Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #93

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I think I remain frustrated by the insistence that the public should know more about the details of the investigation. Several POIs in this case who turned out to have nothing to do with it have had their lives scandalized and ruined in the aftermath.

I guess I just wish people would be more sensitive to why or why not we might be given sketches or profiles at any given time. The police just know more than we do, and it has to be that way to ensure security of the investigation, to prevent copycat attacks, to ensure innocent people aren't harassed and stalked, etc...

I think there have been accusations that the police are only out to punish in this case and I think there's ample evidence that that's not the case. There is an entire community to think of. Justice for the girls is the end goal, but I can't fathom LE being willing to endanger the general public by flaying the case open and letting everyone run amok with it.
It’s arrogance, ignorance, and a sense of entitlement.

These people watch too many movies, and have no understanding of the realities of an investigation like this.

Just look at the damage they are causing with the small amount of information we do have.

People are being accused left and right, and nutjobs are calling in tips regarding people who resemble the sketch on Facebook.

That’s exactly what the investigators do not want. That isn’t helping.

They want specific information from people who may have seen or heard something.
 
Thank you.
I’m going to give a broad reason for why I need to review this particular video. It was filmed shortly after the girls were reported missing. There were volunteers helping to search & they did interview several people.
I’m checking YouTube for it right now...it’s getting exhausting :/
MOO
I haven't read forward to see if anyone got back with the video you were looking for, but I just found this news report from that first night. Hope this helps:

 
That aside though, that’s not a common behavior among sexually motivated killers.

That’s why they’re killers, and not just rapists.

It’s not simply about eliminating witnesses, it’s about the satisfaction that killing brings them.

They generally graduate from less serious criminal behavior as they no longer find satisfaction in what they were doing before.

Someone who exposes themselves might move up to rape.

A rapist might move up to murder.

I’ve never heard of someone exposing themselves before a murder though (if it was sexually motivated, as I believe).

As to your point about freezing, I’ve done that myself.

People do shocking things on late night subway trains.

As you said, the suspect likely graduated from lesser crimes to murder. That to me, would narrow the pool of suspects significantly, especially in a small town. But I agree with you regarding the DNA evidence that they may have....the quality is very questionable due to the emphasis on an older man's profile for so long and then a radically different genetic profile appears two years later. I hope I am undermining what they have biologically from the suspect.
 
I believe if they were dropped off, 'up there', at the trailhead parking lot, and they would have crossed OVER the Hoosier Hwy using the Freedom Bridge.

If BG parked at the former Social Services building, he would bypass any people (or cameras) in that area. He would also IMO have a possible vantage point to eyeball anyone on the trail. Either way, he would encounter fewer obstacles to reaching whatever goal he had set for himself.

I believe the case map by Skibaboo (on the first post of each thread) has everything marked, including where Libby & Abby were dropped off. If you’ve not looked at it yet, it’s very thorough.
 
As you said, the suspect likely graduated from lesser crimes to murder. That to me, would narrow the pool of suspects significantly, especially in a small town. But I agree with you regarding the DNA evidence that they may have....the quality is very questionable due to the emphasis on an older man's profile for so long and then a radically different genetic profile appears two years later. I hope I am undermining what they have biologically from the suspect.
Yeah. I think it also narrows the pool in regard to age.

An older guy would likely have a more extensive criminal history.

He’d also be more likely to have his DNA on file.
 
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The first sketch is not of BG. So that is a mess up. LE basically said it themselves when telling everyone to disregard it.

No. It's not indicative that someone messed up. This is a logic problem. Akin to a Venn diagram type of thing.

Here's an example:

Child goes missing from the street where she was playing. Parents call 911. Word spreads quickly and three witnesses tell the authorities that they saw a child being dragged into a blue Toyota type vehicle. They saw a tall man with dark hair and a beard, drive off with the child. They identify the child with the one who is missing. They are certain.

When asked why they didn't call
911 they say they thought it was a parent-child dispute but how they realize it was the child being abducted.

The authorities issue a sketch based on that information and a description of the vehicle and the man, via an AMBER alert.

A year later a homeowner who had been overseas comes home and starts to hear all about the news of the kid being taken. They realize the description matches themselves. They go to authorities and tell them that their child was playing on the street that day but was not supposed to be outside at that time being so he yelled at her to get in the car. He didn't grab her or get out of the car but he was there and matches the description. His family left for a year-long job in Germany the next day, unaware that his description was published.

The authorities realize the witnesses might have seen this man and not the abductor. They realize that in the intensity of the moment perception can be somewhat skewed so while they only heard the man yell from the car and saw him motion to his kid to get in, that memory became him getting out of the car and physically shoving her inside, once they realized a child was missing.

The authorities realize they may have the wrong description. They go back through all their witness statements. They find an older lady who a year ago said she saw a man she didn't recognize, lurking in the neighborhood that day and she felt odd about him and watched him a bit. He walked around the street slowly a few times. He was short, overweight, blonde hair and no beard or mustache. Before, they made a sketch of who she recalled seeing but they had to discount her in the face of the definitive and detailed witness statements to the actual abduction itself.

The woman starts talking to neighbors about being reinterviewed.

A few months later, another neighbor discovers that the security camera they assured LE when the child was abducted, was broken due to a coincidental windstorm the night the child went missing, actually was not totally broken. Security footage from that day was preserved.

She reviews it. And sees a man walking by kids playing and staring at the kids. He's fairly visible. Short, overweight, blonde. She calls the police.

The authorities enhance the video. They talk to the kids who were playing on the street that day. A couple remember a creepy guy. The authorities work with the kids, the old lady and the video and determine the sketch never released was accurate.

That sketch is now released to the public.

Did authorities "mess up" earlier in this scenario? No. They did exactly what they should have based on the info they had at the time.

That's a made up scenario but it's one of thousands that can explain why certain evidence is published that later is changed.

We've seen this in other cases as well. Like when at first a certain car is published and then they changed what car they're looking for. This is not tv. It looks like hard work by dedicated professionals who do what they have to with what they have. IMO.
 
It’s arrogance, ignorance, and a sense of entitlement.

These people watch too many movies, and have no understanding of the realities of an investigation like this.

Just look at the damage they are causing with the small amount of information we do have.

People are being accused left and right, and nutjobs are calling in tips regarding people who resemble the sketch on Facebook.

That’s exactly what the investigators do not want. That isn’t helping.

They want specific information from people who may have seen or heard something.

Boy if this isn't the truth, I don't know how many times I have seen on the internet people calling in tips that they can in no way substantiate.

It's literally insane to assume that you can solve a case by matching up some grainy images with a poi that you know nothing about!

Craziness and if these same people think that this investigation is incompetent then they should look in the mirror and think about all the pointless tips that LE has had to sort through ....IMO and with all due respect
 
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Agreeing with you, Apples12. Good point.
I am hoping that LE has looked at young men in the area who have jobs that require them to keep fit.

BG,.....even wearing extra clothing, moved quickly.

Jobs like
1) Lifeguard at community pool.
2) Personal Trainer
3) Health club manager.

BG.....could have gone to that Trail as a teenager to hang out. He could work or live nearby now. Maybe even still live home with his parents.
Possibly a First Responder job like Fire department, EMT, etc ?.......moo
 
That’s the kind of map I like, easy to read. Thank you:)
Now I don’t get how they ended up over by Deer Creek from the Monon Bridge. They went under / across the Hoosier Highway?
The girls were dropped off at the trailhead parking across the street from the Mears farm on the map, so they were closer to the Monon Bridge. Photo of BG was taken from the SE end of the bridge, so I speculate that if they were murdered within minutes, BG compelled them “down the hill” from the end of the bridge in a NE direction, and from there it only takes a few minutes to cross the creek at shallow spot to reach the murder scene. There is more than one YouTube vid where the steps have been retraced and the distance between the end of the bridge and the creek bed is notably brief.

I think the harder conjecture to make is how the killer exited the crime scene, but it is also close to the Morning Heights Cemetery and Rt 300. Too little has been said by LE to definitively connect the killer to the vehicle parked at the former social services building, other than they want to know who was there and why. I doubt he retraced his steps across the bridge.

Moo.
 
Possibly a First Responder job like Fire department, EMT, etc ?.......moo
Farmers, athletes (Delphi seems to be like most midwestern small towns, and very very into having their kids play many sports), and the general endurance of youth...More young men than older men would fit into a profile of someone who is in shape, IMO
 
The two were murdered minutes after the video was taken is how I read it. The word “murder” is synonymous with death, is it not? If instead of “murder” words such as approached or confronted were used, then I’d agree other scenarios involving a greater period of prior to their murder would be possible. But that’s not what is written here:

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.
Yes, I understand, I just meant that I didn't think it necessarily means the murder itself was quick. "Minutes" can be 20 or 30 minutes which could mean that he didn't murder them right by the bridge, but spent 10 minutes walking them to another location, further in the woods and near the creek where they were found.
I was just trying to say that I don't think he acted in an out of control rage. I believe it was more deliberate and controlled. Imo
 
The girls were dropped off at the trailhead parking across the street from the Mears farm on the map, so they were closer to the Monon Bridge. Photo of BG was taken from the SE end of the bridge, so I speculate that if they were murdered within minutes, BG compelled them “down the hill” from the end of the bridge in a NE direction, and from there it only takes a few minutes to cross the creek at shallow spot to reach the murder scene. There is more than one YouTube vid where the steps have been retraced and the distance between the end of the bridge and the creek bed is notably brief.

I think the harder conjecture to make is how the killer exited the crime scene, but it is also close to the Morning Heights Cemetery and Rt 300. Too little has been said by LE to definitively connect the killer to the vehicle parked at the former social services building, other than they want to know who was there and why. I doubt he retraced his steps across the bridge.

Moo.
Looking at the map, it seems like it would have take BG 10 minutes or so to get back to a vehicle if he came up from RL's property.
Unfortunately, it also seems like a large amount of that walk would also be along a treeline, which would provide cover and still not hinder the time it would take to get back to the car.
 
I believe the case map by Skibaboo (on the first post of each thread) has everything marked, including where Libby & Abby were dropped off. If you’ve not looked at it yet, it’s very thorough.
It is very thorough. And the timeline is amazing. But this map with it all laid out as far as landmarks resonates with my brain.
 
A big sticking point for me re: was this killer experienced or a newbie... it’s really amazing (in a bad way) that he apparently left so little personal clues/evidence that would ID him to LE. What’s the chance of that for an inexperienced killer especially with there being 2 victims? Also, unlike many killers who are caught because they run their mouth to friends afterwards, BG (at least so far) hasn’t been trapped by that. Feeling less optimistic that BG will turn out to be some young punk that hasn’t killed before-just my opinion.

I think I tend to agree. I don't envision it being a crime of passion or a first-timer. I don't think this person is some sort of mastermind but I don't think he lacks experience in this department either...unfortunately. Could it be the same killer as that of Lyric and Elizabeth? All MOO
 
Hi, Gitana......Re: Your last paragraph - How about " I think you are bad naughty sinful girls that I need to rid the World of " ?...........moo

It seems to me that that kind of person would be the one most likely to be a serial offender, either a serial rapist who escalated or a serial murderer. But that kind of killer usually focuses on women who are down and out, not on clean-cut schoolgirls.
 
Hi, Gitana......Re: Your last paragraph - How about " I think you are bad naughty sinful girls that I need to rid the World of " ?...........moo
I don't think there was sexual assault on either girl - I don't think that is a part of BG's makeup. Based on what is known regarding the relative swiftness and brutality of the murders, I think it was a methodical act, driven by some deep seated anger/personal conflict that probably goes way back in his life, and that he has yet to resolve.

Coupled with this, I think we will discover some of the following:
  1. that he is likely from Indiana or an adjacent state, but has strong ties to Delphi
  2. is a young adult pursuing a specific career path, which may or may not be of his own choosing
  3. between school and/or job training, he "floats" in and out of the Delphi community
  4. on the surface, is very personable, has many friends & contacts, and overall, a seemingly normal life, but . . .
  5. . . . has some deep seated conflict he can't seem to resolve, maybe tied to his career path and/or personal life, which . . .
  6. . . . somehow, psychologically, drove him to commit this act, to "boil over" so-to-speak, in an effort to release his frustration, anger, confusion, emotional pain, etc.
Just thinking out loud.
 
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This was discussed in the last thread. I thought the same, distinctly recalling the use of the adjective "creepy", yet I couldn't find a source for it.

Another poster recalled the same thing, but said he/she thinks it was not in print, but rather used by Grey Hughes in one of his videos. I think that is correct. He was discussing the girls observance of BG, and I believe he said something to the effect that on the phone audio, one of the girls said "There's that creepy man again." - OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT. He wasn't directly quoting the audio, he was just trying to relay the jist of the comment to his audience.

Creepy is a great descriptive word and I think one that many people could relate to - creepy bridge, creepy man, creepy situation, etc. I think it just stuck with everyone, but it was not a direct quote from anywhere in MSM IIRC.

IIRC it was a reporter from the tabloid The Sun in UK who first stated the girls referred to a creepy man but that was the reporters own wording, not a quote attributed to anyone.
 
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