Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[Yemelyan]

When LE stated early on to know what your kids are doing online was that in reference to an early on suspected perp or witness and not the girls for obvious reasons? IMO

I wish we knew more.

Even though many people interpreted it as a reference to online behaviors, the member of ISP who said this did not use the word "online." I myself remembered it as "online" until I looked up the exact quote once:

"Be cautious and careful and be parents...know where your children are and what they are doing."

ISP: Delphi Amber Alert wouldn't have helped

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

We are on Thread #129 and Websleuths Victim Friendly policy remains the same as always.

All family are considered victims and are not to be sleuthed and are not to be accused.

From: The Rules: Etiquette & Information

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed. That does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media.

Things that can not be discussed on the public thread can be discussed in private messaging. Just don't bring information from those off-limit conversations to the thread.

Thank you.

 

[MistyWaters]

I know for me, and I would sure hope everyone else here, most people don't mean it like that. I would never blame it on the girls. When we discussed things like a possible creep befriending them online under a guise, that would absolutely been the creep's fault, not theirs. The discussion simply helps to try to narrow down who did this rather than point fingers at anyone but that person.

Oh no, I wouldn’t consider that example blaming the girls at all. When a predator preys on a victim, it’s surely never the victims fault. What I was thinking, in the example of online luring by the perp using a false identity to befriend and build trust, there’s definitely an element of premeditation and preplanning going on in those types of homicides.

However “victims of circumstance and opportunity” would seem to me to describe a situation involving the opposite, a more spontaneous yet equally tragic scenario. The girls were at the wrong place at the wrong time although in the mind of the killer, it was the right place, right time for whatever reason he chose to attack them.
JMO

 

[mom2chloe]

Also I wish Indiana residents would reach out to their Senators, Representatives and Governor and demand DNA laws to find perps and prosecute them. I’m kind of old but for Pete’s sake get with the times. There is no excuse. These murders matter and when will we experience similar? MOO

 

[PaulaDC]

He may not have known what she was wearing. It probably caught his eye because it was colorful and stood out from the surroundings.

Well I'm assuming that when there's a search the searchers learn who they're searching for and absolutely everything connected to their appearance to be able to i.d. them if they find them. In my opinion last seen in _____ _____ & _____ is necessary identifying info.

 

[Spartygirl]

I agree. Walking the trail back to his car was a superior choice than walking along County Road 300. These are vacant trails. I am going to continue to emphasize that, despite the hype of 70 people or popular area among youth. Bridge Guy made a number of correct choices. Cars would be favored to pass him on County Road 300, over let's say 10 minutes. Meanwhile 10 minutes on a stretch of Monon High Bridge Trail is huge favoritism to be completely vacant.

Do those smart choices make him more likely to be local, or prepared outsider? We were discussing this on another site recently. I said 70/30 toward outsider.

If he is local then I think he is larger and younger than conventional wisdom. I don't think a 40 year old from Delphi could get away with this for so long. Mid 20s or younger...possibly. If he's local I also think he might have used County Road 300 both ways, coming and going.

And...if he really didn't want to be seen walking trails from CPS or FB to MHB, he could have parked at the cemetery.
JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

But my head is spinning. With what they have already said...

Can anyone, please, make Ives explain things to the media? Because I lost DC in 2019 after that PC, and I am losing Leazenby with his own inconsistencies.

Welcome to Delphi LOL
Seems to be, since the beginning, it is nothing but spinning verbiage from LE.
I know most cases, we are to listen to LE vs family and friends, but in this case, I tend to do the opposite.
JMO

 

[Spartygirl]

I finished watching the HLN program last night on recording. I have to say after watching it I was underwhelmed with the info provided. I believe it was because of the build up in advance that I was expecting some big revelation. In fact, I had to restart the second episode 3 or 4 times because I fell asleep watching it. At the same time, I am overwhelmed that the hosts could get 2 hours after what little real info LE has given us. Granted, a lot of this is background on who the girls were, what town folks think, what the family thinks, what the town looks like, etc. Getting 2 hours out there keeps the case refreshed in the minds of those that have heard about it and informs those that did not know about it. It's that last part that could lead to a tip. If the volume of posts in the last few days is any indication I have to hope there was a surge in tips.

One thing that was conspicuous by its absence was the car seen at the abandoned CPS building and a discussion of it. Did the HLN folks just miss this? Or is it no longer relevant?

I believe the car is NO longer relevant.
JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Looking over some CNN transcripts. On February 20, 2017 on the Prime Time Justice Show with Ashleigh Banfield....Jean Casarez filling in hosting that night. Her panel of people included Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. The conversation with the Sheriff led into the host bringing up the following...

CASAREZ: "Of course. You know, Jonna, they executed a search warrant Thursday [Feb.16th] night right before the show started at a home in Delphi.

They were looking at the grass area around the home. They say nothing of evidentiary value came from that. But to search the grass surrounding the home shows they believe there were things missing from the crime scene, right?"

JONNA SPILBOR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: "Perhaps, or were they searching for a particular footprint that was going to match a footprint near the scene?"

CNN.com - Transcripts

I'd never heard about that at the time, LE seen checking the lawn during that search.

Then on February 22, 2017, "evidence" was photographed in a plastic bag containing boots, by ABC-7's Alexis McAdams and posted but never clarified where the pucture was taken. Just a curious thing...Feb 22, 2017 was also the day there was a bomb threat at the Indiana Meat Packing Plant in Delphi.

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexismcadamstv/status/834521628419710989?lang=en

I wonder if the killer did leave foot prints down by the creek somewhere. Any other ideas as to why LE would be checking the lawn surrounding a home while investigating the Delphi murders two days after the girls were found?

 

[Spartygirl]

I’ve followed this case from day one. Having 28 years in military and federal law enforcement, I sometimes (much to my chagrin), get drawn into a case that I become pretty well obsessed with it. Although I’ve followed along on every one of these threads, I hardly ever post, unless it’s one particular issue that I really do obsess over in these cases. Because LE is so tight-lipped about this case, there is so much we don’t know about the facts, to include the motivation, method, and means of the assailant(s).

<modsnip: Not victim friendly>

TB: “we don’t believe there is an on-going threat to the community.” How the hell could that be if they don’t know who the killer is that just murdered two young ladies? That could be disastrous and completely irresponsible to make a statement of that nature if they don’t have a solid understanding of who committed this crime - full stop people. Is any law enforcement official going to make a statement like that so early on if they believe there is a killer on the loose in their town?

People say Serial Killer. Well why hasn’t there been even a shred of evidence that there are other murders within that region that fits this profile?
Or any since? I don’t believe a serial killer with this type of modus operandi would be able to contain himself for four years without doing it again - and surely word would leak out if it did.

I think they know, but need further evidence to make this an air tight case for the prosecution. That’s why all the secrecy and willingness to withhold information from the public.

This is just my opinion only, and of course it’s just speculation as well as everyone else’s. I just felt I needed to put this out there, since it seems no one has addressed it. I have more thoughts, but feel free to tear my speculation to shreds.

Nope...not tearing it apart at all. I am 1000% in agreement with you.
When TL first said, no threat to the community, I felt they knew or had idea who it was and why no threat.
Targeted, IMO, yes...again that is why no threat.
LE keeps saying they just need that ONE piece of the puzzle and IMO, that is someone who has provided an alibi or suspects a family member, to come forward.
JMO

 

[JudgeJudi]

I can't tell you how these kinds of murders effect even the most seasoned LE officials. I have seen other's have to take a breath or get it under control as they did a presser about a murder or some heinous crime. They are human, until you are there, face to face with such horrible evil and what is done, you can't judge that. You never forget it either.

DC is an emotional man who wears his heart on his sleeve. You may like to watch this short (2:46) video where he attends the funeral of an officer who died in the line of duty and addresses the wife and daughter. You can hear the emotion in his voice just like the April 2019 presser when he spoke to the killer directly.

 

[MistyWaters]

Nope...not tearing it apart at all. I am 1000% in agreement with you.
When TL first said, no threat to the community, I felt they knew or had idea who it was and why no threat.
Targeted, IMO, yes...again that is why no threat.
LE keeps saying they just need that ONE piece of the puzzle and IMO, that is someone who has provided an alibi or suspects a family member, to come forward.
JMO

If TL knew or had an idea who it was and why no threat immediately following the murders....then five months later the release of one sketch, then the New Direction and another sketch twenty-one months after that, then another twenty-two months passed totalling four years and still no arrest - throughout the entire time LE has consistently asking for tips to aid in the identification of the killer —- do you still think after all this time TL knew or had an idea?

The missing piece of the puzzle is his identity.
BBM

Delphi murders update 2019: What we know about unsolved killings
“Even though no arrests have been made, Carter said he believes "we're one piece of the puzzle away from figuring out who this individual is."

"Somebody out there knows who this person is," he said. "I don't think there's multiple pieces of the puzzle. ... I think there's one piece. And it's having one individual with the strength to say that was my brother, that's my dad, or that's my cousin, that's my neighbor, my co-worker. And I think we're one piece away — one piece."

 

[DevilDog31]

I hope they catch BG soon. This has devastated Delphi. Although I don't live there anymore, I grew up there and still have family there. It is just sad what this tragedy has done to this small, quiet town. It just isn't the same. Im hoping that they will release more information that will then lead to locating BG which will allow the town to move on. I watched the series by HLN and felt that they portrayed Delphi correctly. For those of you not from a little town, things are done differently. I remember someone commenting in another post that the clothing BG was wearing would only be worn by an older man. Incorrect, not in this town. Even friend in High School would dress like that when I was there. Thats how this town works. For the most part no one cares about what they dress like. Just a nice peaceful town until this happened. Keep searching for justice because those girls, there families and the town deserves it.

 

[Spartygirl]

If TL knew or had an idea who it was and why no threat immediately following the murders....then five months later the release of one sketch, then the New Direction and another sketch twenty-one months after that, then another twenty-two months passed totalling four years and still no arrest - throughout the entire time LE has consistently asking for tips to aid in the identification leading of the killer —- do you still think after all this time TL still knows or has an idea?

TL also said he knows that voice "
At 1:00 into the video Sheriff Tobe Leazenby says he knows the voice, but just can’t put a name with the voice.
YouTube
Possibly he does think he knows, just cant prove it.

 

[mpnola]

Looking over some CNN transcripts. On February 20, 2017 on the Prime Time Justice Show with Ashleigh Banfield....Jean Casarez filling in hosting that night. Her panel of people included Sheriff Tobe Leazenby. The conversation with the Sheriff led into the host bringing up the following...

CASAREZ: "Of course. You know, Jonna, they executed a search warrant Thursday [Feb.16th] night right before the show started at a home in Delphi.

They were looking at the grass area around the home. They say nothing of evidentiary value came from that. But to search the grass surrounding the home shows they believe there were things missing from the crime scene, right?"

JONNA SPILBOR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: "Perhaps, or were they searching for a particular footprint that was going to match a footprint near the scene?"

CNN.com - Transcripts

I'd never heard about that at the time, LE seen checking the lawn during that search.

Then on February 22, 2017, "evidence" was photographed in a plastic bag containing boots, by ABC-7's Alexis McAdams and posted but never clarified where the pucture was taken. Just a curious thing...Feb 22, 2017 was also the day there was a bomb threat at the Indiana Meat Packing Plant in Delphi.

https://mobile.twitter.com/alexismcadamstv/status/834521628419710989?lang=en

I wonder if the killer did leave foot prints down by the creek somewhere. Any other ideas as to why LE would be checking the lawn surrounding a home while investigating the Delphi murders two days after the girls were found?

So, I've been following since they were missing. When they were found, it was reported that there were footprints near the water that led them to the location. I mentioned how much info will be gotten from that! Shoe size. Which direction. Type of shoes. Maybe even weight, due to impression depth..... then, silence. It wasn't talked about any more. The info was in a news article. Not Facebook rumor. I have tried to look at my old posts, but I couldn't get that far back. So, yes. There was definitely footprints reported at/ near the scene, early on.

 

[JudgeJudi]

That’s extremely interesting. I only know a culvert to be constructed out of some sort of material, usually metal and round.

Was there a culvert underneath the dirt road, the road that became a dead end driveway??? Or underneath the rail bed and/or bridge???

Culvert is a tunnel carrying a stream under a road or railway. A culvert may act as a bridge for traffic to pass on it. They are typically found in a natural flow of water and serves the purpose of a bridge or a current flow controller.

Culvert is provided under roads and highways for a crossing of water, as road embankment cannot be allowed to obstruct the water flow. The culvert is ideally suited for a road to limit water flow in a controlled way.

What is a Culvert? - Definition - Materials - Location - Civil Engineering

This is one of many images shown in the link:

 

[MistyWaters]

Culvert is a tunnel carrying a stream under a road or railway. A culvert may act as a bridge for traffic to pass on it. They are typically found in a natural flow of water and serves the purpose of a bridge or a current flow controller.

Culvert is provided under roads and highways for a crossing of water, as road embankment cannot be allowed to obstruct the water flow. The culvert is ideally suited for a road to limit water flow in a controlled way.

What is a Culvert? - Definition - Materials - Location - Civil Engineering

This is one of many images shown in the link:

View attachment 285162

Yes thanks, I’m very familiar with what a culvert is. They’re very common in rural areas to direct water movement during rainfall and springtime melt, to prevent flooding and washing out of roads and bridges.

But is it a fact the bodies were found in a culvert? If so, there’s no reason for a culvert to be constructed on the hillside area appx 60 feet from the creek, the generally accepted location were its believed they were found, as water always flows downhill. And thinking back, the only reason I recall the media settled on that location was because some crime scene tape was left there. I don’t remember LE mentioning anything other than the distance.

Is this what LE meant by “getting it wrong”?

 

[TTF14]

I think "culvert" is a misnomer with regard to what was reported in this case.

Yes thanks, I know what a culvert is. They’re very common in rural areas to direct water during rainfall and springtime melt

But is it a fact the bodies found in a culvert? If so, there’s no reason for a culvert to be installed on the hillside area appx 60 feet from the creek, the location where it’s become generally accepted they were found.

 

[MistyWaters]

This - BBM

“And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”..”
Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

 

[JudgeJudi]

But is it a fact the bodies found in a culvert? If so, there’s no reason for a culvert to be installed on the hillside area appx 60 feet from the creek, the location where it’s become generally accepted they were found.

This is the first time I've heard their bodies were found in a culvert. I agree that the generally accepted location is probably the correct site.