Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams & Liberty (Libby) German - The Delphi Murders - #151 *ARREST*

[gliving]

Man, this is a toss-up for me. Lone wolf vs. CSAM ring - I still don't really have any idea. I was surprised to hear the news. My first reaction was, "who?" Is that because someone fed MS some info to distract (majorly) the public with this other valid avenue of investigation (which also serves to demonstrate just how complex the onion is when you start peeling back the layers on small-town IN) while ISP finished up? I have no idea. My unscientific hunch is that there is a ring and it is somehow involved, even if only tangentially. There are too many coincidences, IMO, for them to all be coincidences. They - ahem - "stack and stack." The fact that he worked at a CVS in Peru at one time (per more than one source linked upthread) is like, "Oh sure. Sure he did. Just big coinkydink. No way JBC and KAK bought snax and liquor there." There is something ROTTEN in IN. (Said as a Hoosier.)

Did we already talk about this? It came basically a day or 2 before the detainment. Synopsis on thoughts? I wanted to check in here on this but was traveling, and then everything blew up. Sheriff’s deputy claims demotion over Delphi murders investigation

Yes, the whole deputy suing Carroll County is concerning. Plus the upcoming election next week. I can't ignore the niggling feeling that timing of the arrest is politically motivated. Something about it seems sudden. Hope the DA crossed all his Ts. By the way, who is the Carroll County District Attorney? Who signed the warrant?

Sheriff race is one of few contested campaigns in Carroll County

One Republican and one Independent candidate are making their case to become Carroll County's next sheriff.

www.wlfi.com

Overcrowding at the jail, as well as the Flora arson and Delphi homicides, are among the biggest issues facing the sheriff's office.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

JMVHO, I wouldn’t be worried or anxious that RMA isn’t talking.
I’m 99.99999999% sure that ISP/LE would not have arrested anyone in connection with this case if they didn’t have an airtight case. e.g. multiple irrefutable pieces of evidence to pin RMA to the wall.

 

[Argonaut]

MOO Unlikely a car was driven to the south end of the MHB as it’s a private drive.
It is possible to do, but it is a private drive with houses along the way.
MOO in rural places cars are heard and noticed going down drives etc.

Plus cars are hard to hide where a bicycle could easily be hidden. Or walk the short distance. I believe that there are most likely pathways through the woods and the woods would provide cover, even from the air. If he planned ahead, even an hour, he could have hidden a change of clothing along the way or even donned a pair of coveralls. I don't know if he mountain biked or hunted but I did see some info on his possibly being an angler. I bet he if familiar with the wooded are across the street from where he lives. I'd love to walk those woods. Also...as far as getting by any fences near the highway usually one can just walk the stream past any fences. One of the victim's parents lived near Bridge Creek and would have been very near to any wooded pathways. In a small town like Delphi almost all citizens are going to be at the CVS sooner or later and prescriptions expose addresses.

 

[MassGuy]

JMVHO, I wouldn’t be worried or anxious that RMA isn’t talking.
I’m 99.99999999% sure that ISP/LE would not have arrested anyone in connection with this case if they didn’t have an airtight case. e.g. multiple irrefutable pieces of evidence to pin RMA to the wall.

Yeah, there's just no way they would arrest him if they required a confession. They've been super cautious this whole way, and I can't imagine that's suddenly changed.

I do wonder if maybe they interviewed him around the time his property was searched though.

 

[Chelly]

Good recap there, including the various types of charges he could face.

People were wondering about the involvement of the US Marshals, and that's addressed too:

The FBI, which played a lead role in the opening days of the investigation, will not be represented at the briefing.

The U.S. Marshal typically tracks fugitives or wanted suspects who flee across state lines to avoid apprehension, though neither criteria which would accurately describe events surrounding Allen’s arrest last week.

Marshals do, however, often provide electronic device tracking and analysis expertise to local investigations.

US Marshals Service also manages National Sex Offender Targeting Center (NSOTC).

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Yeah, there's just no way they would arrest him if they required a confession. They've been super cautious this whole way, and I can't imagine that's suddenly changed.

I do wonder if maybe they interviewed him around the time his property was searched though.

Which then begs the question… what does he need to cooperate with? Why make the “not cooperating” statement?

Maybe they are hoping for a guilty plea much like with Ayoola Ajayi in the Mackenzie Lueck case to spare family.

 

[ReadySet]

Wow, I hadn't seen this:

Investigators to announce charges versus Delphi murders suspect

DELPHI, Ind. — When Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter steps up before the microphones of reporters from across the country at the Delphi United Methodist Church Monday morning at 10 a…

fox59.com

Meanwhile, Delphi residents said they often saw Allen in their community, either working at a local pharmacy or dining out with his wife.

“One of my servers was telling me that he wouldn’t speak much; his wife would order the food and that they would split it,” said Chandler Underhill, General Manager at the Brick & Mortar Pub. “He didn’t really speak.”

He wouldn't even order food? He split a meal so he wouldn't have to order and therefore speak? Or maybe he was just trying to save money...

 

[MassGuy]

Which then begs the question… what does he need to cooperate with? Why make the “not cooperating” statement?

Maybe they are hoping for a guilty plea much like with Ayoola Ajayi in the Mackenzie Lueck case to spare family.

I think a reporter probably asked something to the effect of "has he confessed?" and a source told them that he wasn't talking.

 

[Inthedetails]

I remember searching google earth for shacks in the woods around the crime scene because I could not believe anyone would kill them out in the open like that.

I remember thinking there had to be a shed where the girls were taken. I still sorta wonder.....

 

[Gardenista]

I remember thinking there had to be a shed where the girls were taken. I still sorta wonder.....

Same. Like maybe they went to a shack while it was daylight, then when it was dark they all walked back with the girls thinking they were going home, but he killed them on the way back to the bridge.

 

[crussell821]

Up to date and heading to bed.
See you all here tomorrow at 10am.

 

[zoomom2]

I think they were killed in the same area they were found, and their bodies were dragged and posed.

A secondary crime scene just doesn't work for me based on the amount of blood they found.

The search warrant application reveals never-before-discussed details about the crime scene and how the girls were found.

“A large amount of blood was lost by the victims at the crime scene,” the FBI agent wrote.

The warrant also reveals that two articles of clothing from one of the girls “…was missing from the crime scene while the rest of their clothing was recovered. It also appeared the girls’ bodies were moved and staged.”

FBI search warrant raises questions about Delphi property owner's arrest

DELPHI, Ind. (WISH) — I-Team 8 broke the news on Tuesday about an FBI search warrant that reveals new details about the Delphi murder scene and what the killer of Abby Williams and Libby German may have taken from the property. I-Team 8 has pieced together new information about Ronald Logan, the...

www.wishtv.com

Can I say that if any of his blood (or dna ) was mixed in with theirs, LE could/WILL find it. Can I also say that the CODIS data base only has the dna of CONVICTED Perpetrators THEMSELVES, and NOT Familial DNA. (There are different levels of testing protocols!) If you commit a crime and haven't been convicted of it - your DNA isn't in the CODIS data base at all. And if your brother commited a crime, his DNA will be in CODIS but there will be NO connection to you. That's when they need to go to deep genealogy dna (Genetic Genealogy, or Investigative genealogy.)

 

[steeltowngirl]

I think it was something very big, like blood evidence.
Or that they found an article of clothing/jewelry belonging to one of the girls in his possession ?
But I'm going more with something with dna.
M00

I am praying they have a conclusive DNA match. Will be interesting to learn how it was obtained from RA. Anyone recall this?

Tracking Down BTK

Wichita District Attorney Nola Foulston spent almost 20 years chasing the serial killer who called himself BTK, for "Bind, Torture, Kill." When she started in the 1970s, no one was using DNA evidence. But by 2005, when she felt she was closing in on her man, familial DNA connections were a key part of the investigator's toolkit.

Foulston had samples of the killer's DNA from crime scenes, and she had a strong suspicion that BTK was a man named Dennis Rader. She needed to know whether Rader's DNA matched the killer's. But police couldn't just walk up to Rader and ask him for a sample.

"They didn't have everything they needed at that point to take him into custody," Foulston says, "so you'd be leaving a guy out there with his DNA sample hanging out. And he was not inactive. He continued to plan homicides up until the day that we caught him."

The team learned that Rader's daughter had recently been in the hospital for a pap smear. Under a judge's order, the hospital gave investigators a sample of the daughter's DNA. In 24 hours, the results came back. It was a familial match. That's all police needed to pick up Dennis Rader.

Police Use DNA to Track Suspects Through Family

Law-enforcement investigators regularly use partial DNA matches to track down criminal suspects through family members who are already in a DNA databank. But critics say such genetic matches go against the notion that a person's DNA is inherently private.

www.npr.org

 

[RetiredEE]

Plus cars are hard to hide where a bicycle could easily be hidden. Or walk the short distance. I believe that there are most likely pathways through the woods and the woods would provide cover, even from the air. If he planned ahead, even an hour, he could have hidden a change of clothing along the way or even donned a pair of coveralls. I don't know if he mountain biked or hunted but I did see some info on his possibly being an angler. I bet he if familiar with the wooded are across the street from where he lives. I'd love to walk those woods. Also...as far as getting by any fences near the highway usually one can just walk the stream past any fences. One of the victim's parents lived near Bridge Creek and would have been very near to any wooded pathways. In a small town like Delphi almost all citizens are going to be at the CVS sooner or later and prescriptions expose addresses.

I don't know about pharm techs, but I'd hazard a guess that they can access the same medical history on customers that the pharmacist can.

One thing that might have drawn attention is if CVS or other medical entity happened to note unusual or unauthorized attempts to access the victims medical history.

KAK giving him up is more likely, but anything's possible.

moo.

 

[Charlot123]

If the arrest was a result of their actual investigations, they'll be braying about it from the rooftops and we'll get a good bit of info.

If it was a lucky break, they'll be tight lipped as they have all along to "protect the integrity of the case".

I think the detectives were coming close to the truth, methodically. And when it happens, someone may well be prompted to give the right tip.

Using the metaphor, the best way to catch a chameleon in the house is to switch on bright light. I think somehow, LE did switch it on, and even if the lucky break happened, the timing of it was surprisingly right.

 

[Gardenista]

I am praying they have a conclusive DNA match. Will be interesting to learn how it was obtained from RA. Anyone recall this?

Tracking Down BTK

Wichita District Attorney Nola Foulston spent almost 20 years chasing the serial killer who called himself BTK, for "Bind, Torture, Kill." When she started in the 1970s, no one was using DNA evidence. But by 2005, when she felt she was closing in on her man, familial DNA connections were a key part of the investigator's toolkit.

Foulston had samples of the killer's DNA from crime scenes, and she had a strong suspicion that BTK was a man named Dennis Rader. She needed to know whether Rader's DNA matched the killer's. But police couldn't just walk up to Rader and ask him for a sample.

"They didn't have everything they needed at that point to take him into custody," Foulston says, "so you'd be leaving a guy out there with his DNA sample hanging out. And he was not inactive. He continued to plan homicides up until the day that we caught him."

The team learned that Rader's daughter had recently been in the hospital for a pap smear. Under a judge's order, the hospital gave investigators a sample of the daughter's DNA. In 24 hours, the results came back. It was a familial match. That's all police needed to pick up Dennis Rader.

Police Use DNA to Track Suspects Through Family

Law-enforcement investigators regularly use partial DNA matches to track down criminal suspects through family members who are already in a DNA databank. But critics say such genetic matches go against the notion that a person's DNA is inherently private.

www.npr.org

Holy crap, it's great they got him, but I don't like how they got their sample.

 

[Jillyg]

I think the detectives were coming close to the truth, methodically. And when it happens, someone may well be prompted to give the right tip.

Using the metaphor, the best way to catch a chameleon in the house is to switch on bright light. I think somehow, LE did switch it on, and even if the lucky break happened, the timing of it was surprisingly right.

You could very well be correct!

 

[Boxer]

I remember thinking there had to be a shed where the girls were taken. I still sorta wonder.....

MOO too little time. a-They would have to walk to and back to the CS from the shed
Maybe a shed on his exit route for getting out of and stashing wet bloody clothes.

 

[Inthedetails]

No matter what legal wrangling comes up, no matter the sure-to-happen delays, he will never, ever have another moment of freedom for the rest of his life.

edited to add: jmo

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Yeah, there's just no way they would arrest him if they required a confession. They've been super cautious this whole way, and I can't imagine that's suddenly changed.

I do wonder if maybe they interviewed him around the time his property was searched though.

Exactly.

I’ve also been wondering if they interviewed him. I wonder how RMA was feeling, thinking, perhaps worrying? Did he know at that point that he was caught? How did he continue to go to work like it was no big deal? Obviously, imo, he was quite stoic. Or at the very least on the outside.
And to think that his neighbors thought it was no big deal with LE coming and going, digging in his yard and so on. Really, REALLY? He certainly had them fooled or his neighbors were obtuse, or both.