Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #98

[ZoriahNZ]

Agreed. I am stunned that so many people think police know who this is, yet are carrying on in “coded phrases” instead of skipping press conferences and addressing individuals close to him, as I believe would be the case.

JMO, but the reason for such a PC is to apply pressure, then watch for unusual behavior or reactions in POIs as the pressure is applied. They might not want to tip their hand yet. Openly approaching certain individuals would do that. They may already be conducting surveillance on a possible suspect and his immediate associates. We wouldn't know until an arrest is made, charges are laid and a trial happens. That doesn't stop them from following up interviews and re-testing alibis or questioning those in the possible suspect's circle of friends/family. For all we know, there may be people close to the perp already cooperating with the police but secretly, for obvious reasons.

 

[mtnlites]

So the local (and possibly speculative) aspect of the case has me thinking. Hopefully one of the investigators or members of the public will have an epiphany about the more local aspect of BG and his prior, or current, familiarity with the goings on in Delphi.

I just wonder. Did BG have some way of knowing the girls would be alone at the bridge? I have always thought he was random and stumbled across them, but maybe he wasn’t random.

I keep thinking about the Petit murders in Cheshire and how the guy saw Michaela and her mother in a grocery store and followed them home. Still, I think this was a random encounter, but that he went there with something on his mind.

 

[pepper 34]

I wanted to bring this over from previous thread (I expanded on post ) because I'm curious as to what others may think:

Which scenario, if any of these, is more likely?

The girls were forced at gunpoint down the hill and then ran at some point. They were the ones who knew where to cross the creek. Then he caught up with at least one of them..Abby? Abby was caught and Libby chose to stay and defend her friend (or visa versa). This would show that he lost control of the situation at some point and that there was an intense struggle between BG and at least one of the girls.

Or...
He knew the area well enough to know where to cross the creek and led the girls to the area where they were found. He had the spot and escape route all planned out. Maybe he even placed a duffel bag there ahead of time with "tools" and change of clothes. Early on I believe there was some talk of a "duffel bag".

Or..
Did they double back across the bridge and not cross the creek at all? If these murders weren't meticulously planned then maybe it is a possibility?

Does it even matter?

I had written my theory down on the last thread. I had the girls running away from the bridge while BG still had a good distance of bridge to travel. I had them crossing the creek and beginning to run up the hill towards the cemetery on 300N Road when BG caught up with them and told them, "Guys. Down the hill."

This morning I woke up having a major problem with my own theory. If it went the way I thought it had... BG would have been winded. He doesn't sound winded at all in Libby's recording. Back to the drawing board.

 

[cluciano63]

I feel the same way because Carter said,

"The family: I hope that you all will give them some time because we're going to be asking that there's no media inquiry or no media response for at least the next two weeks and I hope you understand why. The family found out about this about this information this morning."
And:
"Please be patient with us. Please. We're just beginning. We are, we are just now beginning."

I see nothing in those words that would make me think the 2 week mark will be anything other than a time when some media outlets might approach the families for media comments; after holding off from doing so for 2 weeks.

Time to absorb the shock of dismissing the primary suspect of two years. And he said “at least”two weeks, so not any planned timeframe.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

For anyone who wants to go back to the very first thread #1 ..

Found Deceased - IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1

Thanks NIN for the link to go back to the beginning. I wasn’t sure how to get back there.

 

[cluciano63]

I watched the Dr Phil show. Kelsi said she was out searching not too far from where the bodies were found. I recall her saying when the two bodies were discovered somebody yelled over to her to ask the shoe color in order to determine if the two bodies were indeed the two missing girls. Considering the shock and trauma of never expecting to find the two girls dead, IDing the bodies in that way is far more respectful than the alternative - asking her to go over, to have a look to tell them if that was her dead sister and sister’s friend. At that point the search would’ve been called off and LE notified.

Who else would they be? Why would on the spot identification be required anyway? None of it makes sense. Bodies found/contact police. Let them handle next steps.

 

[acutename]

I am so shocked that after all this time, BG's voice hasn't been recognized. I get that it's now difficult to put the voice with the face, since the face isn't the face we've been looking for.

It might almost be better if we didn't have the video and the sketches and all we had was a voice.

I think people are having a hard time putting all the pieces together.

The voice has always been the voice. No change there. It's the one and ONLY constant.

And the "figure" on the bridge has always been the same, but it's not really since "experts" seem to think that there are "things" under that jacket and that his pants might be hiding things too. So you are left with a visual that isn't really correct.

His gait isn't really his gait because of how he is walking on a bridge. LE have told us that.

We are supposed to look at his mannerisms as he's walking but this isn't really how he walks. The only mannerism I pick up on is "hands in pockets". He might walk toed out a bit but not that much.

Then we have the sketches that are totally different.

It's really hard to separate the two sketches now from the body and the voice. IMO very hard.

The only real constant is the voice. Now we need to somehow, apply that voice to the new sketch and forget totally about the old sketch. Voice and new sketch.

Somebody knows.

MOO

the thing about the sketch that I have to "remind" myself about is that his hair is supposed to be reddish brown- sort of light. the way it is drawn, it looks darker.

 

[mekeritrig]

Adding a vehicle description to the characteristics of BG that LE knows about is huge. Given that they know where the vehicle was and when, and from the footage during the search you can tell that they weren't pulling tire tracks or anything by the abandoned DCS building, its apparent that someone new has come forward with the description.

Its a numbers game when it comes to narrowing down suspects, and whatever suspect lists LE had prior to the new information coming in were probably narrowed down considerably when they started checking who had access to a matching vehicle. Having a vehicle description was famously one of the key factors in investigators being able to narrow down a massive number of suspects to find Ted Bundy. Every distinguishing characteristic of a suspect makes it more and more difficult to remain anonymous.

 

[stephlovescheese]

Perhaps the shoe was off her and in another location or maybe she was buried under leaves and twigs and the shoe was the only thing that was visible?

I’m thinking, too, that maybe she was wearing one of the many bright colored shoes that are so popular today, not your standard white tennies.

 

[zencompass]

Unlike Nuclear DNA which identifies one person uniquely, there have been cases where mtDNA or Y-chromosomeDNA have proven helpful. Certainly can narrow down the field of viable suspects.

Although, from the article (below), it is stated "Due to multiple relatives having the same Y-chromosome profile, unique identifications are not possible from Y-chromosome analysis", the odds towards a particular suspect increase drastically when there are few relatives living in that area.



"Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is a form of DNA that is transmitted from mother to child in a complete set; therefore, anyone in the maternal lineage will have the same mtDNA profile."

Y-chromosome DNA testing is a form of nuclear DNA testing that is specific to the male chromosome, also known as the Y-chromosome. This type of testing can be useful for sexual assaults, missing persons, and intelligence cases. The Y-chromosome is transmitted from father to son as a complete set; therefore, anyone in the paternal lineage will have the same Y-chromosome profile. Due to multiple relatives having the same Y-chromosome profile, unique identifications are not possible from Y-chromosome analysis.

DNA Casework — FBI

 

[Jabarn]

I keep thinking about the Petit murders in Cheshire and how the guy saw Michaela and her mother in a grocery store and followed them home. Still, I think this was a random encounter, but that he went there with something on his mind.

Yes, something maybe like that. There are so many scenarios where he might have crossed the girl’s path, by word or by actually seeing them at any point on the way and after they got there.

I still lean toward the latter, but as time goes by, wonder about other ways he came across the girls. The fact they were alone worked out in his favor, but did he know it before, or gain an understanding as he was hunting for anyone?

 

[cluciano63]

Everyone in my area knows who killed Brookelyn Farthing (she has a thread on WS). It's one of our worst open secrets. When LE talks about getting justice for her death (cause we know she's dead) it's always an appeal to those around the dude. He'll probably never talk unless one day he commits another crime and needs a bargaining tool. They seem to think that targeting the people in his life and appealing to them is the way to go. The only real evidence got destroyed so until someone squeals and can actually show someone where the bodies are, I'm afraid this will remain "unsolved." In this case, however, there's presumably more evidence than in Brookelyn's so it seems to me like they wouldn't have to rely on others so much. IMO they don't have a specific suspect for the Delphi murders, but they may have several ideas of what kind of person did it-perhaps even an idea of vocation. They just need someone to come forward and help them tie all of it together.

That seems quite different as I never got the impression the town of Delphi all “know”who the murderer is...jmo

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Brit here trying to catch on last two days....


Guys, Y'all the Young Dudes?

 

[cluciano63]

JMO, but the reason for such a PC is to apply pressure, then watch for unusual behavior or reactions in POIs as the pressure is applied. They might not want to tip their hand yet. Openly approaching certain individuals would do that. They may already be conducting surveillance on a possible suspect and his immediate associates. We wouldn't know until an arrest is made, charges are laid and a trial happens. That doesn't stop them from following up interviews and re-testing alibis or questioning those in the possible suspect's circle of friends/family. For all we know, there may be people close to the perp already cooperating with the police but secretly, for obvious reasons.

Then why even show the image? None of this is making sense to me...that police know who did it. I am convinced they would be quietly going after everyone who knows him, making attempts to get DNA, break alibis on their own, etc...not flinging words into the air. Jmo

 

[mtnlites]

That seems quite different as I never got the impression the town of Delphi all “know”who the murderer is...jmo

That was kind of my point. LE's wording and targeting seems to be much more different when they know who the perp is. I've seen them in action when that happens and it's not the same as what they were doing in the last PC, therefore I don't think they know.

 

[Heaven Leigh]

Delphi is such a small town ..unless BG has completely changed his looks, I cant see how he is still in that area. He has lucked out with a wrong sketch for 2 years. He could look totally different by now. I doubt he is still in Delphi. I know LE thinks he may be..I just don't see it.
The only way I see him being caught is by a friend or family member turning him in.
Lets just pray this comes sooner rather than later before he does this again.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wish I believed that was what he meant. Afraid to say I think it was aimed at people protecting the killer, so they could feel horror and disgust imagining what it meant. He was SO angry at that point in the presser. Just my (unfortunate) opinion.

Many people share your opinion so nothing wrong with that

I think horror and disgust are to be expected considering the fact a volatile maniac murdered two girls who were out for an innocent springtime walk taking photographs on a trail near where they lived.

Just for the fact the killer stole their lives from them, there’s no way for him to have left the bodies lying on the ground that would be construed as kind and considerate. Definitely not and that’s why I think nothing has to be read into Carter’s comment that could possibly be worse than the killer’s act of murdering two innocent girls, regardless of how he did it.

 

[acutename]

Perhaps the shoe was off her and in another location or maybe she was buried under leaves and twigs and the shoe was the only thing that was visible?

they probably were going to "process" the crime scene too- not just grab the body, so possibly the shoe was the first visible easily accessible item found.

 

[cody22]

Brit here trying to catch on last two days....


Guys, Y'all the Young Dudes?

I think the Dudettes outnumber the Dudes here......LOL !....moo

 

[pepper 34]

Even funnier when a transplanted Yankee says it for the first time lol.

Ok, I'll finally say something about "guys." I grew up less than 12 miles outside of Boston and all of us... every kid I knew called the other kids, "guys."

As in, "Hey, guys! You wanna play jump rope?"
And, you could even whine "guys" when you were feeling teased, as in,
"Yoooooo guyyyys! Stop it or telling!" (50's and 60's childhood and my mother did not approve the term)
... and my cousins in Illinois? Same thing.
ETA: discussed it with my sister just today and she said, "And we still say it."