Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #97

[somequestions]

What if both pictures released of the suspect are wrong?

 

[MassGuy]

What if both pictures released of the suspect are wrong?

Then hopefully any potential witnesses don’t second guess themselves, and still contact law enforcement.

DNA doesn’t lie though, so there’s hope there.

 

[gregjrichards]

What if both pictures released of the suspect are wrong?

Then law enforcement have a big problem. I don’t think that is the case though something dramatic must have happened recently to confirm sketch one man (if he exists) is not the murderer and sketch two man is.

 

[ParadoxyOddity]

What if both pictures released of the suspect are wrong?

I think they are.

IMO this isn't the first time this person has done this either.

ETA: I also think that two people are involved.

 

[Blueberry2720]

It seems many people are discussing the sketches as being unrelated in terms of looks, age range, etc. They feel annoyed and that LE wasted 2 years.

But, what if you stop focusing on the actual facial representations, and consider the "unseen" aspects of the fact that there are 2 sketches. What if all the tips and investigation of the first sketch did 2 things:

1. allowed LE to rule him out
2. AND, somehow led them to sketch #2, literally - perhaps there is a connection between the 2 sketches that we are not privy to

Just maybe, they would never have turned to sketch #2 without completely vetting sketch #1 first. Personally, I think there is a link between the sketches which no one but LE knows. JMO

 

[Blueberry2720]

Well we passed the 100 post mark

I thought it was 100 threads, no?

 

[sunsetbeach]

We speculated in the past that Abby was in one of the still photos that was released early on but then that photo was pulled and replaced. It’s still on the web though because once posted it never disappears.

So I was looking at the video on the ISP website and it’s my opinion that we were right all along.
I froze the video when the dark bar on the left shows up. It’s my belief that you can see Abby’s left side of her arm (with the light colored jacket) and you see some reddish color and Abby was wearing a reddish color shirt. The jacket is bunched on her right arm so I bet it was the same on her left arm. You can see that in the screenshot with BG IMO.

Did ISP put that black bar in the video to cover Abby? I think it’s possible. Could it be the dark part from the inside lining of her jacket? I’m not sure. Either way I find it interesting and I believe that is why they didn’t release a video before, because she’s in it.

I didn’t alter the photo in any way, it’s just a screenshot.

Thoughts?

 

[margarita25]

I'm not sure who said it.I don't have a link.I'm asking did anyone hear on the panel on HLN or somewhere if they said anything about the scar possibly under his nose and what they said on the panel.I can't find it.

Thank You very much.This is what I wanted to know.

I’ve got a quote for you as well.

From the HLN Delphi Special “Panel” on Monday, my loose transcription on this aspect (snipped version / see link for full post):

“In big letters on HLN screen:

“SKETCH ARTIST SAYS
In interview with INDIANAPOLIS Star

•Sketch is based on description from witness

• Witness is main focus, no input from police

•”Facial identification reference sheet” used”

—-

Host to panel member/sketch artist MS:

“This is not, you say, to compare to any one picture that they may have. This sketch here, or any sketch, is for someone out there who may know him or her to recognize that drawing, correct?”

“That’s absolutely correct.”

He continues.

MS commenting of youthful appearance how usually a young inexperienced offender doesn’t carry out a crime of this magnitude, but...

MS says the noticeable feature for him for people to not focus on but take into account with the rest of the facial information is the length of the jaw, the chin, from the lower lip to the tip of the chin, seems extraordinarily disproportionate to the rest of the face.”

JSM comments on his impression of possible underbite and cleft/shadowing on chin. MS says that it could be “that the person depicted in the sketch has a very strong, pronounced jaw, and you’d seesee that just above the tip of the chin below the lip would be more pronounced and perhaps jutting out just a bit.”

—

JJ: “What’s the accuracy and how do sketch artists go about developing something like this?”

MS: “Its really hard to pinpoint percentage in terms of accuracy” (ha I asked what the percentage was the other day)...”most of my successes are when people have some presence of mind to stay calm during a crime and they’re actually fully engaged with the sketch artist during the investigation itself...”

MS speaking more about this process of developing the sketch—establishes a repoir and level of trust with the witness.

They reiterate it appears these are two totally different people (old and new sketch) but MS notes that these investigations are “very fluid and dynamic and they change in an instance so the difficult part is this has become the face of the last two years so now they’ve had to quickly pivot...and I think they’ve gone a very good job, a very responsible job of introducing this new sketch to the public and making this the focus of the investigation.”

Last edited: Monday at 3:07 PM

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #95

 

[book-thinker]

Looking at this graphic (if I am reading this correctly), the girls were more or less at the end of the bridge when the footage of BG was taken. It seems like a very long bridge so I would assume that they would have known he was behind them for some time?



Again, looking at the graphic, which way did they go? Because the distance for the end of the bridge to the water appears quite far, which is why I'm curious as to where he took control over them. Did they leave the bridge and decide to walk back to the pick up point and were approached in the forest? Abby may not have been familiar with the area, but Libby and her family were.

According to reports, one of the girls father, Derrick, made it to the bridge, but turned away rather than crossing. The elderly gentleman that he spoke to mentioned that he had only seen a man and woman under the bridge. Where are these witnesses? When they were searching for the girls, they were calling their names and it is said that the voices carried very well. If the girls were close to the bridge and perhaps they screamed, then the people under the bridge should have heard something.

ETA: There was a female hiker on the bridge taking photos at the time the girls were murdered. Why did she not hear or see anything? Why did BG not target her or know she was in the area?

I don't recall did LE interview the man and woman under bridge? If the couple did witness something, why not reach out
to LE. I"m mystified by the fact witnesses never heard screaming.

 

[bodester413]

We speculated in the past that Abby was in one of the still photos that was released early on but then that photo was pulled and replaced. It’s still on the web though because once posted it never disappears.

So I was looking at the video on the ISP website and it’s my opinion that we were right all along.
I froze the video when the dark bar on the left shows up. It’s my belief that you can see Abby’s left side of her arm (with the light colored jacket) and you see some reddish color and Abby was wearing a reddish color shirt. The jacket is bunched on her right arm so I bet it was the same on her left arm. You can see that in the screenshot with BG IMO.

Did ISP put that black bar in the video to cover Abby? I think it’s possible. Could it be the dark part from the inside lining of her jacket? I’m not sure. Either way I find it interesting and I believe that is why they didn’t release a video before, because she’s in it.

I didn’t alter the photo in any way, it’s just a screenshot.

Thoughts?

I agree. I thought that one still photo from way back was her too. If you put it in Photoshop or Snapseed and turn up the color saturation you can really tell its the same color as her shirt and sweater. That might help explain the low resolution video too. They originally had to cut out so much of it because it showed Abby.

 

[book-thinker]

I’ve got a quote for you as well.

From the HLN “Panel” on Monday, my loose transcription on this aspect:

1. “In big letters on HLN screen:
   
   “SKETCH ARTIST SAYS
   In interview with INDIANAPOLIS Star
   
   •Sketch is based on description from witness
   
   • Witness is main focus, bo input from police
   
   •”Facial identification reference sheet” used”
2. Host to sketch artist MS:
   
   “This is not, you say, to compare to any one picture that they may have. This sketch here, or any sketch, is for someone out there who may know him or her to recognize that drawing, correct?”
   
   “That’s absolutely correct.”
   
   He continues.
   
   Note to pick up 12:30ish...MS commenting of youthful appearance how usually a young inexperienced offender doesn’t carry out a crime of this magnitude, but...
   
   MS says the noticeable feature for him for people to not focus on but take into account with the rest of the facial information is the length of the jaw, the chin, from the lower lip to the tip of the chin, seems extraordinarily disproportionate to the rest of the face.”
   
   They are showing people’s tweets on the bottom of the screen.
   
   JSM comments on his impression of possible underbite and cleft/shadowing on chin. MS says that it could be “that the person depicted in the sketch has a very strong, pronounced jaw, and you’d seesee that just above the tip of the chin below the lip would be more pronounced and perhaps jutting our just a bit.”
   
   —-
   Haha JJ is asking MS how effective are these sketches. I asked the same thing. “What’s the accuracy and how do sketch artists go about developing something like this?”
   
   MS: “Its really hard to pinpoint percentage in terms of accuracy” (ha I asked what the percentage was the other day)...”most of my successes are when people have some presence of mind to stay calm during a crime and they’re actually fully engaged with the sketch artist during the investigation itself...”
   
   MS speaking more about this process of developing the sketch—establishes a repoir and level of trust with the witness.
   —
   
   As I said before I’m so in awe of sketch artists’ talents! I just think it’s really an amazing ability and gift.
   
   —-
   They reiterate it appears these are two totally different people (old and new sketch) but MS notes that these investigations are “very fluid and dynamic and they change in an instance so the difficult part is this has become the face of the last two years so now they’ve had to quickly pivot...and I think they’ve gone a very good job, a very responsible job of introducing this new sketch to the public and making this the focus of the investigation.”
   
   (“Fluid”—-was that the main word in the Closs investigation iirc?)
   
   Commercial break.
   
   —
   This sketch sure is getting a lot of face time. This is awesome. Let’s hope this sketch is accurate.
   
   Last edited: Monday at 3:07 PM
   
   
   
3. —-
4. Found Deceased - IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #95

margarita 25 thank you for your endless hours in excellent research and your caring heart.

 

[margarita25]

The HLN special report re: Delphi is still available on Hulu til Mon. And they only have a few segments posted on youtube. I wish they would post the whole thing.

From the media thread, bringing forward what should be the entire show in two segments (I’m not sure because I didn’t view these links):

APR 30, 2019
Delphi Murders: Is the new sketch the answer?

Looks like a continuation of the show where the last video above stopped...

-The link to the media thread is located in the first post of every thread.
IN - Abigail Williams & Liberty German, Delphi, Media, Maps, Timelines NO DISCUSSION

 

[Charlot123]

Catching up from the last thread:

@LadyL Well-Known Member
“Who is CE???”

“I've been here since day 1 and I don't know who it is.”
—
Response:

Cross quoting from the media thread, I’ve/we’ve put a lot of effort in keeping the media thread updated for reference, so anyone new to the case or needing any reference, please check there, chances are good that it’s there if it’s within TOS.

(Re CE:

)

The irony, if you make CE 20 years younger and thinner, he’ll be the spitting image of YBG’s sketch! Brown-reddish hair, big chin, small, deep-set eyes. The shape of the nose. His bulging areas under the ears might be parotid glands often enlarged in alcoholics, but YBG’s sketch looks the same. Are CE and YBG related? Could be, if both are local.

 

[marisab67]

Don’t feel bad, Roses, I’m doing the same thing, wake up in the middle of the night, think about this case, and can’t go back to sleep. So I get up and read here hoping for some good news, then first thing when I get up in the morning. And then I think about it off and on all day long, checking in every couple of hours or so. At least we know we’re not alone in our obsession. I hope for an arrest too, very, very soon.

Same for me. In my case it’s because they remind me of me and I spent so much time by myself in the woods when we lived in the country when I was young and riding buses and roaming Los Angeles when we moved there. Things I would never let my own kids do today. I want this person caught before any other family has to go through this because of him. And like so many others I want to know why? I am a diagnosed sociopath and in my youth quite a miscreant and yet I still have zero understanding about the kind of mind that does this.

 

[book-thinker]

It's all here: Photo Page – Delphi Homicides

ParadoxyOddity
thank you I didn't realize between the girls being dropped off and the snapshot of BG was 22mins. I believe he followed the girls soon after being dropped off at 1:45pm. It's almost as if he was waiting for the girls. How long did it take the girls to reach the bridge. I understand Libby make a comment about a creepy guy. How soon after arriving did the girls see BG before he approached the girls at the end of the bridge.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

There are strict rules and laws regarding the chain of custody for evidence.

I'm assuming the police can't turn the DNA over to a geneology company. I will look into it further.

Crime labs are bound by strict protocol involving everything from chain of custody to testing to release. There are times when conventional tests can be outdated as I am finding out with Parabon. With a company like this who can literally perform miracles with DNA, who wouldn't use it? Custody chains can always remain preserved as long as permission is asked for and granted by authorized personnel.
MHO

 

[NickoD]

I don't recall did LE interview the man and woman under bridge? If the couple did witness something, why not reach out
to LE. I"m mystified by the fact witnesses never heard screaming.

I am fairly convinced that couple under the bridge never actually existed outside a faulty memory.

 

[margarita25]

Delete

 

[Blueberry2720]

I am fairly convinced that couple under the bridge never actually existed outside a faulty memory.

I agree. I think it was a story that got retold incorrectly and/or somehow grew legs.

 

[Cherokee]

I agree. I thought that one still photo from way back was her too. If you put it in Photoshop or Snapseed and turn up the color saturation you can really tell its the same color as her shirt and sweater. That might help explain the low resolution video too. They originally had to cut out so much of it because it showed Abby.

And that's why BG didn't see Libby videoing him, because Abby was blocking his view of Libby's phone.

JMO