Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[fred&edna]

I find it hard not to be hopeful here.

The stakes are so high, that they couldn’t possibly risk releasing this second sketch, unless they absolutely believed it was accurate.

For close to two years, BG had the wrong face.

They just might have the right one now.

I still have hope. I just wish I knew how it was "determined" he had the wrong face (but same mannerisms and/or gait) for 2 yrs. I guess I want more puzzle pieces to feel truly positive.

 

[ab01]

I find it hard not to be hopeful here.

The stakes are so high, that they couldn’t possibly risk releasing this second sketch, unless they absolutely believed it was accurate.

For close to two years, BG had the wrong face.

They just might have the right one now.

I'm convinced they are making progress

And Agreed justice is coming

With that said I wouldn’t be surprised if it takes some time to get to the point of an arrest.

I have a feeling they are just starting to get to the point that they can see the light at the end of the tunnel

Nobody wants this crime solved more than the investigators and family

“Wheels of justice grind slow, but grind fine”
-sun tzu-

 

[Snoop Sister]

Well we passed the 100 post mark

 

[NickoD]

There are strict rules and laws regarding the chain of custody for evidence.

I'm assuming the police can't turn the DNA over to a geneology company. I will look into it further.

The answer is complicated. Some companies (i.e. GEDmatch) require its users to sign a consent form stating that their DNA could be used to help law enforcement efforts while others do not have that. Additionally, some companies use testing that requires a large clean sample of DNA and cannot work with mixed or small samples usually collected from crime scenes.

The answer is less about chain of custody and more about adjudication. Currently the matter rests with the individual laws of each state. California and Virginia are very pro-familial search while Maryland and DC completely banned it. Not sure where Indiana sits on this.

NOTE: I am still waiting to be verified so I guess MOO for the above. My verification is not as a lawyer however so perhaps one of them can jump in here.

 

[cluciano63]

I am still unclear...has original BG been ruled out/cleared?
And how did it happen that he became a non-goer at same time new image became the “right” one? Is this tied to the return from retirement of the former prosecutor? Did he want to use the new sketch all along? Or at least to show both? It is all very confusing.

I know they don’t want us to know the answers to these questions. But imo the PC was a mess, considering it was planned well in advance. Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

I am still unclear...has original BG been ruled out/cleared?
And how did it happen that he became a non-goer at same time new image became the “right” one? Is this tied to the return from retirement of the former prosecutor? Did he want to use the new sketch all along? Or at least to show both? It is all very confusing.

I know they don’t want us to know the answers to these questions. But imo the PC was a mess, considering it was planned well in advance. Jmo

According to links on the last thread, at first they said that the first sketch was "secondary" and then later said that the person shown in that sketch was ruled out. And I have no idea why they said that or what's going on.

 

[MassGuy]

The answer is complicated. Some companies (i.e. GEDmatch) require its users to sign a consent form stating that their DNA could be used to help law enforcement efforts while others do not have that. Additionally, some companies use testing that requires a large clean sample of DNA and cannot work with mixed or small samples usually collected from crime scenes.

The answer is less about chain of custody and more about adjudication. Currently the matter rests with the individual laws of each state. California and Virginia are very pro-familial search while Maryland and DC completely banned it. Not sure where Indiana sits on this.

NOTE: I am still waiting to be verified so I guess MOO for the above. My verification is not as a lawyer however so perhaps one of them can jump in here.

About a dozen states allow criminal databases to be searched for familial matches.

In that situation, you’re searching for convicted family members who have similar DNA to that of an UNSUB.

Parabon uses GED Match, which contains a far greater sample of the population.

It’s users upload their DNA from sites like Ancestry, knowing that it can be used for a variety of purposes.

This is one of them.

As of now, it doesn’t matter if your state allows for familial criminal databases searches, because this doesn’t use one.

It would not stop Parabon from becoming involved.

 

[ab01]

According to links on the last thread, at first they said that the first sketch was "secondary" and then later said that the person shown in that sketch was ruled out. And I have no idea why they said that or what's going on.

Yah all we know is that the first sketch has been ruled out.



They have to have a solid reason to believe the person depicted in that sketch is not the killer

They would not do that unless they are 100 percent confident

Moo

 

[fred&edna]

I am still unclear...has original BG been ruled out/cleared?
And how did it happen that he became a non-goer at same time new image became the “right” one? Is this tied to the return from retirement of the former prosecutor? Did he want to use the new sketch all along? Or at least to show both? It is all very confusing.

I know they don’t want us to know the answers to these questions.

RSBM

YEP.

To understand how they ended up here (with the new "correct" face) is the biggest problem.

We all understand how eyewitnesses can be wrong, and we also understand advanced technology was used on the recorded images to obtain a clear "look" at the killer.

We also understand they can't share too much info. But, it's unsettling not to explain what occurred in 2 years that caused this major change in the killers face.

The one thing I know they won't say is, "whoops!"

 

[NickoD]

About a dozen states allow criminal databases to be searched for familial matches.

In that situation, you’re searching for convicted family members who have similar DNA to that of an UNSUB.

Parabon uses GED Match, which contains a far greater sample of the population.

It’s users upload their DNA from sites like Ancestry, knowing that it can be used for a variety of purposes.

This is one of them.

As of now, it doesn’t matter if your state allows for familial criminal databases searches, because this doesn’t use one.

It would not stop Parabon from becoming involved.

Maryland’s Bill (assuming approval) denies all DNA searches, not just criminal databases. That would restrict Parabon as well.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2019RS/bills/hb/hb0030f.pdf

 

[MassGuy]

Maryland’s Bill (assuming approval) denies all DNA searches, not just criminal databases. That would restrict Parabon as well.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2019RS/bills/hb/hb0030f.pdf

It would, but that doesn’t effect this case (obviously).

That’s what matters here.

 

[Walking the dog]

Hello everyone.I am new here so hope I don't step on any toes. So many people seem like they will be discouraged if nothing happens on Monday. Carter never said 2 weeks. He said at least 2 weeks. Something very well might happen then. But it could be later. Just don't be disappointed. It could be even as we speak! jmo

 

[ab01]

Hello everyone.I am new here so hope I don't step on any toes. So many people seem like they will be discouraged if nothing happens on Monday. Carter never said 2 weeks. He said at least 2 weeks. Something very well might happen then. But it could be later. Just don't be disappointed. It could be even as we speak! jmo

Agreed and welcome!

 

[LaborDayRN]

Hello everyone.I am new here so hope I don't step on any toes. So many people seem like they will be discouraged if nothing happens on Monday. Carter never said 2 weeks. He said at least 2 weeks. Something very well might happen then. But it could be later. Just don't be disappointed. It could be even as we speak! jmo

Welcome to WS and I agree!

 

[Dre]

One of the last statements on the panel was by the retired FBI agent about working on the genealogical match with the DNA. Is it conceivable she would just make that up suddenly on the spot? I felt that it was thrown in there... but I so hope that’s the truth!

 

[Charlot123]

This was recently mentioned during HLN panel discussion reverse genealogy DNA.
I realize this is farfetched, if LE asked families living near or in Delphi to volunteer and provide DNA.
Certain individuals would see this as a violation of their civil rights.
However, if people volunteered to provide DNA it would be a different matter.
Quickly you smoke out a killer and bring him to justice.
JMO

All is too expensive, but if they have several suspects, they can significantly narrow it down.

 

[gregjrichards]

Hello everyone.I am new here so hope I don't step on any toes. So many people seem like they will be discouraged if nothing happens on Monday. Carter never said 2 weeks. He said at least 2 weeks. Something very well might happen then. But it could be later. Just don't be disappointed. It could be even as we speak! jmo

Welcome to Websleuths Walking the dog. Thank you for joining us and great first post.

 

[ParadoxyOddity]

Looking at this graphic (if I am reading this correctly), the girls were more or less at the end of the bridge when the footage of BG was taken. It seems like a very long bridge so I would assume that they would have known he was behind them for some time?

I don’t think the victims were found 1 Km or 0.5 miles away as some have mentioned. If you look at google maps, the bodies were found about 100 yards from the south east end of the bridge. It wouldn’t have taken long for BG to take them from the end of the bridge to the crime scene.
IMO he could have committed the crime and left the scene in 15-30 min. He likely was nearly back to the parking lot before anyone knew the girls were known to be missing.

Again, looking at the graphic, which way did they go? Because the distance for the end of the bridge to the water appears quite far, which is why I'm curious as to where he took control over them. Did they leave the bridge and decide to walk back to the pick up point and were approached in the forest? Abby may not have been familiar with the area, but Libby and her family were.

According to reports, one of the girls father, Derrick, made it to the bridge, but turned away rather than crossing. The elderly gentleman that he spoke to mentioned that he had only seen a man and woman under the bridge. Where are these witnesses? When they were searching for the girls, they were calling their names and it is said that the voices carried very well. If the girls were close to the bridge and perhaps they screamed, then the people under the bridge should have heard something.

ETA: There was a female hiker on the bridge taking photos at the time the girls were murdered. Why did she not hear or see anything? Why did BG not target her or know she was in the area?

 

[kkdj]

Hello everyone.I am new here so hope I don't step on any toes. So many people seem like they will be discouraged if nothing happens on Monday. Carter never said 2 weeks. He said at least 2 weeks. Something very well might happen then. But it could be later. Just don't be disappointed. It could be even as we speak! jmo

Welcome Walking the dog!

 

[margarita25]

Catching up from the last thread:

@LadyL Well-Known Member
“Who is CE???”

“I've been here since day 1 and I don't know who it is.”
—
Response:

Cross quoting from the media thread, I’ve/we’ve put a lot of effort in keeping the media thread updated for reference, so anyone new to the case or needing any reference, please check there, chances are good that it’s there if it’s within TOS.

(Re CE:

Local Wayne, IN news station has an interesting article on recently arrested suspect and noted similarities to the Delphi suspect. I don’t normally pay much attention as there are stories like this often, however this one does stand out if you dig a bit.

Man admits to child molestation after online police sting

Adding additional link that discusses FBI being made aware of potential similarities. Sorry I forgot this in original post.

FBI MADE AWARE OF ARREST OF MAN WHO RESEMBLES WANTED KILLER OF TEEN GIRLS

Angela Brauer‏Verified account @AngelaBrauerTV

The Randolph Co. Sheriff's Department arrested Charles Eldridge earlier this week for child molestation. The Chief Deputy confirms they forwarded the photo & information to higher authorities, but they say "anyone that resembles the Delphi sketch is forwarded." Standard procedure

Angela Brauer on Twitter

Alleged Child Molester Draws FBI's Attention For Resemblance To Delphi Snapchat Killer

“RANDOLPH COUNTY, IN — The FBI and Indiana State Police are looking into the recent arrest of a man who strongly resembles the sketch of a suspect possibly responsible for killing two girls in early 2017.

Charles Eldridge, 46, was taken into custody on January 8 and is facing felony child-molestation and solicitation charges after he was nabbed in a sting operation.”

UNION CITY MAN NOT CONSIDERED PERSON OF INTEREST IN DELPHI MURDERS

“The Randolph County Sheriff’s Department has issued a statement saying that the man recently arrested for child molesting is not a suspect in the murder case of two Delphi girls two years ago.”

“The information was sent to the FBI. Investigators said it’s too early to link Eldridge to the Delphi murders, according to WTHR. Officials did, however, say they investigate every lead.“

Recent arrest draws comparison to sketch of suspect in murder of 2 Indiana girls
—-

“Richmond radio station Kicks 96 reports Eldridge's case has ben forward to the FBI, but investigators say it's too early to make a connection and are not calling Eldridge a person of interest. They only say they investigate all leads that come to them, reminding people they've had nearly a half-dozen individuals reported to them based on resemblance.“

Randolph Co. sexual abuse suspect draws comparisons to Delphi murderer
—-

“NBC reports that while the FBI and state police are looking into the matter, they indicated it’s too soon to tell whether Eldridge should be considered a suspect in the girls’ murders. At this time, authorities are not even calling Eldridge a person of interest.“

Delphi Murders: Uncanny resemblance of man facing child molestation charges to Delphi killer sketch grabs FBI interest [Report]
—-

“WTHR-TV reported law-enforcement officials are looking into the new Eldridge lead but were careful to note he has not been named a person of interest in the Delphi murders.

Whether or not Eldridge is eventually linked to the girls' deaths, authorities are thankful he was caught before he could potentially do harm to more kids in the Union City area.”

Alleged Child Molester Draws FBI's Attention For Resemblance To Delphi Snapchat Killer

ISP reminds public they look into all tips in Delphi double murder case

“As of Jan. 11, investigators were saying it was too early to make any connection, and they were not calling Eldridge a person of interest in the Delphi murders.

A release from the Indiana State Police issued Monday afternoon made clear the multi-agency investigative team will be looking into whether Eldridge has any connection to the Delphi murders, just as they investigate every tip they receive.“

“Despite the investigation into Eldridge, law enforcement is making it clear that this situation is not that uncommon.

Indiana State Police told WTHR that "many similar tips and arrests of other persons alleged to be connected to the Delphi murders occur with some frequency in and outside of Indiana."

Alleged Indiana Child Molester’s Mugshot Draws Comparisons To Delphi Murder Suspect

JAN 19, 2019

Cops probe connection between 'child molester' arrested 100 miles from where teen girls were killed | Daily Mail Online
Cops working on the unsolved murder of two girls killed on Indiana train tracks are looking into a man arrested on suspicion of child molestation after the public likened his mugshot to the sketch of the killer.

Charles Andrew Eldridge, 46, was taken into custody on suspicion of child molestation on January 8 after he was caught trying to have sex with a minor in an undercover sting where the Randolph County Sheriff’s Department posed as a 13-year-old girl.

After his detainment in Union City, his mugshot drew comparisons to an earlier sketch of Abby Williams and Libby German's killer.

The Delphi multi-agency investigative team working on the double murder case have confirmed that they are looking into Eldridge's arrest.

The location is around 116 miles from where the teenagers were found dead.

But the Chief Public Information Officer for the Indiana State Police said 'many similar tips and arrests of other persons alleged to be connected to the Delphi murders occur with some frequency'.

Eldridge has been charged with two counts of child molestation, one count of attempted child molestation, and one count of child solicitation.

Man's mugshot draws comparisons to sketch of Indiana teens' suspected killer
January 20, 2019

“After receiving multiple calls, Capt. Dave Bursten of the Indiana State Police assured the public the task force dedicated to finding the teens' case investigates every tip.

“I can promise you this: When an arrest is made of a suspect identified ... as the alleged perpetrator of the Delphi Murders, rest assured, we will let everyone know," Bursten said in a statement.”

“The former security guard posts almost daily about cases of missing children.”

Snip

“Across the two social media pages the suspect has shared hundreds of posts relating to murder, sex crimes, missing children and evasive killers.

Eldridge had also shared several stories about the murder of Abby and Libby.

He posted public appeals and a story about potential DNA evidence, as well as the sketch of the suspect the public believes he looks like, bearing the tagline 'Pass it around. [He] Could be anywhere.'“

Thank you @zencompass for the link:

Police investigate new development in murder of 2 girls in Delphi, Ind.

“"The reality is law enforcement, even if they think he's the right guy, what evidence do they have to prove he is the right guy?" said former FBI Agent Brad Garrett.”

Indiana police investigating new lead in cold case murder of two teens

“"Until we know that this is the guy, we're not saying it's the guy, and we're still looking for the guy, so that's where we are at right now," Abigail's mother Anna Williams said.

Mike Patty, Liberty's grandfather, said was optimistic that this could be a new lead in the case.

"Once we get that phone call that, 'Hey, we've made an arrest and we're confirmed,' then I guess, maybe a celebration ain't the right word, but a sense of relief that this guy's been taken off of our streets," Patty said.”

Indiana man who looks like Delphi suspect is 'weird' and 'violent' | Daily Mail Online
EXCLUSIVE: Accused child molester who looks like sketch of suspected murderer of two teen girls was 'violent weirdo obsessed with hiding in the woods'
By Louise Boyle In Union City, Indiana
23 Jan 2019, updated 24 Jan 2019

“Now the grandparents of Eldridge's ex-wife, Erin, have exclusively told DailyMail.com that they have long seen a comparison between Eldridge, who is known as Andy, and the FBI sketch from the Delphi murders.

Donna Clack, 76, said: 'When we saw that picture on the news, we said that looks like Andy. We placed [the sketch] with Andy before this.'

Her husband Robert, 77, described Eldridge as 'weird'. 'He was totally different, he was always talking about guns,' he said.“

Snip

“Mr Clack said that Eldridge was fond of spending time in the woods. 'He was always out there, dressed in Army clothes.'

Mrs Clack said: 'He would always go out and he wasn't hunting. He would go in the woods and what he'd do, we don't know. I never let any of the kids go with him. I never trusted Andy.'”

(Thank you @gregjrichards for the link)

Eldridge was arrested in Union City, Indiana about 116 miles from where Libby and Abby were found dead almost two years ago

Indiana man who looks like Delphi suspect is 'weird' and 'violent' | Daily Mail Online

“An accused child molester, whose mugshot has drawn comparisons with the sketch of the suspect in the 2017 murder of two teenage girls is a 'weirdo who liked to hang out in the woods' and is 'very violent', according to relatives.“

From the above link:

“Now, there may be a suspect although cops are rightly hesitant to call him that.

His name is Charles Andrew Eldridge, 46. He goes by Andy.

The burly **** looks alarmingly like the composite sketch that emerged from the initial probe.

The killer was described as a white male between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-10, weighing between 180 and 220 pounds, with reddish-brown hair.

Sounds like Eldridge.

And he ticks off a tractor-trailer load of other boxes.”

“On Monday, Dr. Oz spoke with his crime correspondent about Eldridge. She talked about what she's learned about him.

"His Facebook is live and it's very strange," said Melissa Moore. "He's posting a lot of things about guns, and not by itself that would be odd, but the fact that he's posting about guns and some sort of cryptic religious scriptures. Then he's got photos of him lurking in the woods and now coming to light like that, it's creepy. but at the end I've also seen a ton of posts about missing children, and then there's also a post about Abby and Libby."”

)