Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #95

[x_files]

Yes, I think this is exactly this. If multiple family members frequently shared a vehicle, they'd know who was using it on a particular day. And who would cover for a killer? A parent or a spouse. There is one, possibly two people who need to come forward and turn the killer in, and they know who they are.

maybe mother and father covering...for the son. Or what if they all went together to hoke, son wandered off committed this crime, they had no clue?

 

[neesaki]

Hey, that's what I said, too! Definitely the part that stood out to me the most.

His chin is very distinctive isn’t it?

 

[margarita25]

MO says they know exactly what kind of car was abandoned at that site...”if they say we need a white Toyota they will get 600,000 tips from as far away as you could possibly imagine and every single one of those tips has to be run to ground and chews up all your manpower” (doh was that a slip, was it a white Toyota? We know it was possibly white...she also mentions “machete” or “gun” as an example. Would she know if it was a machete? She’s retired and doesn’t work this case I’m assuming so perhaps she is indeed just using this as an example, but a machete wouldn’t surprise me, moo.)

She also says “so you have to find a way to suss out people who are coming in with false confessions because like it or not, people in this country are lonely and want to be a part of something big and this is huge.”

 

[msnorabarnacle]

Some churches in that area have baptisms in that creek. Not the sprinkle on your head type but the dunk your whole body in type.

One of the churches does in fact use the creek for baptisms but more NW.

 

[Seattle1]

JSM is saying how LE has held so much back but one thing they’ve always said several times is they have DNA, so for him that is “a big point of order..what is the origin of that DNA, is it blood, or is it semen.”

He continues by saying he things “there are some really nasty issues, not to mention the fact that he mentioned that this is a particularly violent crime...this sounds very personal..engaged...I do t know if the thought he wanted these girls perhaps and just attacked.”

(Sounds like jmo he seems to think SA is likely JMO)

Or maybe DNA from material collected from beneath the fingernails of the victims.

 

[Deleted member 278]

White Toyota?????

 

[enelram]

Can you get fingerprints off skin? Its been so very long since I was heavily involved in all this that I'm starting to forget my info from back when. You know Disneyland and six flags are now taking fingerprints from all who enter or maybe from only pass holders. They say they do not store them but I think they do. Might be more places that are now taking prints to get into certain amusement parks. Prints are used to open your phone. You bet they are being stored from phones. Do they have a way to pull up KEY words on any post or comment from news articles such as yahoo news? There was a post that bothered me from one of the articles about delphi murders but I cannot find it again on yahoo comments section. It was a guy that lived there and was aware of the park, then moved to texas. Said the girls were made into women. Just very strange comments. If they could pull certain words of interest associated with this double homicide. That would be probably overwhelming though. I would hope that investigators read through any comments left by readers in comment sections under any article related to a murder.

apparently you can lift fingerprints off human skin BUT
it's very difficult technically and must be done quickly,
within couple hours of print being deposited. Plus many
environmental conditions can make it difficult- humidity, temperature, etc.
Casting a Wide Net: Lifting Fingerprints from Difficult Surfaces

 

[allboys]

They have the phone -
it was found in the area of the bodies.

So, IF this is true that the phone was in the “area” of the bodies, and not on the person of a body, that tells me that the phone may not have been easily/quickly located by a perp trying to quickly flee the area. Say, if it had slid under some brush or leaves during the attack.

And IF BG had no reason to believe his image was captured...if he was looking down, and if Libby was subtle enough, IMO that is a possibility. As far as the audio...same thing. I don’t think it’s likely it would have occurred to him that his voice was recorded. If Libby had been speaking on the phone, then yes, he might fear someone could hear his voice (or recording of his voice if she was leaving a message).

On top of the possibility of her phone not being easily located by BG, as he prepared to exit crime scene, perhaps he didn’t have a big motivation to find and take the phone either.

It seems that the motive of most murders/abducters who take a phone have the following reasons:
1. So as not to give the location of the victim away ~ (well, in this case, it doesn’t seem that he was trying to hide the location of the victims. More likely, he was just trying to “hide” the act of the crime itself, until he could disappear.)
2. So as to not leave any DNA evidence. ~ (well, if he never come into contact with the phone this would not be a concern)
3. So as to not allow the victim(s) a way to call for help. (Well, this was not a concern as victims were diseased).

I’m just offering up a possible reason for it not being a big deal, in BG’s mind, for leaving behind a cell phone. Obviously, in hindsight, he can see in fact it was a big deal. Even if his image or recording of voice does not lead to his capture, Libby’s video and audio recording could help in cracking this case, because I believe the case has received a significant increase in attention for the sole reason that the perp was caught on video by the victim(s) just prior to attack. Making this case very unique and capturing the interest of many who may have otherwise not paid much attention to this case.

 

[TTF14]

So, IF this is true that the phone was in the “area” of the bodies, and not on the person of a body, that tells me that the phone may not have been easily/quickly located by a perp trying to quickly flee the area. Say, if it had slid under some brush or leaves during the attack.

And IF BG had no reason to believe his image was captured...if he was looking down, and if Libby was subtle enough, IMO that is a possibility. As far as the audio...same thing. I don’t think it’s likely it would have occurred to him that his voice was recorded. If Libby had been speaking on the phone, then yes, he might fear someone could hear his voice (or recording of his voice if she was leaving a message).

On top of the possibility of her phone not being easily located by BG, as he prepared to exit crime scene, perhaps he didn’t have a big motivation to find and take the phone either.

It seems that the motive of most murders/abducters who take a phone have the following reasons:
1. So as not to give the location of the victim away ~ (well, in this case, it doesn’t seem that he was trying to hide the location of the victims. More likely, he was just trying to “hide” the act of the crime itself, until he could disappear.)
2. So as to not leave any DNA evidence. ~ (well, if he never come into contact with the phone this would not be a concern)
3. So as to not allow the victim(s) a way to call for help. (Well, this was not a concern as victims were diseased).

I’m just offering up a possible reason for it not being a big deal, in BG’s mind, for leaving behind a cell phone. Obviously, in hindsight, he can see in fact it was a big deal. Even if his image or recording of voice does not lead to his capture, Libby’s video and audio recording could help in cracking this case, because I believe it has received a significant increase in attention for the sole reason that the perp was caught on video by the victim(s) just prior to attack. Making this case very unique and capturing the interest of many who may have otherwise not paid much attention to this case.

In addition, he may have been smart enough to not have wanted the phone to leave that location at all and pinpoint his whereabouts.

 

[x_files]

This is what I think. They realized who the owner of the car was, I assumed it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with this particular family, and then let it go.

My theory they found the family who drove to the bridge that day that owns the car. Mom and dad both claim they were there with their son or denied he was with them.
Witnesses describe the son being there that day. So causes complications.
Maybe parents loaned him the car do not believe he is capable of murder so covered for him, or mom covered.
Or maybe Father and Son have a sick hobby mom is unaware of?

 

[enelram]

JSM is saying how LE has held so much back but one thing they’ve always said several times is they have DNA, so for him that is “a big point of order..what is the origin of that DNA, is it blood, or is it semen.”

He continues by saying he things “there are some really nasty issues, not to mention the fact that he mentioned that this is a particularly violent crime...this sounds very personal..engaged...I do t know if the thought he wanted these girls perhaps and just attacked.”

(Sounds like jmo he seems to think SA is likely JMO)

But remember sexual assault doesn't necessarily imply
penetration by one's organ. Lots of other ways for
a 'dork' to sexually assault a victim.
Wouldn't surprise me if this misfit perp has a sexual
fetish combined w/ violent fantasies. Real Sicko.

 

[margarita25]

Re: DNA, they’re talking about this “wall of secrecy” that the host felt when she was there. CG mentions a perp being worried about “spitting on the sidewalk someone could swan that” or being worried about “throwing out my plastic fork at McDonalds...they are looking for definite changes in behavior and reactions to this PC.”

MO says “this is exactly right and that’s what they’re looking for and when they have everyone in this town looking left right and center waching someone drink something then (gestures to hiding the cup) that’s going to be the tip that they’re looking for.”

 

[marisab67]

My theory they found the family who drove to the bridge that day that owns the car. Mom and dad both claim they were there with their son or denied he was with them.
Witnesses describe the son being there that day. So causes complications.
Maybe parents loaned him the car do not believe he is capable of murder so covered for him, or mom covered.
Or maybe Father and Son have a sick hobby mom is unaware of?

Winner, winner!

 

[Nemellotus]

Many who commit murder take a personal item with them. I guess when they crack this case we will find out.

 

[Suglo]

apparently you can lift fingerprints off human skin BUT
it's very difficult technically and must be done quickly,
within couple hours of print being deposited. Plus many
environmental conditions can make it difficult- humidity, temperature, etc.
Casting a Wide Net: Lifting Fingerprints from Difficult Surfaces

True. Talk to the detectives in Sacramento who tried to do this back in the 70s with rape victims of the East Area Rapist who went on to be known as the Golden State Killer (and was caught last year with the use of genetic genealogy). I don’t think they ever had any luck in getting any usable prints.

 

[margarita25]

Main host who was at the PC is commenting on Carter “looking directly at the camera and saying “the way you left these girls is not the way they are feeling right now”” and says this was when she was “taken a back”, saying “How weeere they left? What did this crime scene look like Joey?”

Joey is talking about poking him to get him out of his comfort zone, out of his daily routine.

Also basically talking about what we have discussed (actually we’ve discussed all of this already) re: the coffee cup dna trick (paraphrasing), that this may be used if there is no DNA match in the database, but they may have some indication as police who the person could be, just generally.”

CG mentions how it has to be in the public domain and that this is key bc you don’t want to lose a case because you violate the person’s rights in the process of getting their DNA.”

(Yawn...anything we haven’t discussed?)

JSM talks about cases solved via a “contaminated napkin, contaminated coffee cup, cigarette butt...”
(Yawn)

“So all these things we do everyday, they’re putting him on a pin cushion.”

JJ responding to coffee cup discussion reiterating you don’t want to make a mistake after putting your blood, sweat and tears into a case.

—-

Yay, mention of “armchair detectives who are also so investigated in this case”.

—-

Alright they’re going to talk to talk to the sketch artist on the panel after the break. I think I’ve seen him before, maybe on Forensic Files.

Not sure sure I’m up for another half hour of transcribing atm (yawn). Taking a break. I see others are posting as well.

 

[x_files]

Commenter saying how the bridge is 75 feet up, really frightening, and he’s just walking like he’s walking on the sidewalk.

Is it possible BG pushed one teen to her death/grabbed the other attacking her? Just eliminated one to gain access to one? Then moved both bodies?

 

[enelram]

My theory they found the family who drove to the bridge that day that owns the car. Mom and dad both claim they were there with their son or denied he was with them.
Witnesses describe the son being there that day. So causes complications.
Maybe parents loaned him the car do not believe he is capable of murder so covered for him, or mom covered.
Or maybe Father and Son have a sick hobby mom is unaware of?

Mom covered, imo.
Picture this: He is her baby, maybe her only baby. Besides the total community embarassment, she cannot stand the thought that her 'angel' would commit a crime.
He's always been 'perfect'. The perfect child. Their only child. Nope, parents are in denial and will cover for him
til their deaths. Like Frazee's mother and brother and sister.

 

[x_files]

If it’s who I think it is he’s already had a come to Jesus moment and likes to tell everybody about it all the time !

lol! I agree, but a real moment of soul searching and guilty consciousness one that makes him confess. I'm leaning towards the guy is a psychopath. Thinks pretty highly of himself, maybe special or God's messenger.

 

[Seattle1]

MOO
I have been speculating on why a sudden PC called. I would like it be because they seemingly gained new evidence, but I know it also could be that old evidence got invalidated. MOO - to me feels like new evidence not a setback. Just MOO.

Perhaps a bit of both. The old sketch became invalid, and new evidence is available that supports sharing the first sketch. Some early reason that sketch drawn 2/17/17 was never released then or later.