Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams & Liberty (Libby) German - The Delphi Murders - #150 *ARREST*

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Chelly said:
Yes. Appears now that RA and KK could have known each other and shared some commonalities. Wonder how RA managed to live such a secret life and those close to him didn't become suspicious?
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I think it’s easier than people think to live a secret side life… was just talking about this with a group of friends. Shift work is a great cover and phones, etc… we want to trust people and have to really because anyone could be doing anything at any time. Life is so complicated and I believe even more so now for everyone. :(
 
FruitTingles said:
I agree with so much of this. LE believe keeping all of the evidence / info etc to themselves is crucial, and while it may very well be - but I do wonder how many more cases, including this one, would be solved/further along in the investigative process if they just chose to release more info than they originally do at the beginning of a case? It is frustrating to say the least. JMO
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Maybe, and this is just a thought...I have all the respect for L.E. Maybe there were mistakes made that they did not want the public to know about? I don't know...
 
TL4S said:
Lest we forget how RI described the CS.

Dr. Oz Delphi Murders Video: Robert Ives Transcript - CrimeLights

But on the other hand, the crime is so… it’s impossible to think of a motivation for the crime. Generally [in the past] when you have a murder in rural Indiana, this is Carroll County, the motive was obvious, the suspect was obvious. And in this case the two girls were murdered, and as I’ve told people the crime scene is very unusual. It’s all very strange.

...as I’ve told people if you arrived at this crime scene where the girls’ bodies were found, there were three or four physical characteristics at the crime scene that you would absolutely take pictures of.

And I’m not certain of the exact significance of these things, but they are very unusual.

Delphi Murders 3 Signatures: Robert Ives Interview Transcript from 'Down the Hill' Podcast - CrimeLights

All I can say about the situation with Abby and Libby is that there was a lot more physical evidence than at that crime scene. And it’s probably not what you would imagine, or what people think that I’m talking about, it’s probably not. And so because of unique circumstances, which all unique circumstances of a crime are a sort-of ‘signature’, you think “Well, this unusual fact might lead to somebody, or that unusual fact might lead to somebody”

People ask me do I think it will be solved and I do think it’ll be solved, because it’s so odd and so unusual and people are so compelled to talk about the terrible things they do.
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But ... what things?! Did Mr Ives ever say, or was it just a teaser?
 
I'm going to count myself in what appears to be a minority here. I don't think there are any connections from KK to RA. I think the KK line was developed independently based on the SM connections, and pursued vigorously on its own merits because as someone who interacted with one of the victims of course you become a suspect. I think it's messed-up coincidence in his sad and grotesque existence. Play with fire, right? I think all of his sketchy behavior after the fact is simply covering up for his crimes that we're already aware of. Luring and CSAM. I think the river searches came up as "Tell us where you dumped the materials and we'll plea-bargain with you, but you have to tell us everything."

I am willing to bet that RA was another lead that was developed on its own, likely from DNA left at the scene, or less likely, someone very close to him tipped off LE.

I'm also willing to bet that, like here, there are still some LE members who will have a tough time believing that KK isn't a part of the crime.

I could be wrong, and I guarantee there are people here who think I'm wrong right now. I think the reason I think this is that in most cases, people who commit crimes against children do not share that proclivity with others. Sure it happens, but I don't see RA and KK interacting in that type of way. I don't see RA trusting someone like KK with knowledge of his habits, mainly. I think he's a lone wolf. And I see KK as an opportunist who got caught up in a murder investigation because of his activities.
 
helpfulcharlie said:
I'm going to count myself in what appears to be a minority here. I don't think there are any connections from KK to RA. I think the KK line was developed independently based on the SM connections, and pursued vigorously on its own merits because as someone who interacted with one of the victims of course you become a suspect. I think it's messed-up coincidence in his sad and grotesque existence. Play with fire, right? I think all of his sketchy behavior after the fact is simply covering up for his crimes that we're already aware of. Luring and CSAM. I think the river searches came up as "Tell us where you dumped the materials and we'll plea-bargain with you, but you have to tell us everything."

I am willing to bet that RA was another lead that was developed on its own, likely from DNA left at the scene, or less likely, someone very close to him tipped off LE.

I'm also willing to bet that, like here, there are still some LE members who will have a tough time believing that KK isn't a part of the crime.

I could be wrong, and I guarantee there are people here who think I'm wrong right now. I think the reason I think this is that in most cases, people who commit crimes against children do not share that proclivity with others. Sure it happens, but I don't see RA and KK interacting in that type of way. I don't see RA trusting someone like KK with knowledge of his habits, mainly. I think he's a lone wolf. And I see KK as an opportunist who got caught up in a murder investigation because of his activities.
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I agree with you 100%. I will be shocked if RA and KK are connected.
As an aside, it’s truly frightening all the coincidences with other child predators in the area.
 
Tillicum said:
More updated info here.
heavy.com

Richard 'Ricky' Allen, Delphi Murders Suspect: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Richard "Ricky" Allen is an Indiana man charged in the 2017 murders of teen girls Abigail "Abby" Williams and Liberty "Libby" German in Delphi, police say.
heavy.com heavy.com

He worked at CVS, according to people who live in Delphi and have posted the information online because they’ve seen him at the store. There are screenshots in which a relative of German appears to confirm that he served them when they went to the CVS to get photographs printed for the girls’ funerals, and he gave the family them for free.

“Richard used to work at the Peru CVS. I would guess he was management there for a year or more. I’ve spoken with him multiple times in the Peru store,” a woman wrote on a true crime page devoted to the case on Facebook, referring to Peru, Indiana. She wrote that he “seemed nice and helpful, there was a small bad vibe inside.”

Neighbors expressed shock to friends as news of Richard Allen’s incarceration spread.

“My friend lives in his neighborhood and said he seemed nice and definitely not like a child murderer. She is freaked out!” wrote one woman in a true crime group devoted to the case on Facebook.
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So, he served them when they went to CVS for photo prints.

UGH, I wonder if he used his CVS store's photo lab to print or digitize out any other photos? Like crime scene photos.

CVS Photo Printing: Quick & Easy in One Hour Near You

Convenient and personalized photo printing at CVS. High-quality prints, gifts, and more. Enjoy same-day pickup and get your photos in one hour!
cvs-stores.minute-photo.com cvs-stores.minute-photo.com

Does CVS look at your pictures?
We take the privacy of your photos seriously. Images uploaded to our server for printing are not viewed by CVS. Only the photo technician in charge of printing and packaging your order will see the images. This person is responsible for ensuring the print quality.
 
I have to wonder if RA didn't seem phased at all in the pic with the sketch of "BG" behind him, at the bar, because he genuinely didn't think it looked anything like himself. I know different folks see different things, but I don't think it looks like him at all. Maybe he didn't either?

jmo
 
JudgeJudi said:
Who will ever forget Doug Carter's message to the killer in that presser:

“ To the killer who may be in this room – We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know, and one day you will. The question to you - what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls – two children. Only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least, they know because of how different you are since the murders”.

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Can you imagine truly knowing who you believe is responsible and being as tight lipped as this force has been? Kudos to them.
 
Jillyg said:
This was a really tough case to begin with. Then add the public pressure to DO SOMETHING and you get a lot of confirmation bias in LE and knee jerk reactions and desperate rabbit holes.

I'm not sure if they employed a good criminal profiler, but they should have. The "POI" that have been bandied about honestly have no rhyme or reason from a profiling perspective.
This dude is the only one i have seen that makes actual sense from a profiling standpoint (with TK possibly coming in second).
But that doesn't really help you find the person of you have nothing else to go on.
I think LE didn't give the public enough info and that BAFFLES me. If he had a gun to subdue them, then SAY SO! GOSH that would've been helpful. What clothing was missing? What in earth wouldn't they release that info? The tips they could've gotten just from that alone would have been so helpful.

I don't care how educated or experienced you are in investigations, if you don't have the "it" factor or the "nack" for it, you won't be very good at your job. And i assure you most that do it, don't have the nack for it. And the ones that do are usually ignored or pushed aside for more conventional methodology. The problem is that when the same old methods don't render results, then those without a nack for it are lost. That's how we get so many cold cases.
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Gumbeaux said:
I suspect you’re correct. I love and respect Doug Carter, but his form of communication rambles into prose instead of absolutes.
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Charlot123 said:
What is interesting, though, is whether RA is truly religious, or merely uses churchgoing to blend into rural America’s landscape. It would seem important in the context of “non-secular” crime scene described by Ives, and also, the fact that DC believed he could get through to the perp by alluding to his shreds of remorse, or his faith in interesting. Perhaps it doesn’t play the role, as very likely, RA is average in all areas but one.

It is also interesting what was RA’s final undoing. Robert Ives, who appeared logical and whose interview I thoroughly enjoyed, believed that the man had to repeat the crime to get caught.

But it seems to have been something else that led to him being caught. Either technology develops, and there is no such thing as the “perfect crime” anymore, or, during COVID, RA had to rely more on the internet, and it finally caught up with him?
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Even Jeffery Dahmer turned religious in the end when he had time to think when sober. Maybe this guy too? Perhaps he struggled and didn't repeat the crime knowing how lucky he'd been and everyone in Delphi and people all across the world we're watching and waiting. MOO
 
I’ve been rewatching a lot of Doug Carter’s old interviews & I’m really intrigued by his speaking directly to the killer over the years. I wonder if we will ever find out if this caused changes in the killer’s behaviour that led to slip ups. & I wonder if it was a strategy based on results of profiling, it must have been a strategic decision? Someone just posted for example a nationally televised Feb interview where Carter says (paraphrasing) “we we know a lot about you. Sleep well.” I wonder if comments like that made the killer behave in an unusually stressed out manner, get rid of evidence recently etc.
 
diggndeeperstill said:
Can you imagine truly knowing who you believe is responsible and being as tight lipped as this force has been? Kudos to them.
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"We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you." - Wow, if he is found guilty, that press conference has to go down as a turning point in modern policing tactics.

Wonder if he was in the room...
 
Heaven Leigh said:
He looks kinda thin in the pool table pic. To me his hair looks a little redish in the pic with beard.View attachment 376712
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What looks reddish is his skin. If it doesn’t get tanned but turns red under the sun, then, his hair were likely initially reddish.

ETA: while I assume KAK could be involved, I doubt these two were ever together. The contrast between tall, heavy KAK and RA would be too striking not to remember. So I can assume, any electronic communication is feasible, but real-life contact ton that day, unlikely. While posing and taking pictures to sell could theoretically be KAK’s idea, but IRL, I think all was done by RA for personal use.
 
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Figuring said:
I’ve been rewatching a lot of Doug Carter’s old interviews & I’m really intrigued by his speaking directly to the killer over the years. I wonder if we will ever find out if this caused changes in the killer’s behaviour that led to slip ups. & I wonder if it was a strategy based on results of profiling, it must have been a strategic decision? Someone just posted for example a nationally televised Feb interview where Carter says (paraphrasing) “we we know a lot about you. Sleep well.” I wonder if comments like that made the killer behave in an unusually stressed out manner, get rid of evidence recently etc.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that those press conferences were carefully choreography by the FBI's BAU. His words would have been chosen carefully.

<modsnip>
 
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gliving said:
So, he served them when they went to CVS for photo prints.

UGH, I wonder if he used his CVS store's photo lab to print or digitize out any other photos? Like crime scene photos.

CVS Photo Printing: Quick & Easy in One Hour Near You

Convenient and personalized photo printing at CVS. High-quality prints, gifts, and more. Enjoy same-day pickup and get your photos in one hour!
cvs-stores.minute-photo.com cvs-stores.minute-photo.com

Does CVS look at your pictures?
We take the privacy of your photos seriously. Images uploaded to our server for printing are not viewed by CVS. Only the photo technician in charge of printing and packaging your order will see the images. This person is responsible for ensuring the print quality.
Click to expand...
What stops any photo employee from looking at the prints? Serious question. I worked in a similar capacity long ago, before digital photos and computerization. It wasn't uncommon to see names I recognized on the envelopes.
 
This all has me reflecting on the nature of sleuthing. If (and right now it is "if") RA is guilty - and we have had 150+ threads, countless hundreds of smart committed people trawling open source information sources for any possible link - does it say something about the utility of open source intelligence and sleuthing in general?

I know I've been super frustrated by some cases, but then there have been others that have turned up something possibly life-changing for a victim. I just feel like ... with all the focus and smarts put on this case - on WS and other sites - doesn't it just show, glaringly, that open source intel is utterly useless when it comes to a cunning murderer?

JMO, and I'm genuinely asking the question here; I don't want to be this jaded, but sleuthing has a way of getting to you.
 
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