Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #132

[SouthernMom]

As time goes by, it’s remarkable to me that the case in Evansdale and the case in Delphi share one more thing in common. The perpetrators have not been caught. It seems hard to believe that there could be TWO separate perpetrators who both got away with the same type of horrific crime. No one in their social circles seems to suspect or if they do, they have not come forward.

 

[SouthernMom]

DBM...duplicate

 

[MistyWaters]

This is what I recall, RL talking about his son -

Just after 2:00. “This is terrible you know I just can’t imagine it. My son when he was a kid, he and his buddies played out here......”

 

[TL4S]

So, where did the "below the cemetery" come from? I assumed the location was directly below it but, after looking at pics, videos, etc., I believe it's in the area of MistyWaters' map. Kyle Keener took a pic of the detective examining the creek bank (where people thought they saw a footprint). I think the crime scene began a short distance west of where he was and went east.

Snipped and bolded for focus:

Here's my issue with the CS being inside the red circle area of that map. If you look on beacon, almost everything within 50 feet of the creek bank (the distance from the water that LE said the girls were found) is not labeled as RL's property. That small crescent area is not designated with ownership on beacon, which is the same as the waterways and roads in town, which leads me to conclude it is township, county, or state property.

RL's property does include creek bank in the area south of the cemetery, and then again to the east, near the beach-like area on the north side of the creek. Now, that being said, I don't know if this has changed since the crimes, whereas maybe RL did own that land at the time of the murders. I just don't have that information.

Map: everything outlined in yellow is RL's property.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Snipped and bolded for focus:

Here's my issue with the CS being inside the red circle area of that map. If you look on beacon, almost everything within 50 feet of the creek bank (the distance from the water that LE said the girls were found) is not labeled as RL's property. That small crescent area is not designated with ownership on beacon, which is the same as the waterways and roads in town, which leads me to conclude it is township, county, or state property.

RL's property does include creek bank in the area south of the cemetery, and then again to the east, near the beach-like area on the north side of the creek. Now, that being said, I don't know if this has changed since the crimes, whereas maybe RL did own that land at the time of the murders. I just don't have that information.

Map: everything outlined in yellow is RL's property.

We discussed that in the beginning and I seem to remember one of our members thinking the boundary had been changed sometime after the murders. All the rest of the neighbors seem to share creek ownership so it's a bit odd to me that he doesn't.

RL had that reverse mortgage on his house and was possibly in jeopardy of losing it when he was sent to prison. RMs require the property to be occupied but maybe the bank made an exception. That aside, if the bank would have taken the property back, the crime scene would have gone back, too. IMO.

Did we ever see how big the crime scene was estimated to be?

 

[MistyWaters]

Snipped and bolded for focus:

Here's my issue with the CS being inside the red circle area of that map. If you look on beacon, almost everything within 50 feet of the creek bank (the distance from the water that LE said the girls were found) is not labeled as RL's property. That small crescent area is not designated with ownership on beacon, which is the same as the waterways and roads in town, which leads me to conclude it is township, county, or state property.

RL's property does include creek bank in the area south of the cemetery, and then again to the east, near the beach-like area on the north side of the creek. Now, that being said, I don't know if this has changed since the crimes, whereas maybe RL did own that land at the time of the murders. I just don't have that information.

Map: everything outlined in yellow is RL's property.

It really difficult and time consuming to retrace sleuthing by other members over the past four years and 100+ threads but way back iirc that strip of land indeed had been turned over the RL from Carroll County, as indicated by searching county records. I recall being truly amazed at the dedication those same members put forth searching for factual information and unfortunately it’s now hard to find. I recall another member locating and posting a topography map of the Deer Creek area that was very insightful as well, contrary to google which makes it all appear flat. It revealed what was referred to back the as the bowl-shaped area where the bodies were believed to have been found (same as my red circle) but a much broader bowl-shape than one specific spot.

IIRC the land transfer was also the reason for a theory of the moment, that the girls were murdered there as a sort of retaliation for the land having been turned over to RL. JMM (just my memory)

 

[MistyWaters]

We discussed that in the beginning and I seem to remember one of our members thinking the boundary had been changed sometime after the murders. All the rest of the neighbors seem to share creek ownership so it's a bit odd to me that he doesn't.

RL had that reverse mortgage on his house and was possibly in jeopardy of losing it when he was sent to prison. RMs require the property to be occupied but maybe the bank made an exception. That aside, if the bank would have taken the property back, the crime scene would have gone back, too. IMO.

Did we ever see how big the crime scene was estimated to be?

It seems the crime scene began at the bridge considering the comment by LE referring to Libby’s video of the suspect “taken just before the criminal act was about to occur”. Other than that and the appx 1/2 mile distance upsteam from the bridge where the bodies were found, it seems to me LE and everyone directly connected have been very careful to not disclose the actual site along with other specific details. IMO it’s likely a good example of the public doesn’t need to know that information in order to aid in identifying the killer, protecting the integrity of the investigation.

 

[TL4S]

It really difficult and time consuming to retrace sleuthing by other members over the past four years and 100+ threads but way back iirc that strip of land indeed had been turned over the RL from Carroll County, as indicated by searching county records. I recall being truly amazed at the dedication those same members put forth searching for factual information and unfortunately it’s now hard to find. I recall another member locating and posting a topography map of the Deer Creek area that was very insightful as well, contrary to google which makes it all appear flat. It revealed what was referred to back the as the bowl-shaped area where the bodies were believed to have been found (same as my red circle) but a much broader bowl-shape than one specific spot.

IIRC the land transfer was also the reason for a theory of the moment, that the girls were murdered there as a sort of retaliation for the land having been turned over to RL. JMM (just my memory)

I wonder how accurate this statement is in regards to the final crime scene and/or how the Beacon map is depicted? I wish I had access to better records...

Ron Logan has owned that piece of land for 53 years and said that the discovery of the girls’ bodies on his property is something he still hasn’t been able to come to terms with.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...c7dce0e&_ga=1.136436528.1295424310.1489771536

 

[TL4S]

IIRC RL called the Sheriff at some point because someone was camping out in one of his sheds.

2014

Police Calls | Carroll County Comet

April 26, 9:49 p.m. – Burglary, 5858W. 300N., Delphi. Ron Logan reported finding a person in his barn who was not authorized to be there. The unidentified person fled the barn prior to police arrival. The suspect was not located. Liggett investigated.

 

[Boxer]

Why the focus on his walk. Posture, hands, way his pants crease.

I thought it involved something about theft from his barn? But I’m sure it occurred long before the murders, years even. It was noticed in a police report log.

True. What I am thinking is that men hanging around an area may naturally gravitate to a shed to stand on the leeward side. Finding that loitering area can render evidence.

 

[TL4S]

Did we ever see how big the crime scene was estimated to be?

Somewhere DC said something about the crime scene beginning at the trailhead, iirc. I don't recall which podcast that was in. And then there's this:

Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies | Fox 59
Officials searched every inch of Logan’s 40 acres and the woods behind the nearby Morning Heights Cemetery which is just across the stream from the Monon High Bridge, the last spot the girls were seen.

That's a huge amount of outdoor space to search. Imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder how accurate this statement is in regards to the final crime scene and/or how the Beacon map is depicted? I wish I had access to better records...

Ron Logan has owned that piece of land for 53 years and said that the discovery of the girls’ bodies on his property is something he still hasn’t been able to come to terms with.

https://www.wrtv.com/news/local-new...c7dce0e&_ga=1.136436528.1295424310.1489771536

At one time he referred to the location as his “backyard”! He clearly got caught up in the media attention early on.

I don’t think RL knows exactly where the bodies were found, nor do we. RL certainly would’ve been prevented from accessing (ie watching) while the crime scene area was being processed.

 

[Yemelyan]

As time goes by, it’s remarkable to me that the case in Evansdale and the case in Delphi share one more thing in common. The perpetrators have not been caught. It seems hard to believe that there could be TWO separate perpetrators who both got away with the same type of horrific crime. No one in their social circles seems to suspect or if they do, they have not come forward.

You know what is really crazy, and it does inform our opinion of how "rare" Delphi was, is that close by in Iowa where the Evansdale murders took place, there was actually another offender who abducted pairs of girls, not once but twice (murdering once). And he was ruled out for Evansdale! So if you think it's weird that neither the Delphi or the Evansdale killer has been caught, and it makes you wonder if these two crimes 6 hours apart in distance and five years apart in time could be related, just remember there was an offender much closer to Evansdale who had the same MO and was operating in the same time period and he was turned out to be unrelated (he was also dead by the time Delphi happened).

So I'm not sure we should be looking at the Delphi crime through a lens which says "he planned to or needed to take two victims at the same time."

This JMO but is based on a conversation I had with a former LE officer who worked on child abduction /murders...he told me that offenders who prey on children are more interested in the overall lack of adult supervision at the moment and less about the exact appearance of the victim or any other victim-specific traits, including exact age. So an offender may have fantasized about abducting an 11 year old, for instance, but if he finds a "good" opportunity to take two five year olds instead, he will. Again, JMO about the opportunistic nature of this type of offender.

 

[Diddian]

2014

Police Calls | Carroll County Comet

April 26, 9:49 p.m. – Burglary, 5858W. 300N., Delphi. Ron Logan reported finding a person in his barn who was not authorized to be there. The unidentified person fled the barn prior to police arrival. The suspect was not located. Liggett investigated.

There's another police call to his place just the month before that one.

Police Calls | Carroll County Comet

March 31, 11:53 a.m. – Burglary, 5858W. 300N., Delphi. Ron Logan reported forced entry into his residence and property taken. Maj. Tobe Leazenby investigated.

 

[TL4S]

At one time he referred to the location as his “backyard”! He clearly got caught up in the media attention early on.

I don’t think RL knows exactly where the bodies were found, nor do we. RL certainly would’ve been prevented from accessing (ie watching) while the crime scene area was being processed.

I agree! He also referred to it happening in his house, his home, in that same article I posted. I'm sure that led to all sorts of speculations...

 

[Boxer]

Somewhere DC said something about the crime scene beginning at the trailhead, iirc. I don't recall which podcast that was in. And then there's this:

Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies | Fox 59
Officials searched every inch of Logan’s 40 acres and the woods behind the nearby Morning Heights Cemetery which is just across the stream from the Monon High Bridge, the last spot the girls were seen.

That's a huge amount of outdoor space to search. Imo.

Yes. Agree.
And forensics took the relevant forest floor with them. It's a huge task to test every possibly involved leaf.

 

[FrostedGlass]

At one time he referred to the location as his “backyard”! He clearly got caught up in the media attention early on.

I don’t think RL knows exactly where the bodies were found, nor do we. RL certainly would’ve been prevented from accessing (ie watching) while the crime scene area was being processed.

There are some flowers planted as a memorial in a spot, which one of the reporters took a small video of. RL claimed the members of one of the families planted them.

If I had known 4 years ago that we would still be mulling this over, I sure would have done a better job with all my notes and links.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Regarding the sandbar below the house at the end of the road, I see there is a ditch, which begins just a bit south of CR 200 (near PTI Machining) and empties into the creek on the east end of the house. I think the sandbar is probably ditch debris.

Those can be really big and I wonder if that one can make much of a difference to the water level.

Regarding the size of the crime scene, I though I read the taped off area was approximately 1/3 acre. I can't find that article...

 

[Ravenmoon]

I think they might have other audio with killer's voice interacting with the girl's but I don't think the murders were recorded.

TL said recently in an interview that the only recorded words of the killer are those released to the public.
It is possible that he said the only discernible words are those released to the public.

MOO JMO AMOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

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