Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #137

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Well, it definitely can be dramatic. i.e. "The photo he used in his online profile was from 15 years ago, so she was led to believe he was much younger than his true age."

Exactly. This is the was I would interpret when this phrase is used, so I wondered about it when I heard BG using the phrase in the interview, whether she is actually saying that LE was deliberately mislead by someone with bad intentions to go with the OBG sketch.
 
"Led to believe" in English is very general. The thing believed can turn out to be true or false. The phrase could refer to intentional deception, unintentional deception, hint dropping, the simple cumulative result of a preponderance of evidence, etc. Anything that influences thought toward a conclusion leads you to believe that conclusion.
 
This peaked my interest. A while ago I was looking for comparisons using Google Trends. Essentially you can input several search key words and then it shows you how often it's been searched. You can narrow down the results by geography such as state and city.

What struck me was that in the months leading up to the murder no one really searched "Monon High Bridge". However, I could see that someone googled for "Monon High Bridge" from Chicago, IL. I've attached a screenshot that shows this.

The following is speculation, but I think BG could potentially be from the Chicago area and have searched for suitable sites online, including the "Monon High Bridge".

Edit: I attached a second screenshot from Google Trends where it can be seen that keywords "Abigail Williams", "Libby German", and "Monon High Bridge" were all searched from Chicago in the months leading up to the murder.

I’m picking up what you’re putting down. So if I’m reading the second screen shot correctly, Abigail’s name was googled multiple times before the killings? Or I’m interpreting that wrong?
 
This peaked my interest. A while ago I was looking for comparisons using Google Trends. Essentially you can input several search key words and then it shows you how often it's been searched. You can narrow down the results by geography such as state and city.

What struck me was that in the months leading up to the murder no one really searched "Monon High Bridge". However, I could see that someone googled for "Monon High Bridge" from Chicago, IL. I've attached a screenshot that shows this.

The following is speculation, but I think BG could potentially be from the Chicago area and have searched for suitable sites online, including the "Monon High Bridge".

Edit: I attached a second screenshot from Google Trends where it can be seen that keywords "Abigail Williams", "Libby German", and "Monon High Bridge" were all searched from Chicago in the months leading up to the murder.
Did you call the tipline?
 
OK, apologies if this is inappropriate here; I'm more than a bit stumped.

A couple of weeks ago I spent a lot of time in my car, and I listened to a number of podcasts about the Delphi murders, podcasts I found and put on a USB stick for the car. I'm not a regular podcast listener and thought the car would be a good chance to listen to podcasts on the subject.

One of the podcasts, a well-known one, had a multipart discussion of the Delphi issue with a guest who has a lot of Y**t*be videos on the subject, apparently. And a LOT of the discussion on these podcasts was about one "person of interest" about whom I have not, AFAICT, heard previously. A person who wrote, I understand, a website for a local public agency? And there was also talk of a young woman whose name was like that of a native American tribe.

This video maker has some very long videos on a video-sharing site and I am not interested in sitting through hours of talk videos, especially when the POI is apparently not widely seen as a POI by others, because I haven't found anything substantive about this person on the web, nor about the Indian-named woman. I've done some web searches and not found much at all about these people or their supposed connection to Delphi. Not that I recognized, at least--it may be that I didn't understand some of the information without the appropriate background information.

So to save me from having to sit through hours of videos I don't really want to see, does anybody have any links to other information about this POI? Or some other information source? Thanks in advance. --ken (AC4RD is my FCC-issued radio license, which I often use on the web; my real name is Ken, which you can easily find by searching for the callsign on the web.)
 
Plus we don’t know that the girls crossed any other bridges so how could any other bridge be involved?

1) I am trying to find the post that says there is another bridge in/near Delphi, more suitable for a random attack. - I am trying to find that post. At that time @Awsi Dooger seemed to think it was a random attack, and I had a semi-local poi, so I didn’t spend much time reading it, but remembered.

2) I initially thought of finding that place and running it through Google Trends, to see if it was looked at at the same time (close to August 2016) and the same place (Chicago) that someone Googled MHB.

I think whatever the connection was between the girls and the killer, was studied in details by LE and FBI. Today I am seriously wondering if he is a serial killer.
Led to believe, to be influenced by something you have seen or heard. My interpretation anyway

My interpretation: it is just a form of speech. Often met in scientific journals, where facts “lead us to believe”. But in this case, I understand it simply as “we had two sketches, we went with the old one”. Whether they had additional facts, or just chose it because they had an idea of who it could be, we don’t know.

JMO: no one led them. There is another phrase: “these facts (or “technology”, or “ways”) prompt us to think”. This phrase could be used interchangeably with “led us to believe” but I would not assume that anyone came and “prompted” ISP, nor led them. I think, own hubris can also lead one to believe, or prompt in the wrong way.
 
I’m picking up what you’re putting down. So if I’m reading the second screen shot correctly, Abigail’s name was googled multiple times before the killings? Or I’m interpreting that wrong?

I'd love to know if your interpretation is correct - anyone? This seems like a potentially rather big, big deal. I can understand many searches for Abigail - it is a common name, after all. But "Libby German" is not, IMO.
 
English speakers, Can you help me interpret the meaning of the phrase “led to believe” in the below contest?

At the time they were led to believe it was more this older one. And then with more information that they recieved and stuff, that was, I think, what was their turn, their other direction, they realized maybe it was more this one”.

To the bolded part, how would you interpret the “led to believe”?
Can “led to believe” mean something other than deception?
I am not native English speaker, so I sometimes miss the nuances in English words.

I interpret it as they were led to believe in was the older man they needed to find, for several reasons:

The person who described the older person may have been more enthusiastic about their description, said things like "He was definitely old" and "Yes, that's him" etc.

The one who described a younger man may have been more uncertain. "I think he was quite young."

The person who described the older man may be young and exaggerated his age and the one who described the younger man, may be fairly old, so exaggerated his youth.

Other witnesses may not have seen enough of him to do a full description, but when asked a general age, may have said "an older man. Dad age etc."

The video shows a man that looks very like the older man image. Everyone happily accepted the older man image as it matches what we can see in the video.

'Led to believe' is a fairly loose statement. It's a way of expressing uncertainty. "I was led to believe Coca Cola tastes better than Pepsi", "I was led to believe you were going to buy some bread on the way home from work".

In this instance, the police had more people saying BG was older, than younger, so they were led to believe that was actually the case".

I don't know if that helps!
 
still a lockdown on the investigation, JBC's hearing on moving his trial was vacated by the judge..everything postponed...still no clearing happening...he has not been cleared ..so somethings have to match up right?

his shoe size? match
his height ? match
right or left handed ? match

these things have to match or he would be out of the running..they cannot clear him.

mOO
 
Would you, or anyone here, remember what @Awsi Dooger once said about the place of attack? Something like there was another bridge in/near Delphi that he thought would be a more logical choice for a random attack. What was it?

I don’t remember the name of the bridge (still know very little about Delphi) but it would be interesting to see if that bridge had hits in Chicago area around the same days as MHB. The perp was either looking for a good place, or there was something too specific about MHB.

I looked for “how not to leave your DNA”, but it had too many hits, lol. People are busy…

I don't think I mentioned another bridge. You are probably referring to Moyer Gould Woods. That was easily the creepiest trail I walked in Delphi. I walked many of them because I wanted to get a feel for the area instead of heading directly to the bridge. I arrived in Delphi late Friday afternoon then didn't head to Monon High Bridge Trail until Sunday at noon. Of course, most of Saturday was devoted to the Purdue/Nebraska game since that is what brought me to the area in the first place. But after the game I did return to Delphi and walk Moyer Gould Woods before traipsing around downtown Delphi then heading to the Dairy Queen for a couple of hours to eat and watch college football.

Moyer Gould Woods is a bit out of town to the northwest. Very difficult to find. Small parking area amidst a ring of trees. I was the only one there. It is a rather unkept trail that heads innocently toward the woods and then disappears into them. I was not nervous at all at Monon High. But a day earlier at Moyer Gould Woods it was giving me the creeps and mostly I wanted out of there. I did the full trek to a river's edge. I'm not sure what river that was. Might have been Deer Creek but I doubt it. Wider and more placid. I tried to follow the trail. There was one sign near the river. But it was not well laid out or obvious. I walked mostly in circles near the river then returned to my car. During the entirety I was thinking this trail could just as easily been the site of a tragedy. Nobody's going to see or hear anything.

However, it is definitely less traveled than Monon High. More of a waste of time for an aspiring perpetrator, who needs some traffic then a dependable lull. That's the handicapper in me.

The only two times I got the creeps on that trip were at Moyer Gould Woods and also during the entirety of the visit to Locklair Road in South Carolina, 1976 murder site of the Sumter County Does.

Actually I amend that. I also got spooked at Monon High while trying to find a way out of there when I ran into the Tree of Shoes. That shocked the heck out of me. I had never heard of it. I was having trouble crossing the creek so I took a path leading away from the creek. I stopped to rest and contemplate. Then I look up and there are shoes draped throughout the tree over my head, plus a wooden sign that said Maple Street. I took one quick photo and dashed out of there, back toward the creek.

Later I learned the Tree of Shoes is a tribute by a homeowner to a son who died young.

On Sunday before heading to Monon High I walked several trails leading from Trailhead Park. There was a bridge on those trails that contained prominent graffiti while walking underneath. It read, "Legends are made in shallow graves..."

Obviously I wondered if it was a reference to Abby and Libby. I was surprised nobody had mentioned it previously. It made me realize that guys like Greeno don't actually know Delphi very well or walk the other trails. Otherwise it's absolutely guaranteed he would have filmed that graffiti and tried to exploit it in a camera shaking video.

For whatever reason that graffiti didn't bother me too much. The remainder of the trails in that area are primarily back and forth through tree lined areas and overgrown brush. Not especially scenic or interesting. There is no question Monon High was overall the best trail I saw in Delphi.
 
I don't think I mentioned another bridge. You are probably referring to Moyer Gould Woods. That was easily the creepiest trail I walked in Delphi. I walked many of them because I wanted to get a feel for the area instead of heading directly to the bridge. I arrived in Delphi late Friday afternoon then didn't head to Monon High Bridge Trail until Sunday at noon. Of course, most of Saturday was devoted to the Purdue/Nebraska game since that is what brought me to the area in the first place. But after the game I did return to Delphi and walk Moyer Gould Woods before traipsing around downtown Delphi then heading to the Dairy Queen for a couple of hours to eat and watch college football.

Moyer Gould Woods is a bit out of town to the northwest. Very difficult to find. Small parking area amidst a ring of trees. I was the only one there. It is a rather unkept trail that heads innocently toward the woods and then disappears into them. I was not nervous at all at Monon High. But a day earlier at Moyer Gould Woods it was giving me the creeps and mostly I wanted out of there. I did the full trek to a river's edge. I'm not sure what river that was. Might have been Deer Creek but I doubt it. Wider and more placid. I tried to follow the trail. There was one sign near the river. But it was not well laid out or obvious. I walked mostly in circles near the river then returned to my car. During the entirety I was thinking this trail could just as easily been the site of a tragedy. Nobody's going to see or hear anything.

However, it is definitely less traveled than Monon High. More of a waste of time for an aspiring perpetrator, who needs some traffic then a dependable lull. That's the handicapper in me.

The only two times I got the creeps on that trip were at Moyer Gould Woods and also during the entirety of the visit to Locklair Road in South Carolina, 1976 murder site of the Sumter County Does.

Actually I amend that. I also got spooked at Monon High while trying to find a way out of there when I ran into the Tree of Shoes. That shocked the heck out of me. I had never heard of it. I was having trouble crossing the creek so I took a path leading away from the creek. I stopped to rest and contemplate. Then I look up and there are shoes draped throughout the tree over my head, plus a wooden sign that said Maple Street. I took one quick photo and dashed out of there, back toward the creek.

Later I learned the Tree of Shoes is a tribute by a homeowner to a son who died young.

On Sunday before heading to Monon High I walked several trails leading from Trailhead Park. There was a bridge on those trails that contained prominent graffiti while walking underneath. It read, "Legends are made in shallow graves..."

Obviously I wondered if it was a reference to Abby and Libby. I was surprised nobody had mentioned it previously. It made me realize that guys like Greeno don't actually know Delphi very well or walk the other trails. Otherwise it's absolutely guaranteed he would have filmed that graffiti and tried to exploit it in a camera shaking video.

For whatever reason that graffiti didn't bother me too much. The remainder of the trails in that area are primarily back and forth through tree lined areas and overgrown brush. Not especially scenic or interesting. There is no question Monon High was overall the best trail I saw in Delphi.

Thank you. Very informative and well-explained. Yes, I was looking for it.

You are clearly not easily scared, so if you had an odd feeling in the Moyer Gould Woods, I would pay attention to it. It easily might have been the place of another tragedy.

I made screenshots of some of your posts, from 2019. Today, I totally agree with them.
 
I'd love to know if your interpretation is correct - anyone? This seems like a potentially rather big, big deal. I can understand many searches for Abigail - it is a common name, after all. But "Libby German" is not, IMO.

“Abigail Williams” is Googled every year, close to September. Kids in schools must be studying
Salem witch trial and reading about her. Google trends show perfect sine wave.
 
Forgive me if this has been discussed as nauseam, but I find this interview with County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby in February 2021 odd, in terms of the highlighted question and response.

That is not the twist, or even one of the twists I expected. I expected the twist to be related to the actual crime itself, not how surprised LE was not to solve this quickly.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet
 

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Forgive me if this has been discussed as nauseam, but I find this interview with County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby in February 2021 odd, in terms of the highlighted question and response.

That is not the twist, or even one of the twists I expected. I expected the twist to be related to the actual crime itself, not how surprised LE was not to solve this quickly.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers | Carroll County Comet

It’s just more ridiculousness from LE in this case. Most of us saw the moment LE said this, when the case was very fresh, and emotions were raw and everyone was on edge. They were certainly not referring to the fact that usually they find missing persons and all is OK.
I think as time went on and there was no arrest, and I do think they expected a quick arrest, LE realized they needed to protect that “twist” as evidence, so they decided to categorize what they had said as something else.
 
I just saw where there has been an arrest in the NC 2012 murder case of Faith Hedgepeth. Nine years. So there is hope, but it would be great if there isn't a nine year wait here.
I mainly follow the Hedgepeth case, though I peek in on this one quite frequently, too. Until the arrest last week, it was remarkable how alike they were, as far as the status of the investigation. Excellent evidence, narrow window for the crime, police convinced there'd be a quick arrest, endlessly saying they just need one break while not saying much new, etc.
In that case, it turned out that was true and they finally got the break they needed, though whether that fell in their lap or was some lead they followed isn't clear yet. But it all happened really fast once it did. I'm thinking that'll be the case here, too. One day they'll call a surprise press conference, the whole family will be there, and they'll announce an arrest. I know four years is a long time, but I really think it'll happen.
 
This peaked my interest. A while ago I was looking for comparisons using Google Trends. Essentially you can input several search key words and then it shows you how often it's been searched. You can narrow down the results by geography such as state and city.

What struck me was that in the months leading up to the murder no one really searched "Monon High Bridge". However, I could see that someone googled for "Monon High Bridge" from Chicago, IL. I've attached a screenshot that shows this.

The following is speculation, but I think BG could potentially be from the Chicago area and have searched for suitable sites online, including the "Monon High Bridge".

Edit: I attached a second screenshot from Google Trends where it can be seen that keywords "Abigail Williams", "Libby German", and "Monon High Bridge" were all searched from Chicago in the months leading up to the murder.
FYI...This info is on the site Bridgehunter under Delphi, Indiana's Mon- Deer Creek High Bridge...

Description
Part of the former Monon Railroad's Indy to Chicago "Air Line", this is one of two large bridges of similiar design on this route..."

So that railroad does have a literal connection to Chicago, IL

MON - Deer Creek High Bridge
 
I mainly follow the Hedgepeth case, though I peek in on this one quite frequently, too. Until the arrest last week, it was remarkable how alike they were, as far as the status of the investigation. Excellent evidence, narrow window for the crime, police convinced there'd be a quick arrest, endlessly saying they just need one break while not saying much new, etc.
In that case, it turned out that was true and they finally got the break they needed, though whether that fell in their lap or was some lead they followed isn't clear yet. But it all happened really fast once it did. I'm thinking that'll be the case here, too. One day they'll call a surprise press conference, the whole family will be there, and they'll announce an arrest. I know four years is a long time, but I really think it'll happen.

Another case solved by forensic genealogy. Hoping that they have dna to do a profile for Libby and Abigail's case and just haven't tried this yet. It's not cheap, but I would surely donate funds to get this done.
 
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