If victims are covered or attempts are made to hide their bodies, wouldn’t the typical reason be to delay discovery of the crime? The longer that time passes, the more difficult it becomes for forensic teams to gather “fresh” evidence and witnesses to recall precise details.
Hiding a body isn’t really “staging” in the true sense, as it’s not done to misdirect an investigation into mistaking the manner of death (ie an accident occurred instead of murder). Typically hiding a body simply conceals a homicide from being discovered quickly.
If there were attempts were made to implicate an innocent person, LE has never said but if that were so, it was unsuccessful as nobody has been charged. But that’s a great example why I doubt any suspect would be charged solely on DNA or identifiable items found near a crime scene in an outdoor publicly accessible area that was also unfenced. Because it doesn’t prove beyond reasonable doubt that same person was responsible for committing the murders. The path from the cemetery along RL’s land looked fairly well worn iirc suggesting the crime scene location was near a short cut to the bridge used by others from time to time. JMO
“According to Douglas and Munn, staging materializes when someone purposefully alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of the police in order to either redirect the investigation away from the most logical suspect or to protect the victim or the victim’s family (Douglas and Munn 1992). Staging is attained by altering physical evidence at the scene after and at times before the homicide in order to present a misleading appearance of the crime scene. It imitates a ‘legitimate death’ scenario or a disappearance of the victim (Chisum and Turvey 2011; Pettler 2016). Staging is thus a primary means of purposefully obstructing the criminal justice process by concealing the true nature of a crime (Hazelwood and Napier 2004: 745; Cobin 2009: 1).”If victims are covered or attempts are made to hide their bodies, wouldn’t the typical reason be to delay discovery of the crime? The longer that time passes, the more difficult it becomes for forensic teams to gather “fresh” evidence and witnesses to recall precise details.
Hiding a body isn’t really “staging” in the true sense, as it’s not done to misdirect an investigation into mistaking the manner of death (ie an accident occurred instead of murder). Typically hiding a body simply conceals a homicide from being discovered quickly.
If there were attempts were made to implicate an innocent person, LE has never said but if that were so, it was unsuccessful as nobody has been charged. But that’s a great example why I doubt any suspect would be charged solely on DNA or identifiable items found near a crime scene in an outdoor publicly accessible area that was also unfenced. Because it doesn’t prove beyond reasonable doubt that same person was responsible for committing the murders. The path from the cemetery along RL’s land looked fairly well worn iirc suggesting the crime scene location was near a short cut to the bridge used by others from time to time. JMO
I found in this same article something that former FBI agent O’toole said that staging is usually done by someone that knows the victims.“According to Douglas and Munn, staging materializes when someone purposefully alters the crime scene prior to the arrival of the police in order to either redirect the investigation away from the most logical suspect or to protect the victim or the victim’s family (Douglas and Munn 1992). Staging is attained by altering physical evidence at the scene after and at times before the homicide in order to present a misleading appearance of the crime scene. It imitates a ‘legitimate death’ scenario or a disappearance of the victim (Chisum and Turvey 2011; Pettler 2016). Staging is thus a primary means of purposefully obstructing the criminal justice process by concealing the true nature of a crime (Hazelwood and Napier 2004: 745; Cobin 2009: 1).”
Yifat Bitton, Hava Dayan, ‘The Perfect Murder’: An Exploratory Study of Staged Murder Scenes and Concealed Femicide, The British Journal of Criminology, Volume 59, Issue 5, September 2019, Pages 1054–1075, ‘The Perfect Murder’: An Exploratory Study of Staged Murder Scenes and Concealed Femicide
What astute & sharp hearing you have! ::clapping::I can definitely make out a scream. One of the girls screamed “oh my God” between “Guys” and “down the hill”. It is garbled but I can still hear it.
If victims are covered or attempts are made to hide their bodies, wouldn’t the typical reason be to delay discovery of the crime? The longer that time passes, the more difficult it becomes for forensic teams to gather “fresh” evidence and witnesses to recall precise details.
Hiding a body isn’t really “staging” in the true sense, as it’s not done to misdirect an investigation into mistaking the manner of death (ie an accident occurred instead of murder). Typically hiding a body simply conceals a homicide from being discovered quickly.
If there were attempts were made to implicate an innocent person, LE has never said but if that were so, it was unsuccessful as nobody has been charged. But that’s a great example why I doubt any suspect would be charged solely on DNA or identifiable items found near a crime scene in an outdoor publicly accessible area that was also unfenced. Because it doesn’t prove beyond reasonable doubt that same person was responsible for committing the murders. The path from the cemetery along RL’s land looked fairly well worn iirc suggesting the crime scene location was near a short cut to the bridge used by others from time to time. JMO
If there was nothing between those words.. "Guys and down the hill".. why did LE find it necessary to put that sound like breaking glass in between the "Guys.. and down the hill?"
I'm new here, so this has probably been discussed thoroughly already, but I also have an opinion about the audio file. Imagine BG is someone that is tangentially connected to the two girls, as in they might recognize him to some extent, and he they, although they probably don't know each others names. His face is just somewhat recognizable as an adult they have seen before, perhaps in some position of authority (relative authority, at least in the eyes of a young girl).
BG approaches the girls on the bridge and plays into that role. He tells them "Guys" almost as if he is disappointed in them that he found them on the bridge, somewhere they are not supposed to be. He then points towards where he wants them to go and tells them "down the hill," and they comply because they think they are just being directed off the bridge.
I do think that BG had a gun, but I think that this is a more likely scenario for how he got them off of the bridge than him coercing them at gunpoint, just because of how visible they would be out on the bridge.
The way I understood it, hiding bodies was different than covering them. Covering seemed to mean with a blanket or other clothing. Hiding seems to mean more like... dumping them somewhere else, or concealing them in a cave, or in a lake etc.... Covering the victim's bodies, changing their clothes, washing bodies... these were listed specifically as examples of "undoing" which they related to signs of remorse.
I also understand from reading the transcripts of DTH podcast that Sgt Riley noted she stood about 300 feet away from the bodies and on a ridge of sorts. She noted she could look down and see the bodies just laying there. Loosely paraphrased. If indeed one could see the bodies just laying there from 300 feet away, then I'd surmise they weren't really "hidden". If they were covered, that might be an indicator of remorse in this case, but not an attempt to "hide" them. Hope I've made sense.
Not that it matters a ton but just FYI...Sgt. Kim Riley is actually a he, not a she.
I found in this same article something that former FBI agent O’toole said that staging is usually done by someone that knows the victims.
Makes sense. I've not heard the podcasts, I've only read the transcripts. I much prefer to read than watch videos / listen to podcasts.
Great idea at @sunshineray I am looking for a map or good picture of the bridges structure. If I go back to the very first page of this discussion there is a map? Under what title, do you know? I’m having a hard time finding itGo back to the first page of this discussion, then check out the map page. There are pictures and videos that show the bridge.
Email is the preferred way to send tips to help solve this crime.
Anyone with information about this case is encouraged to send tips to this email address: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com
Information sent by email is kept confidential and is only shared with investigators. The telephone Tip Line is (844) 459-5786. Tips are also accepted by the Indiana State Police at (800) 382-7537, or by the Carroll County Sheriff’s Department at (765) 564-2413.
Tip Information Contacts
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Tip Line: (844) 459-5786
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ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation
Prosecutors are looking for specific information in tips, including the name of the suspect or person of interest; a detailed description and personal identifiers, such as tattoos or birthmarks; age or birth date; last known address or place where the person is often seen; and lastly, their possible motivation and connection to the case.
Great idea at @sunshineray I am looking for a map or good picture of the bridges structure. If I go back to the very first page of this discussion there is a map? Under what title, do you know? I’m having a hard time finding it
From the many books I’ve read by profilers, covering the body can mean as you said hiding it so it’s not easily seen. The perpetrator will also cover a body so they can’t see what they had just done. In covering the body, the perpetrator may feel remorse or they feel some type of shame, possibly an afterthought after they come out of the frenzied like haze they had been in while committing the crime. All of this is JMO.
I was just thinking that what would be the most helpful for me to help further differentiate BG gait pattern from others walking on uneven surfaces would be if any one has a video of themselves or someone they know walking on the Monon High Bridge?
I just noticed in PC 2019 Sheriff TL is obviously there for DC’s safety. Notice how on high alert/ on guard TL looks and how close he is standing to him. I think they really thought the perp might be there. Also NOTICED TL starring intently at one place in the crowd. We cannot see the crowd in version I just watched, but he is clearly fixed on one person there and he continues to look away back at DC as to not make it look so obvious, imo. Then his eyes go right back to that same spot, about eye level of where an adult would be sitting. I think he is looking for a reaction from someone in that room. Do any locals know if everyone was searched and/or went thru a metal detector before entering that PC? TLs eye are definitely fixed on ONE particular point in that room. If they were smart they wired that room to the hilt to monitor every possible reaction.
2. I feel so sorry for TL, who early on took heat online. In my own mind I ruled him out immediately based on a unique linguist trait he has, that BG does not. Also imo he seems like a stand-up guy. I couldn’t have taken the accusations with such grace.