Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[JnRyan]

I've always thought to show her Dad and/or her Grandpa the guy that made them uncomfortable. I think BG was acting what sone would think was oddly, talking or singing to himself. I'd probably talk to myself going over that bridge, possibly even question my intelligence outloud or sing to relieve anxiety. We know from AW account of listening to some of Libby's audio that her Abby voiced being uncomfortable with BG's approach.

I hadn't thought about those and any of those could be the more likely reason. Another item that someone either local or had been to the trails pointed out and that is an unwritten rule about walking on the bridge. That is, if someone else is already on the bridge you don't get on it till they have gotten off. It eliminates the chance of having to pass someone going in the opposite direction on already scary structure. In the Snapchat photo of Abigail on the bridge there is no one behind them. Yet when they are at the other side of the bridge this guy is closing in on them, possibly before they've even reached the end. Liberty might have taken this photo to show their friends this jerk that got on the bridge while they were on it. (I don't know if Liberty would have shown the photo to her grandparents since Abigail's mother stated that Abigail shouldn't have been on the bridge. It sounded like Abigail would have been in trouble if word got from Liberty's grandparents to Abigail's mother.)

 

[Seattle1]

Anyone know how I can watch the HLN documentary on this? I’m in U.K. and can not find it anywhere. I don’t get why they’ve not uploaded it to YT

See link for 20 min preview

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

 

[Seattle1]

A panel discusses who killed the girls

YT date 2/19/2021

“True Crime Live" host and HLN anchor Mike Galanos leads an engaging and revealing Q&A with HLN documentary producers Drew Iden and Barbara MacDonald along with famed criminologist Casey Jordan featuring the top viewer questions surrounding the mystery and the investigation.

Abby & Libby tipline: 844-459-5786, or email: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com.

 

[JnRyan]

I finished watching the HLN program last night on recording. I have to say after watching it I was underwhelmed with the info provided. I believe it was because of the build up in advance that I was expecting some big revelation. In fact, I had to restart the second episode 3 or 4 times because I fell asleep watching it. At the same time, I am overwhelmed that the hosts could get 2 hours after what little real info LE has given us. Granted, a lot of this is background on who the girls were, what town folks think, what the family thinks, what the town looks like, etc. Getting 2 hours out there keeps the case refreshed in the minds of those that have heard about it and informs those that did not know about it. It's that last part that could lead to a tip. If the volume of posts in the last few days is any indication I have to hope there was a surge in tips.

One thing that was conspicuous by its absence was the car seen at the abandoned CPS building and a discussion of it. Did the HLN folks just miss this? Or is it no longer relevant?

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Please leave DJN out of this discussion. He was hashed out in earlier discussions, but as per Supt Carter:

Daniel Nations no longer a major concern in Delphi murders

"As you all know, we went out to Colorado and we spent a little bit of time with him [Daniel Nations], and he's not a person we care a whole lot about at this time," Superintendent Douglas Carter with the Indiana State Police said Tuesday. “Until somebody is arrested, we’re interested in almost everybody.”

 

[Charlot123]

I hadn't thought about those and any of those could be the more likely reason. Another item that someone either local or had been to the trails pointed out and that is an unwritten rule about walking on the bridge. That is, if someone else is already on the bridge you don't get on it till they have gotten off. It eliminates the chance of having to pass someone going in the opposite direction on already scary structure. In the Snapchat photo of Abigail on the bridge there is no one behind them. Yet when they are at the other side of the bridge this guy is closing in on them, possibly before they've even reached the end. Liberty might have taken this photo to show their friends this jerk that got on the bridge while they were on it. (I don't know if Liberty would have shown the photo to her grandparents since Abigail's mother stated that Abigail shouldn't have been on the bridge. It sounded like Abigail would have been in trouble if word got from Liberty's grandparents to Abigail's mother.)

Once again, and sorry for misunderstanding.

That guy did not cover the bridge, did he? He appeared from the SE side, right? Because if he came from NW side, covering the bridge that fast should have seemed suspicious to the girls. It is a shaky bridge. (I am bad at geography and have to look at maps, sorry).

Well I’d only say LE has never invited us to engage in a guessing game - investigators only ask for help in identifying the killer, and after that events preceding the murders will be heard in the courtroom. If they really wanted to tell us everything they know, they’d do so and there’d be no need to guess.

But for example the comment regarding “victims of circumstances and opportunity” it appears to me the intention is to quell speculation about the girls doing something that directly resulted in their deaths. I’m sure those sorts of rumours must be very hurtful to the families.

The girls are pure victims. Of evilness and craziness. Nothing that they did should have resulted in such a response.

As to LE, he did not invite us, but if there is a serial killer, or a sick person on the loose, they sort of...owe us all, yes. The country, not only Indiana. This is scary, otherwise.

 

[Ekliptika]

There are 2 interesting things mentioned in the HNL discussion mentioned in above post from my point of view. Timestamp 23.40 they discuss that Libby’s phone pinged late at night and LE sent searchers out to look for the phone. They were also talking about this in the documentary, but from there I understood it such that they at 2.30 am recieved info about that the phone had pinged from the area of the bridge earlier that day. I did not understand it such that the phone actually pinged at 2.30 am. I don’t know anything about how phones Ping, but this sounds a bit weird to me.
Second, timestamp 35:45 they talk about the vitnesses, and that one Young witness actually spoke a few words with a man that could be BG, but the witness was able to turn away and head in another direction. This is new info for me as Well.

 

[Charlot123]

"Without intention to kill the girls" I wonder how that can possibly be? What would be the motive: Did LE think it was someone who knew the family and thought they would be gone?

Arson - Wikipedia

Maybe insurance fraud?

 

[Seattle1]

There are 2 interesting things mentioned in the HNL discussion posted above from my point of view. First they mention that Libby’s phone pinged at 2.30 am and LE sent searchers out to look for the phone. They were also talking about this in the documentary, but from there I understood it such that they at 2.30 am recieved info about that the phone had pinged from the area of the bridge earlier that day. I did not understand it such that the phone actually pinged at 2.30 am. I don’t know anything about how phones Ping, but this sounds a bit weird to me.
Second, they talk about the vitnesses, and that one Young witness actually spoke a few words with a man that could be BG, but the witness was able to turn away and head in another direction. This is new info for me as Well.

If I remember correctly, I believe that Libby's grandfather was finally able to officially/legally request their cell phone carrier ping Libby's phone (send signal) at about this hour, and they determined the phone's location to be near the bridge. I further understood the search had been called off for the night until this information was known -- sending searchers out again to look for the girls. MOO

 

[JnRyan]

Once again, and sorry for misunderstanding.

That guy did not cover the bridge, did he? He appeared from the SE side, right? Because if he came from NW side, covering the bridge that fast should have seemed suspicious to the girls. It is a shaky bridge. (I am bad at geography and have to look at maps, sorry).

The girls entered the bridge from the NW side. Some theorize that this killer also did and just covered the distance faster than they did. That he covered the distance faster than the girls may not be all that unusual by itself as the girls may have been taking their time for photos and such, plus this was Abigail's first time on the bridge. So she may walked cautiously across. This guy may have walked a normal pace and caught up with them. However, some folks such as the hosts of the HLN special believe he was already at the SE end when the girls got there. I don't agree with that as he entered from the NW same as the girls. Others who have actually been to the bridge may have a different take on that theory.

 

[Ekliptika]

If I remember correctly, I believe that Libby's grandfather was finally able to officially/legally request their cell phone carrier ping Libby's phone (send signal) at about this hour, and they determined the phone's location to be near the bridge. I further understood the search had been called off for the night until this information was known -- sending searchers out again to look for the girls. MOO

Ok, this makes sense. I guess then the phone had not run out of battery or been turned off, since it would ping?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Arson - Wikipedia

Maybe insurance fraud?

I thought about that but it didn't seem to fit.

 

[Justice101]

Good point, hypothermia.

I think sometimes imagination take words such as signatures and staging toward a truly macabre death scene. But for the simple fact the two girls were believed to be missing, people walking around, searching while calling out their names hoping to hear a response “we’re over here”, instead only silence....then the discovery of their bodies. IMO that’d qualify as a upsetting, gruesome find regardless of how they were murdered.

And I originally thought that the perp may have duct taped the girls mouths and then zip tied their hands behind a tree.. such that they did die of exposure.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

But my head is spinning. With what they have already said...

Can anyone, please, make Ives explain things to the media? Because I lost DC in 2019 after that PC, and I am losing Leazenby with his own inconsistencies.

Sometimes I have the impression, LE know very well, who their suspect is, but it is a dangerous territorium for the public to only get an idea also. So LE have to beware the secret until BG is arrested one day in the future. The problem seems to be, to open up a little bit to the interested public without saying one single word too much. They (LE) can't do this without contradicting themselves or the next colleague or the next organisation; they just aren't able. Perhaps it has never been difficult like that before for ISP/the Sheriff etc., because the situation is potentially scandalous. IMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe when the say “victims of circumstances and opportunity”, they mean, the girls were killed for taking this photo or video? The perpetrator must have been totally deranged then. What condition would make a person kill two girls in one moment, and hide in plain sight - in the other?

(And even if he thought they were ridiculing him - kids do this! They are kids! What adult would kill a kid for dissing him? A kid!!!)

My thinking was: they would have told their parents/friends at home after their return, not ridiculing him directly and openly.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I also wonder about that witness, LE was referring to. I guess when they say they have a witness, they are referring to the witness that saw the younger looking person, maybe this witness saw him before he put his disguise on? Have description of clothing been mentioned in relations to the younger looking sketch?

^^ This maybe?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I've got a couple of theories about that fire, which cannot be discussed here, but LE must feel the fire was set for purposes other than or without knowledge of people inside.

"Murder for hire" is known. Can you hire an arsonist also?

 

[FrostedGlass]

Someone asked earlier about a place where the girls might be taken. Whenever someone mentions Carter's "shack", I think about this one.

This first pic is a cabin located just on the other side of the snowbird's property line. The sandbar on the left is located on RL's property, so anyone who spent time down at the creek probably knew about the cabin. I haven't heard anything about it except that it's there.

The second pic shows the entire area: top left arrow points to the cemetery, the next one clock-wise is RL's place, middle right is the cabin, bottom middle is the snowbird's home and the one on the far left is the end of the bridge. As many times as I looked at this pic, I never saw a "path" until the other day. In my mind, I can imagine them escaping the cabin, crossing the creek at the sandbar, hiding/running along the treeline and ending up being caught where they were found.

 

[TL4S]

"Murder for hire" is known. Can you hire an arsonist also?

I don't think it's likely the case here, but I'm sure there are people who would be willing to do just about anything for the right price or motivation, unfortunately.

 

[Skully]

The girls entered the bridge from the NW side. Some theorize that this killer also did and just covered the distance faster than they did. That he covered the distance faster than the girls may not be all that unusual by itself as the girls may have been taking their time for photos and such, plus this was Abigail's first time on the bridge. So she may walked cautiously across. This guy may have walked a normal pace and caught up with them. However, some folks such as the hosts of the HLN special believe he was already at the SE end when the girls got there. I don't agree with that as he entered from the NW same as the girls. Others who have actually been to the bridge may have a different take on that theory.

I agree with you, I think he was behind them, but due to them just being girls, talking and such, they didn't notice him until it was too late. It would be interesting to see if someone could reenact that, to see if someone could catch up to you and not be noticed. At first when I saw the photos of where he was in comparison to where they were, I thought they may have let him pass and then he was ahead of them, off the bridge and sort of hid, until he pulled out a gun and told them "down the hill". But now, I think he just caught up to them and once he did, he pulled a gun to get them to comply.