Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[OldLadyBlues]

Do you think it could be as long as 6 months before an arrest?
For the last 2 weeks I have been hoping an arrest is imminent.

My personal opinion is this case will take as long as it needs to take for a SOLID conviction. I think LE knows who they want and are laying in wait for him to pop up again in Delphi because I think family resides there. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, they are going through all old AND new information and seeing what fits now, what applies now and what can nail this "new" BG, to the crime.
I don't think we're going to hear a peep out of LE for awhile only because I feel they are building a case.
MOO, MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Fascinating article, thanks for posting. The thing that stood out to me regarding BTK:

"Prior to his arrest, Rader was married for thirty-four years with two children, a Boy Scout leader, employed as a local government official and was the president of his church congregation."

I cannot imagine the horror Boy Scout members (parents included), government officials, and church members must have felt when BTK was arrested. Not to mention family members. I remember watching an interview with his daughter on tv. The family's first reaction was "there's some sort of mistake- it couldn't be him." IMO, based on the recent PC, LE believes the community may have the same reaction when BG is arrested.

I think I may have been traumatized to learn a man I sat next to in church on Sundays could be capable of such atrocities. Talk about a man who hid in plain sight.

Even the organized serial killers like BTK, exhibit concerning and sometimes flat out disturbing behavior, while they are hiding in plain sight.

He bullied his co-workers, exhibited a temper (especially with women), and did horrible things to members of the public when he was working as an animal control officer (took a woman’s dog from her yard and put it down).

He’s not unique in this regard, and there are always signs.

They’re just hard to spot unless the context is right.

 

[enelram]

I recently read a Law Enforcement Today article in which a former cold case homicide detective argues that there are only 3 motives for crime/murder:

1. financial greed
2. sexual/relational lust
3. pursuit of power (includes sense of respect, authority, embarassment, prestige & control).

In the presser Carter made it quite clear that LE believes that this case is about 'power/control' to BG. I'm wondering how that would be possible to know without LE knowing the psychological makeup of BG (hence, knowing his identity an having investigated him). Was it simply a process of elimination (no signs of robbery or SA)? Was it something about the way the bodies were left? Something he said in the audio captured by Libby's phone?

Cause and manner of death can usually pinpoint motive.
I read earlier, right after pc, that one showing domination and
control usually strangles victims.
Also maybe he tied them up or used cuffs of zip ties.
this doesn't exclude that he may have also sexually battered
them in some way.
FBI has pretty good info on defining these things.

 

[MassGuy]

I recently read a Law Enforcement Today article in which a former cold case homicide detective argues that there are only 3 motives for crime/murder:

1. financial greed
2. sexual/relational lust
3. pursuit of power (includes sense of respect, authority, embarassment, prestige & control).

In the presser Carter made it quite clear that LE believes that this case is about 'power/control' to BG. I'm wondering how that would be possible to know without LE knowing the psychological makeup of BG (hence, knowing his identity an having investigated him). Was it simply a process of elimination (no signs of robbery or SA)? Was it something about the way the bodies were left? Something he said in the audio captured by Libby's phone?

What the crime scene looks like, can tell law enforcement a lot about a killer.

They wouldn’t even need that though, not here.

Two murdered girls in the middle of the woods, really only leaves the door open two one plausible scenario.

A sexually motivated murder.

There doesn’t need to be any overt signs of a sex act, nor does sexual assault have to occur.

The thrill comes from power and control, and the fantasy it feeds.

They’d explore other angles of course, but this is the one that would be at the top of the list.

I do think the crime scene helped them reach this conclusion though.

 

[2Hope4]

BRAVO! ENCORE! Say it a little louder for all the threads! Making money is what the majority of youtube is all about. To raise more views, you throw in some drama, inside information, exclusive interview, etc, and tada, more money in your account.

 

[carbuff]

...waiting...

 

[mtnlites]

BRAVO! ENCORE! Say it a little louder for all the threads! Making money is what the majority of youtube is all about. To raise more views, you throw in some drama, inside information, exclusive interview, etc, and tada, more money in your account.

YouTube has made it more difficult for channels to earn money anymore, you have to have a certain number of subscribers and the subject matter is limited now, but that's generally the idea. The world of true crime has created a cottage industry full of regular people without insider knowledge, experience, or education who are earning money (if not a living) capitalizing on people's interests by creating podcasts, videos, and subscriptions for blog content. It's become a business and the more knowledge a person has, whether it's bonafide or theoretical, the more their star rises.

I'm not totally knocking it. As an author who writes about topics that people are interested in, I get it-to an extent. It's also important, though, not to put blind faith in some of these people and what they say. There's little to no quality control or vetting of information.

 

[Falling Down]

If BG was hunting, imo he might not have anticipated that his victim(s) was going to cross the bridge.

How far again is it exactly from where they were dropped off to the bridge? Tia,

A 5 to 6 minute walk, roughly a 1/4 mile.

 

[MsBetsy]

I recently read a Law Enforcement Today article in which a former cold case homicide detective argues that there are only 3 motives for crime/murder:

1. financial greed
2. sexual/relational lust
3. pursuit of power (includes sense of respect, authority, embarassment, prestige & control).

In the presser Carter made it quite clear that LE believes that this case is about 'power/control' to BG. I'm wondering how that would be possible to know without LE knowing the psychological makeup of BG (hence, knowing his identity an having investigated him). Was it simply a process of elimination (no signs of robbery or SA)? Was it something about the way the bodies were left? Something he said in the audio captured by Libby's phone?

I'm guessing they base the killer's profile largely on what evidence they find at the crime scene, and in particular the way the murder was carried out.
They probably consider things like how long it may have taken for the victims to die, how he left the bodies, whether or not he took his time or acted in a frenzy, where he inflicted any wounds, how many injuries were inflicted before death, and likely so many other clues that we wouldn't know about.
From other cases I have read about it seems as if they can tell a lot about the suspect just based on the crime scene and the manner in which they were killed.

 

[Falling Down]

We may never know the answer but I’m thinking not as the only reference placed this person near the trail. I’ve wondered if it was a person seen walking on the highway near Delphi because early on there were questions pertaining to a possible hitchhiker and something about a backpack iirc.

I’m also curious, were the witnesses involved longtime local people who would’ve recognized most of the people they saw around and about that day - for example, their tips would identify at least some people by name who were sighted - as opposed to others from out of town just passing through who, at best, could only offer a general description of anybody they encountered.

Your observations jive with mine, regarding identification of people along the trails that day. Some of these folks would have recognized each other, or had seen them on the trails before.

I'm not aware that anyone who saw BG that day has a clue as to his identity, and LE have not mentioned anything about witnesses saying BG had been seen there before. He's a phantom of sorts, in my book. I think he lives close enough to the MHB to either be familiar with it or to have visited it in the not-so-distant past before the crimes. MOO is he had a fantasy in his mind which included the bridge area, and just about all of the variables worked out in his favor that day.

I think he lives in the surrounding area or region, but not right in or around Delphi. Which is why nobody recognized him.

JMO

 

[acutename]

In a world that's dominated by globalization, the lines separating language differences are becoming increasingly blurry. From television shows and movies to You Tube videos, international friends chatting online, and the fact that we're now traveling further and more than we ever have, IMO it's no longer as easy to say that in X location people ONLY use this or that word. I live in KY and I've seen several people say that in Kentucky we don't say X word, which is not my experience at all. Or that in X state, people don't use Y word. Travel around that state and you're going to find examples of people who use words or phrases that others do not. IMO the "guys" reference won't help any strangers determine which area BG is from, but it MIGHT help someone in his life recognize the manner in which he says the word.

I am really surprised that no one recognizes the voice. I was listening to the radio one day- a call in show- and an acquaintance- not even a close friend, called and I recognized the voice immediately. Even with bad audio and distortion, and admittedly, some people do have similar voices, I keep thinking that some one has heard BG before.

I do wonder though, if LE is relying on close friends and family, if BG has no close friends and minimal family and works some where that no one notices much- e.g. at night with a fork lift stocking pallets, or just driving a truck by himself, road work. There are a lot of labor or even computer jobs in which you do not need to have much personal interaction and no one would see your hair style or face. (remember when Adam Lanza died his hair ? Just had a memory of that.) JMO.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

No I have never heard,or think ever will hear of such a scenario.
But I am concerned if B G now feels things are closing in on him he might take this way out.

This thought has crossed my mind too, as I would hope it has LE’s as well. Hopefully when they go in to make an arrest they will be so stealth about it he won’t have time to carry through. I think the families deserve answers, justice, and whatever closure a trial, no matter how awful it may be to go through, will provide.

 

[x_files]

Even the organized serial killers like BTK, exhibit concerning and sometimes flat out disturbing behavior, while they are hiding in plain sight.

He bullied his co-workers, exhibited a temper (especially with women), and did horrible things to members of the public when he was working as an animal control officer (took a woman’s dog from her yard and put it down).

He’s not unique in this regard, and there are always signs.

They’re just hard to spot unless the context is right.

Those are deeply disturbing signs, I cannot imagine he was a joy to live with. It's sad when those red flags go unnoticed.

 

[MsBetsy]

I am really surprised that no one recognizes the voice. I was listening to the radio one day- a call in show- and an acquaintance- not even a close friend, called and I recognized the voice immediately. Even with bad audio and distortion, and admittedly, some people do have similar voices, I keep thinking that some one has heard BG before.

I do wonder though, if LE is relying on close friends and family, if BG has no close friends and minimal family and works some where that no one notices much- e.g. at night with a fork lift stocking pallets, or just driving a truck by himself, road work. There are a lot of labor or even computer jobs in which you do not need to have much personal interaction and no one would see your hair style or face. (remember when Adam Lanza died his hair ? Just had a memory of that.) JMO.

I'm not sure if the problem is that no-one has recognized his voice.
I think someone has and they are afraid or reluctant to come forward. Imo

 

[Falling Down]

I am really surprised that no one recognizes the voice. I was listening to the radio one day- a call in show- and an acquaintance- not even a close friend, called and I recognized the voice immediately. Even with bad audio and distortion, and admittedly, some people do have similar voices, I keep thinking that some one has heard BG before.

I do wonder though, if LE is relying on close friends and family, if BG has no close friends and minimal family and works some where that no one notices much- e.g. at night with a fork lift stocking pallets, or just driving a truck by himself, road work. There are a lot of labor or even computer jobs in which you do not need to have much personal interaction and no one would see your hair style or face. (remember when Adam Lanza died his hair ? Just had a memory of that.) JMO.

Good points. Some people choose those jobs for various reasons.

I've thought since about the first of the year that someone knows BG's identity. Now that we have the "guys" part of the audio, and the video, I'm convinced someone or some people know his identity. Someone has to know, at this point, or at least be suspicious about someone they know, and their whereabouts that day.

Here's another angle I've chewed on, since the beginning, and it would perhaps jive with BG's profile: There's a high likelihood the guy is not on social media. This is yet another reason why I cringe every time people post stuff on SM, here, etc., about someone who "looks like" a sketch or what have you.

My hunch is whoever BG is lurks in the shadows, posts anonymously on websites he likes or uses for gathering intel, etc. He could be here on WS, lurking. When he's caught, people in his life will probably be surprised.

JMO

 

[moonlessnight]

particularly that they are not - they are NOT -experiencing what they did when he left them in the woods. taking the power out of his actions.

good points and to add to that-maybe the REAL PLAN for the pc
was to insult or belittle perp into getting in touch with them.
BTK was so upset at LE not naming him (as BTK) that he was
out to prove what he had done and sent them a disc which
they tracked back to his church where he was an official and kept
many of his mementos from the crimes.
Think of all the put downs Supt. threw at the perp that day.
"Coward, little girls, control, etc.

 

[Inthedetails]

Oh dear Lord in Heaven this takes me right there. The fact they used the shoe color to identify says a great deal, and not good.

I think Libby put up a good fight and I hope she injured this b@stard. As a matter of fact, look for a miscreant Coward with a big chin (now covered by a beard) and an eye injury.

I hope you got him good on the way out girls. I bet you did.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I have the same reaction - why would they need to confirm the shoe color to know they found the girls??

jmo

 

[LadyL]

Charlie Keever and Jonathan Sellers

ETA killer’s name is Scott Erskine. I hate typing his name along with the names of his innocent victims

wasn't his first
he killed a woman in 1989 and the boys in 1993

Scott Erskine - Wikipedia

 

[susiQ]

"Directly to the killer who may be in this room..." indicates that they don't know who the killer is. That, and pretty much the rest of the press conference. It seems obvious that they need help identifying the killer because they don't know who it is. JMO.

We are all entitled to an opinion, within reason, and I believe mine is. Did you expect that if the killer was in the room that Carter would have said, "Directly, to the killer who IS IN THIS ROOM?" Unlikely. His speech was deliberate and so was anything that he deliberately left out or chose to leave vague. With respect, JMO

 

[MassGuy]

I have the same reaction - why would they need to confirm the shoe color to know they found the girls??

jmo

Clothing makes it easier.

Perhaps these searchers simply wanted to verify their identities, even though they knew who they found.

It looks like her, combined with the shoe color, makes preliminary identification pretty solid.

This ain’t unusual, and isn’t necessarily indicative of the extent of their injuries.