Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #129

[Yemelyan]

TL also said he knows that voice "
At 1:00 into the video Sheriff Tobe Leazenby says he knows the voice, but just can’t put a name with the voice.
YouTube
Possibly he does think he knows, just cant prove it.

As of a few days ago, TL told the Carroll County Comet that he still doesn't know who the voice belongs to, though it still seems familiar. Here's the relevant quote from that article:

Q. You have said you recognize the voice on the video. Do you recognize it as a jail inmate, other law enforcement team or person you know outside your employment sphere?

A. I still have not been able to pin it down. In my 30+ year career or even, as with most of us, we have heard certain voices but have difficulty in recalling exactly who it is.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think "culvert" is a misnomer with regard to what was reported in this case.

The source appears to be a DTH podcast. I earlier linked another WS comment from Feb/20 regarding “a culvert” and a DTH podcast, so it’s either a DTH repeat or the word was mentioned twice.

How can we know it’s a misnomer? I’m certain folks from rural Indiana would certainly know what a culvert is so I’m curious who made this statement on the podcast.

I listened to the Down the Hill podcast this morning and they mentioned the girls were found in a culvert. What does this mean exactly?
noun

1. a tunnel carrying a stream or open drain under a road or railroad.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is the first time I've heard their bodies were found in a culvert. I agree that the generally accepted location is probably the correct site.

Yes it probably is. Or....do we really know what we think we know?

For sure neither LE nor the family have pinpointed the location that .i can remember. How I recall it, RL led reporters down the hill to where crime scene tape had been left tied to trees and to my best recollection from then on that became the official discovery site.

What other confirmation of the discovery location do we know of?

 

[Ekliptika]

In one of the podcasts, can’t remember if it was DTH or SOTC they mention that the girls were found in a ravine. I had to look up that Word as I am not native english speaker.
If I understand correctly a ravine is sort of a natural ditch/gorge that is formed when water runs Down a hill. When looking at Maps of the area there are a couple of lagrer ravines in the area, but it could also be a smaller one.
Are you suggesting that there is a man build culvert in the area where the girls were found?

Yes it probably is. Or....do we really know what we think we know?

For sure neither LE nor the family have pinpointed the location that .i can remember. How I recall it, RL led reporters down the hill to where crime scene tape had been left tied to trees and to my best recollection from then on that became the official discovery site.

What other confirmation of the discovery location do we know of?

 

[Boxer]

As of a few days ago, TL told the Carroll County Comet that he still doesn't know who the voice belongs to, though it still seems familiar. Here's the relevant quote from that article:

Q. You have said you recognize the voice on the video. Do you recognize it as a jail inmate, other law enforcement team or person you know outside your employment sphere?

A. I still have not been able to pin it down. In my 30+ year career or even, as with most of us, we have heard certain voices but have difficulty in recalling exactly who it is.

MOO like the two drawings of the suspect which all the males in the area seem to fit, I think the voice TL feels he heard before is a type of local voice, a shared genetic voice shape, like the drawing.
MOO If it were an exact person's voice, I think by now TL would have woken one night with a start just knowing who it was his memory matched the voice to.

 

[Angels27]

Also I wish Indiana residents would reach out to their Senators, Representatives and Governor and demand DNA laws to find perps and prosecute them. I’m kind of old but for Pete’s sake get with the times. There is no excuse. These murders matter and when will we experience similar? MOO

Can LE test DNA without a POIs knowledge? Like during search warrant take out a toothbrush or hairbrush and get it tested?

 

[Angels27]

I have to say that I believe that LE knows who did it. DC is so sure about "you want to know what we know, and one day you will". I think DC knows that this will happen. It is only a matter of time. Just as a poster said, they are just waiting for the case to be air tight. At that point, charges and a case will come. I believe!

Yeah, DC said he’s waiting for “improvements in technology.” Maybe that means a clearer image of face or maybe it means more people entered into familial DNA database. In that state can LE test a POIs DNA under the radar without their knowledge or consent if they aren’t an official suspect? Not to necessarily use in court but just for their own knowledge

 

[Angels27]

MOO like the two drawings of the suspect which all the males in the area seem to fit. I think the voice TL feels he heard before is a type of local voice, a shared genetic voice shape, like the drawing.
MOO If it were an exact person's voice, I think by now TL would have woken one night with a start just knowing who it was his memory matched the voice to.

When they asked DC if he thinks they've interviewed the killer already he said, probably, or someone close to them. And when asked if he really thought perp was at PC he said, I think so, or close by.

 

[Boxer]

When they asked DC if he thinks they've interviewed the killer already he said, probably, or someone close to them. And when asked if he really thought perp was at PC he said, I think so, or close by.

Then I really hope they had a voice sample from everyone they interviewed for TL to review.

 

[MsBetsy]

Can LE test DNA without a POIs knowledge? Like during search warrant take out a toothbrush or hairbrush and get it tested?

As long as they can convince a judge that there is probable cause that person committed a crime, I think they can. Otherwise they can try to get DNA from something a suspect has discarded in a public place or in their garbage, like they did with DeAngelo. Imo

 

[Deleted member 102539]

MOO If it were an exact person's voice, I think by now TL would have woken one night with a start just knowing who it was his memory matched the voice to.

I think, it dawned on him already, but he would be a fool to admit to it, with regard to the investigation. IMO

 

[TL4S]

Yes it probably is. Or....do we really know what we think we know?

For sure neither LE nor the family have pinpointed the location that .i can remember. How I recall it, RL led reporters down the hill to where crime scene tape had been left tied to trees and to my best recollection from then on that became the official discovery site.

What other confirmation of the discovery location do we know of?

I seem to recall Riley talking somewhere about standing on the ridge (maybe the one behind the cemetary, where all the LE vehicles parked?) and looking down on their bodies, feeling sad. Does anyone know the source to see if the actual quote might help specify the location?

And Kelsi's interviews about the moment they found the girls. She was standing on the road underneath the bridge and the searchers were below. I think she said they looked across the creek and saw them. For that story to make sense, is there a culvert anywhere in the area at all?

Also, would that old helicopter footage from the day they found the bodies have anything?

 

[Skully]

At this juncture, we don't know much as fact. The spur of the moment decision may have been just that, or may not.

You have experience, I've read your posts, and appreciate them greatly! We just don't know what happened that day. Sure, we have wee clues, but we don't even know what end of the bridge BG entered upon. We don't know what the CS looked like. We don't know much at all.

People do crazy stuff. For stupid reasons. We either have a serial killer here, or a budding serial killer, or what? If not a serial killer, then what do we have? Somebody that was out for a one and done murder of two girls? Somebody that had no motive? Somebody that didn't know these girls, he just was having a bad day? Somebody that wasn't offended, or upset, or angry at them, or had something to hide? He just went and did two brutal murders, and that's that?

Take this case, that happened near me. Over $40. When you mix some gang stuff, some meth, some bikers, and who knows what else, it can get real crazy, real quick.

More charges filed against Carroll County suspects in slayings of Taneytown man and witnesses

Thank you for the vote of confidence, LOL I come here to this case because I can't post about any cases I am currently working or familiar with. I like to read here, because there are some good ideas and I can look at other cases and see if that is some thing I can apply or suggest to others to help our cases. I have used some things that I learned here. People think that LE working these cases know everything, they don't. Some know about DNA better than others, and some are great at writing subpoenas and getting a Judge to sign off on them without having to go back and fix stuff. You have to work as a team. Everyone adds something to the case. And everyone doesn't agree about all the time, and you have to let people run with what they think until you rule something out. I always say if you think you are the smartest person in the room, then go to a bigger room, you aren't learning anything.

I understand that people kill over trivial crap, we have that too. I have seen people murdered over an article of clothing. Not kidding. But in this case, I think he was on the hunt. I think he most likely went to other places prepared, not just there and waited. But I do think he either fantasied about this, or has killed before, because of all the brazen acts he took in these murders. I could be wrong, but I think he just hasn't gotten caught because in the Video in post 814 (thank you) they brought up VICAP and I posted about that before, not everyone puts the cases in. I do believe there may be one signature he used, that would line up with someone's case, but if it's not in, you can't compare it. Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

[Ekliptika]

I seem to recall Riley talking somewhere about standing on the ridge (maybe the one behind the cemetary, where all the LE vehicles parked?) and looking down on their bodies, feeling sad. Does anyone know the source to see if the actual quote might help specify the location?

And Kelsi's interviews about the moment they found the girls. She was standing on the road underneath the bridge and the searchers were below. I think she said they looked across the creek and saw them. For that story to make sense, is there a culvert anywhere in the area at all?

Also, would that old helicopter footage from the day they found the bodies have anything?

I Think it is in one of the podcasts DTH or SOTC that Riley is asked something like if he saw the bodies (I can’t remember exact wording) and then he replies that he saw them from a distance, looking down from the ridge.
Regarding the helicopter footage, I red sonewhere that what you Can see on YT is an edited version. There are parts that has been taken out, but it could be that there is a hint in there about where they were found.

 

[Ekliptika]

Then I really hope they had a voice sample from everyone they interviewed for TL to review.

I have not been following this case since the beginning and Got surprised whenI learned the other day that the initial Down the Hill command released was very blurry/mumbling/difficult to hear. Only later was the sound cleaned up better, so Down the Hill could be heard more clear. That made me wonder how close the voice we hear on the Sound recording is to his real voice, also taken into account the difference in the voice between guys and Down the hill.

 

[FrostedGlass]

What have you noticed LE has said indicating they believe the girls were taken to some sort of shack to support your theory? To the contrary, this is not the first time LE has confirmed they believe the girls were killed where they were found. It gets confusing to WS members who are newer to the case if we all just go our own way, ignoring the few facts that are known.

On the topic of the culvert -
Does anyone know, was it LE who stated the bodies were found in a culvert or is this speculation by somebody not directly connected to the investigation? Was it stated (as fact) again just recently? It was talked about last year at this time, connected to a DTH podcast. I do recall LE confirming the distance away from the river where the girls were found but that’s about it. If it is fact based, is this why LE stated none of the youtube re-creation videos are correct, nor the news, something like that (my wording).

Post #1108 Feb 26,2020
Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

What I posted was in answer to a person who had asked a question. Carter, himself, brought up the shack by way of a movie. However, if it was something else, it could be a hint to the killer when Carter says: You want to know what we know. To be clear, it's not my theory... it's just another way that it could have played out.

Now, the culvert/ravine thing is not my theory, either; but there is a culvert that runs under the road that empties into what appears to be a ravine. It's on the right side of the south end of the bridge. It appears that the run-off begins in the farmers field, runs down the hill and into the culvert. There's also a red barn and a deer stand. This is all in Julie M's video 1 Retracing Libby and Abby's steps across the Monon Bridge. It's posted here already. If anyone can't find/ the video, I can post a screen cap of it.

 

[TL4S]

I Think it is in one of the podcasts DTH or SOTC that Riley is asked something like if he saw the bodies (I can’t remember exact wording) and then he replies that he saw them from a distance, looking down from the ridge.
Regarding the helicopter footage, I red sonewhere that what you Can see on YT is an edited version. There are parts that has been taken out, but it could be that there is a hint in there about where they were found.

Here is the article with the helicopter footage at the bottom. I don't know if it's complete.

*NOTE: As not to cause confusion for the newcomers of the case, this is very early after the girls were found and the map with the location of their bodies is much different than what we see anywhere else. I DO NOT mean this as a representative of where they were found. We do not know the accuracy of this article. I linked it for the helicopter footage only.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...07.2145477666.1613826310-536975449.1613826310

 

[FrostedGlass]

In DTH #6, they were discussing the search parties and He (is it Ives?) estimated 1,000 people. She asked: With so many people looking for them that first night, why weren't they found? He answered: Uhhmm, I think I'll leave that question unanswered. I thought: Why on earth would you say that???

There were a number of answers to that question: They were thought to be with friends, it was too dark to see much in the woods, searchers didn't think they would be in that area, etc.
Instead, he left that completely open to speculation. He could have given a truthful answer that people would have accepted but instead, all he did was fog it up.

 

[JudgeJudi]

What's the citation for this quote? Which member of LE said it and when?

If I recall correctly, the Delphi Police chief deflected a question from the press about the community being in danger on the day the girls were found by saying people in Delphi are smart enough to know what to do. The Carroll County Sheriff has said that he doesn't want people in the county to live their lives in fear, constantly looking over their shoulders. To be honest I feel that these non-answers were aimed more at preventing hysteria or vigilanteeism in the community than speaking to the actual danger that existed.

Contrast this to these statements which kind of paint a different picture - these span the time period from immediately after the bodies were found up until the three year mark:

"Be cautious and careful and be parents...know where your children are and what they are doing."

ISP: Delphi Amber Alert wouldn't have helped

Detective Kevin Hammond: "Things have changed for us all...I am more vigilant with my own children since this happened."
The best of humanity in the worst of times | Carroll County Comet/

Interviewer: "This community has never had a double homicide, Sergeant, from what I understand, and it has been years that Delphi, a community of 3000, has ever had a murder. What do you say to this community tonight because a...killer is on the loose, a double murderer?"

Sgt. Riley: "Well, we tell people, like we've been telling people since this has all started, you need to be safe out there. We are working 24/7 to try to solve this horrendous crime."

CNN.com - Transcripts

Three Years Later: Everything we know about the murders of Libby German & Abby Williams in Delphi
“I can’t say there’s not a threat to the community,” Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley told RTV6 at the time. "We have not caught the person yet. Is the person still in the community? We don’t know.”

The following was published the day the girls' bodies were found and drew the most ire from posters:

When asked if people in the community should be afraid right now based upon what you’ve seen, Police Chief Steve Mullins said, "I think people in the community are smart enough in our community to draw their own conclusions about what they should feel and shouldn't feel". Our people are very smart. We have a very good community and they are very strong. And they are able to draw their own conclusions about this whole situation, I think, very successfully.”

The journalist then said that the reason he asked if the community should be afraid now that foul play is suspected, people might be wondering if there’s somebody going around the community preying on people that they need be afraid of. The Police Chief repeats that people can draw their own conclusions about the situation and they’re smart enough to figure out what the situation warrants them to think.

Two bodies found during search for missing teens, autopsies scheduled for Wednesday morning | WTTV CBS4Indy

The comment "Be cautious and careful and be parents...know where your children are and what they are doing." would have been far more appropriate in the immediate aftermath of the murders IMO.

 

[Thelastleg]

Here is the article with the helicopter footage at the bottom. I don't know if it's complete.

*NOTE: As not to cause confusion for the newcomers of the case, this is very early after the girls were found and the map with the location of their bodies is much different than what we see anywhere else. I DO NOT mean this as a representative of where they were found. We do not know the accuracy of this article. I linked it for the helicopter footage only.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...07.2145477666.1613826310-536975449.1613826310

At around 13 mins you can see the crime scene tape looped around the trees. On thread #110 post 62 from @fallingdown there are photos of the old gravel pit. I think this is what someone has referred to as a culvert