” being the key word.
I’m mostly talking about non-agency independent investigators. I really think they need to open this up to a lot of eyes.
I am so over LE saying “we have people that work on it every day”, “we get tips every day” blah blah blah. Do they want to solve it? Then LE should start making decisions that indicate they want to solve it. Two people working on it they claim...release some information and LE suddenly have two hundred thousand people working on it. Forget the “oh no false confessions” stuff. You don’t have to release everything and LE should be able to figure them out. Is it a waste of time to do that? No more than the four years LE has already wasted. Release some information. It’s not all or nothing.
Solve the stupid case. There is so much more that could be done.
Just my thoughts.
 
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I went over to the ISP page for Abby and Libby, ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation, to see if any thing was new or different from the last time I checked around a year ago. I can't say they have posted anything new, but, I realized I had never viewed all four of the video image files that are posted. I watched the one labeled: https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_MotionFix.webm, and it was so obvious to me now that the white thing in BG's neck area are flexi-cuffs like the type LE and Capitol insurrectionists carry. Here is a screenshot:

Screenshot_2021-02-16 Delphi_MotionFix webm.png

I think it's very possible that BG chased the girls down the hill, across the creek, and restrained one of them with the flexi-cuffs, then threatened to kill her if the other girl didn't comply to being restrained as well. That's how he would have gained control of both of them.

All JMO. Theory-busters are welcome. :)
 
In the 2 part special, did they show actual crime scene shots and, if so, what were they of?

Some of the things in the short clip I linked to were questionable, IMO. And slightly un-nerving. There is a quick night-time flash of a person taking 2 steps and the view was from ground level. He was wearing boots and the silver things the laces go through flashed in the light. Omg... how many times did we discuss BG's boots? I even have a screen cap with arrows pointing to those silver things.

Did the producers read peoples' comments and play to them?

Then, there was another quick look at what I think was the right side of the south end of the bridge. In all the videos I've looked at, I've never seen that particular area of the bridge. Nor did I ever consider he may have taken them off that side...it certainly looked more private than the creek side.
Looking at google maps, that area southwest of the bridge does appear more isolated, with little washout areas away from view and NOT requiring crossing the creek. It's partly why I've never thought this was some elaborately planned event, because honestly, it looks like there were maybe easier spots to take them. I haven't been to the location, though, so the reality might be different.

This whole thing was high risk, it seems, and for that reason I think he was acting impulsively, without much consideration to the risk of being seen, could have started his attack on the south side of the creek. I think L's shoe was there, and I think it's possible the phone might have been, too. It's maybe even why there isn't more audio.

Maybe killing them was an afterthought and that's when he realized he needed to get them out of view. I mean, maybe instead if him crossing the creek there because it was the best spot to cross, he simply crossed there because it was where they were. IDK. I'm trying various theories on for size.
 
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IMO In a case without fingerprints or DNA, how are the possible suspects ruled out? An alibi? Confirmation of their location on the date/time of the crime? It still concerns me that a tip may have been provided, someone may have thought, "Hey that looks like ______ in the video & he was acting odd that week" but when police dig a little someone is covering for someone, they hit a brick wall of a "solid alibi" & move on.

I’d think the difficulty for LE is finding additional supporting evidence against a potential suspect. In a court of law, an accused isn’t required to prove himself innocent. So even if someone without any solid alibi (ie home or working alone) who was acting oddly (could be many explanations, people act oddly for a variety of reasons), he wouldn’t automatically be presumed a strong suspect if LE have no other incriminating evidence against him or couldn’t break him under questioning. A resemblance to a grainy photo or wobbly video just isn’t enough evidence in itself. If it were by now charges probably could’ve been laid against 100s of “BGs”.

Although every day I hope for resolution in this case, one thing I’m glad for is it appears LE are doing a thorough and careful job of investigating as opposed to years gone by and the laying of charges against some poor, hapless sucker just for the sake of an apparent resolution and job well done. There’s no solace in wrongful convictions.

JMO
 
Excellent points, IMO.

I wanted to see if there was ever a case where LE came out and said "we now think we've released too much info to ever get a conviction." For obvious reasons you wouldn't expect many authorities to say that in public even if they privately believed it was true.

However, I did find this example fairly quickly: DA: Too much information released during sisters' murder investigation

In that case, the media reported that the victims had been doused in bleach to destroy evidence and reported on the specific investigative tactics that led to the suspect's capture. I thought the DA in that case explained his perspective very well on why that was highly destructive to an otherwise open and shut case.

I think the Delphi DA and LE fear a similar situation. This is bound to be a highly emotional trial situation from the perspective of the public who have been very invested in this case.

Thanks, that’s interesting. I was also trying to think back to recent examples of LE releasing or describing crime scene evidence prior to an arrest occurring and I couldn’t come up with much of anything. Sometimes witnesses speak to reporters about what they saw or heard or after charges are laid, reporters publish details including what’s written in the Indictments. But as for LE volunteering to the public details their investigation has uncovered prior to that, no.
 
I take my cue from the girls' loved ones for attitude toward LE.
I haven't heard or read more than mild and understandable frustration from them.
I figure if the girls' families can continue to support LE, then who am I to waver from their attitude?
The families are the ones suffering, grieving, some might even say tortured by the seeming lack of progress on this case.
I'm just a bystander. Who am I to criticize without knowing all the facts? What is my desire to know and to have the case solved compared to the feelings of the families?
Of course here on WS we have that right to criticize, within TOS. I'm not saying posters shouldn't post their criticisim and frustration. Just explaining why I'm not jumping on the 'LE are incompetent' bandwagon.
The families know more than we do, but they don't know what LE knows.
We don't know what we don't know.
My perspective is that supporting the families means taking the same attitude they have, that is an expression of my respect for the girls' loved ones.
JMO
 
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(RS&BBM)

If the town is made up of people who have a belief system that prevents them from accepting the guilt of this person when evidence is presented at trial, it sounds like they've created their own unique version of hell on earth...

Bingo!

Someone in Delphi/very nearby appears (or so it would seem) to be... "un-convictable" (just made that up; sounds weird 'cause it *is* weird).

This ("perfection") is a huge part of the local LE's predicament (yes, hard for those of us who are "outsiders" to wrap our minds around).

Someone with...
  • prestige
  • power
  • authority
  • "clout"
  • $$$$$
  • "connections"
(pick one or more)
...is causing the local LE to have "fits" (internally speaking, that is; never publicly).

The problem is this: LE *does* have DNA. They do have fingerprints. Witnesses? Super-iffy on that, especially due to "helpful" (think: "dishonest") individuals :eek: toward the beginning of the investigation back in 2017. (They do have *more* than they're saying/what some might *want* them to say.)

The "one piece of evidence" that they need? Just one individual (likely a family member, nearby neighbor, or really good friend ["used to be a good friend" ;)] who will pin down exactly where the killer was during certain hours on *both* Feb. 13th and Feb. 14th, 2017).

So... which person (with a direct link to the killer) is ready and willing to put a "target" on his/her head? Hmm. Probably none.

All JMOO. "Moo, moooo..." :)

110% speculation.
 
At 30-32 seconds in, while talking about that parked vehicle that was "abandoned" between the hours of 1-5 Feb 13th, 2017, watch ISP Carter's reaction to either something he sees, something he's saying or what appears to me to be a combination of thise two. Right when he speaks the words,
"Please contact the officers at the command post...".
Anyone else get a gut feeling from that? I'm just being curious and cautious.

I can only find this particular video from WIS NEWS on this link, hope it doesn't matter that it's Facebook. My apologies if I'm in error.
WIS TV on Facebook Watch

This URL for this link is now messed up - an extra 2 characters got added to it that make it redirect immediately to other videos. (Probably something to do with the station updating their website.) The correct URL is contained here: WIS TV on Facebook Watch
(If this link gets corrupted too, hover on the link on this page, copy the link when you are given the option, then open a new tab, paste the URL into the address bar, and remove the 2 characters "m." immediately before the word facebook appears. This edited URL then should lead to the correct video.)

There are several times in that snippet where Carter seems to look at specific individuals in his audience, whom we can't see but people in the room surely could. I think what you're seeing is he gives a deep sigh, or even gasps for a moment before he can continue talking. As if thinking about it, while looking at that person, really bothers him. I'd like to know if anyone in the room noticed it or remembers who he was looking at during those words.
 
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