Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #134

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
gravegemini said:
Sure, about 1:25 in on this Insider video, you can see he isn’t handcuffed.. which I’ve never seen before (especially for such a violent criminal) New Person of Interest in Case of Delphi Teen Girls Murdered in Woods

I know it’s quick, but his posture struck me right away as being similar to the few frames we have of BG.
Click to expand...

I've noticed differences in how jails here in IN handcuff and shackle people, since moving here 5 years ago. It varies, really. Varies from county to county.

JMO
 
minazoe said:
she could have been dragged because she was unconscious,

my best guess is she was knocked unconscious and was dragged a ways by her bound wrists.

or she was bound by hands and wrist and dragged. or she was dragged in the fight..dragged to the water etc.

mOO
Click to expand...
I'm just trying to fathom the reason. She was around 200 pounds. If she was bound and struggling against him it would be hard going. If she was unconcious or worse by then, it would be even harder to drag the weight. I guess what I'm wondering is what would be the reason to exert the energy invovled to drag her? And could it be one of the signatures? Could it involve posing? MOO.
 
gravegemini said:
Sure, about 1:25 in on this Insider video, you can see he isn’t handcuffed.. which I’ve never seen before (especially for such a violent criminal) New Person of Interest in Case of Delphi Teen Girls Murdered in Woods

I know it’s quick, but his posture struck me right away as being similar to the few frames we have of BG.
Click to expand...
Agree. Arms swing around his chest as he walks, he even looks like he is looking down picking his footing in the police station.
Why is he not handcuffed?
And so many warrants and arrests doesn't Indiana have 3 strikes.
He should have already been away for good. And the little girl's life would still be intact.
 
Last edited:
Boxer said:
Agree. Arms swing around his chest as he walks, he even looks like he is looking down picking his footing in the police station.
Why is he not handcuffed?
And so many warrants and arrests doesn't Indiana have 3 strikes.
He should have already been away for good. And the little girl's life would still be intact.
Click to expand...

Some of his sentences were in other states.

Good question.

JMO
 
155etta said:
Why would he need to drag her? Have to think on this one. MOO.
Click to expand...

The girls were apparently found just below a natural ledge that is roughly 18 inches high. Atop the ledge are a circle of trees. I have posted related photos a couple of times.

Bridge Guy had no idea how long it would take for the bodies to be discovered. But to buy some time on exit he probably positioned the bodies below the ledge knowing that they would blend into the terrain, and in particular be difficult to see by anyone looking down the slope on the Logan side. If Libby was killed let's say 10 or 20 feet below the ledge it makes sense for Bridge Guy to drag her up to that spot, and then further attempt a camouflage by covering her with leaves, as some reports suggest. Libby with the large frame and loud tie dye shirt is more of a priority to conceal than Abby.

If the girls were posed side by side, or nearby, I'm not convinced he didn't move Abby also. It might not have been as obvious with Abby, given her smaller stature. Maybe he even lifted her up.

If this guy had post-event intentions of posing and signatures along with concealing the bodies to enable his escape, it seems unlikely that either girl was killed exactly where he wanted/needed her to be, given the evil priorities to follow.
 
Doghairrules said:
it’s interesting. I couldn’t find any pics of JBC right before or after 2/2017 but when he does post a pic in July he is clean shaven.
Click to expand...
I saw pictures posted on 2/03/2017 and 2/17/2017 where he was clean shaven except for a longer sideburn. That doesn’t mean the pictures were necessarily taken on those days. These pictures were in the comments section of the post with the dog rolling in the mud. A FB friend showed a SS of what he posted for friends only.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
The girls were apparently found just below a natural ledge that is roughly 18 inches high. Atop the ledge are a circle of trees. I have posted related photos a couple of times.

Bridge Guy had no idea how long it would take for the bodies to be discovered. But to buy some time on exit he probably positioned the bodies below the ledge knowing that they would blend into the terrain, and in particular be difficult to see by anyone looking down the slope on the Logan side. If Libby was killed let's say 10 or 20 feet below the ledge it makes sense for Bridge Guy to drag her up to that spot, and then further attempt a camouflage by covering her with leaves, as some reports suggest. Libby with the large frame and loud tie dye shirt is more of a priority to conceal than Abby.

If the girls were posed side by side, or nearby, I'm not convinced he didn't move Abby also. It might not have been as obvious with Abby, given her smaller stature. Maybe he even lifted her up.

If this guy had post-event intentions of posing and signatures along with concealing the bodies to enable his escape, it seems unlikely that either girl was killed exactly where he wanted/needed her to be, given the evil priorities to follow.
Click to expand...
Libby would only bruise when she was alive. I have wondered if she tried to fight him off Abby and he dragged her away.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
The girls were apparently found just below a natural ledge that is roughly 18 inches high. Atop the ledge are a circle of trees. I have posted related photos a couple of times.

Bridge Guy had no idea how long it would take for the bodies to be discovered. But to buy some time on exit he probably positioned the bodies below the ledge knowing that they would blend into the terrain, and in particular be difficult to see by anyone looking down the slope on the Logan side. If Libby was killed let's say 10 or 20 feet below the ledge it makes sense for Bridge Guy to drag her up to that spot, and then further attempt a camouflage by covering her with leaves, as some reports suggest. Libby with the large frame and loud tie dye shirt is more of a priority to conceal than Abby.

If the girls were posed side by side, or nearby, I'm not convinced he didn't move Abby also. It might not have been as obvious with Abby, given her smaller stature. Maybe he even lifted her up.

If this guy had post-event intentions of posing and signatures along with concealing the bodies to enable his escape, it seems unlikely that either girl was killed exactly where he wanted/needed her to be, given the evil priorities to follow.
Click to expand...

On the ongoing topic of the unconfirmed body discovery site, I noticed TL’s description of it while searching for something else. It convinces me more than ever the exact location is unknown to the general public.

BBM
County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet
Q. Ron Logan has stated on news programs the only way to get to the site is over difficult terrain and private property. Given the difficulty getting to where the bodies were found, many believe the killer(s) were familiar with the area. Do you as a law enforcement officer believe that as well?

A. Very much so. It is part of the reason why we continually feel it is a “local” or someone who was very familiar with the area.
 
OverTheRhine said:
Some information from Grey Hughes new video. He has an unverifiable source that claims a few things we didn't know. Grey only mentions them because this person had previously known other aspects of the crime that weren't released. He claims this source knew about the young guy sketch before it was released, and knew that it was done days after the crime. Apparently he shared this information with Grey well before the 2019 press conference.

He says Libby was dragged and had bruising on her wrists.
DG was seen on camera searching for the girls and another cyclist was in the area. He says BG had still been in the area for at least 20 minutes while DG was seen on camera.
He claims the first sketch was almost all done by looking at the video with maybe a little witness input.
The only DNA they have is possible weak partial touch DNA from one of the girls clothing.

Click to expand...

In regard to the speculation on Libby being dragged, and the difficulty of doing so...

would a deer drag apparatus facilitate this?
:(

I have no idea.

Amazon.com : deer dragging harness
 
IMO The 20 minutes extra time is a time stamp of the car moving on from the abandoned CPS building.
Hoping they got enough likeness from LG video and enough detail from the surveillance at the next building.
That's why they want to talk to the driver of that vehicle. LE believe its him.
We need more info released about the car, driver and CPS building.

moo
 
Awsi Dooger said:
The girls were apparently found just below a natural ledge that is roughly 18 inches high. Atop the ledge are a circle of trees. I have posted related photos a couple of times.

Bridge Guy had no idea how long it would take for the bodies to be discovered. But to buy some time on exit he probably positioned the bodies below the ledge knowing that they would blend into the terrain, and in particular be difficult to see by anyone looking down the slope on the Logan side. If Libby was killed let's say 10 or 20 feet below the ledge it makes sense for Bridge Guy to drag her up to that spot, and then further attempt a camouflage by covering her with leaves, as some reports suggest. Libby with the large frame and loud tie dye shirt is more of a priority to conceal than Abby.

If the girls were posed side by side, or nearby, I'm not convinced he didn't move Abby also. It might not have been as obvious with Abby, given her smaller stature. Maybe he even lifted her up.

If this guy had post-event intentions of posing and signatures along with concealing the bodies to enable his escape, it seems unlikely that either girl was killed exactly where he wanted/needed her to be, given the evil priorities to follow.
Click to expand...
All that work and no dripping sweat, spitting, coughing or getting small cut or scrape on a branch or something?

MOO maybe the touch DNA is his, the sweatshirt touching some uncovered part of his face when struggling with Libby.
 
Last edited:
k-mac said:
IMO The 20 minutes extra time is a time stamp of the car moving on from the abandoned CPS building.
Hoping they got enough likeness from LG video and enough detail from the surveillance at the next building.
That's why they want to talk to the driver of that vehicle. LE believe its him.
We need more info released about the car, driver and CPS building.

moo
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure that if it wasn't him, with the notoriety of these murders, the driver would have come forward.
 
k-mac said:
IMO The 20 minutes extra time is a time stamp of the car moving on from the abandoned CPS building.
Hoping they got enough likeness from LG video and enough detail from the surveillance at the next building.
That's why they want to talk to the driver of that vehicle. LE believe its him.
We need more info released about the car, driver and CPS building.

moo
Click to expand...

If someone was newly homeless or between places to stay, and decided to camp out in the woods near the bridge for a few days, where would it make the most sense to park a vehicle, assuming they had one? I would think you'd want someplace out of site, no cameras, low traffic, and not a tow zone. Also within a short walk to your camp. Does CPS building fit this description? Has it been confirmed there were functioning cameras there?


Personally if I had a vehicle I'd prefer to camp out in it for safety, warmth (February is cold at night), and to stay dry.
 
k-mac said:
IMO The 20 minutes extra time is a time stamp of the car moving on from the abandoned CPS building.
Hoping they got enough likeness from LG video and enough detail from the surveillance at the next building.
That's why they want to talk to the driver of that vehicle. LE believe its him.
We need more info released about the car, driver and CPS building.

moo
Click to expand...

The vehicle that was supposedly parked at the abandoned CPS building is really one of the most confusing issues about this case to me. Somehow or another, whether you think it was captured on a CCTV camera or described by a witness, LE thinks that there was a vehicle there that's relevant to the case, but they've provided no details at all about the vehicle. I don't understand that, given that in practically any case I've ever heard of, having an accurate description of the color and shape of a vehicle is almost always used as a tool for seeking leads. I can't wrap my head around why LE would hold back what the vehicle looked like given how useful this type of information is in narrowing down potential suspects when developing leads, especially if the killer is not a local.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 141 more.
Total: 1,471 (members: 142, guests: 1,329)

Online statistics

Members online
142
Guests online
1,329
Total visitors
1,471
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
605,735
Messages
18,191,276
Members
233,510
Latest member
KellzBellz01
Back
Top