IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #12

[Jethro4WS]

If someone knows the width of the bridge rail ties, we could get an estimate of height from the images of him on the bridge. Take his image (original and unskewed) and compare to the slat he is walking on.

Standard railroad ties, at least since 1904 are 8 feet across

 

[Jabarn]

Credit to Gray Hughes-

Flow of Crime-Part 2
[video=youtube;_TFz4citG68]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TFz4citG68[/video]

Were there two crime scenes? One on the bridge side of the creek and I assume from this video, one on the far side where the bodies were found?

 

[tokyorose]

I don't know if you were already answered, but the last section talks about DNA records of RSO's. They do indeed catalogue all offenders.

https://www.in.gov/judiciary/probation/files/prob-sex-offender-changes06.pdf


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Thank you so much! So if they are serving search warrants on RSO's then it must mean they don't have their DNA evidence back yet... which would fit in with my hunch.

 

[TTF14]

Yes and why bother crossing the creek.. it's just as secluded down on the creek bottom either side.

IF they did cross the creek (there's no other way to get over there?? I'm just asking), this is a VERY good point. Was it easier for him to escape from that location? If so, why? Who would know this? Where would he have gone?

 

[stormymama]

Yes, IMO the bodies got there because they never crossed the creek.

I'm with you. I know "we" have discussed ad nauseum jeans, hat vs. hoodie, etc but are we absolutely SURE which way the girls and BG exited the bridge?

 

[Tillicum]

After seeing the area in the video I'm really puzzled over this. I can understand how they crossed the water but not why. And yes, I realize it's something that only the murderer(s) can answer but it does make me wonder if there was some sort of significance to that spot. Both sides of the river are secluded so it probably wasn't for privacy. I just don't know. Maybe they did it to intimidate the girls psychologically or maybe they felt it would be harder for the girls to run.

Ugh. Whatever the reason, my heart aches when I think of the terror Abigail and Liberty felt.

You leave no tracks in water. Back in the old days it was common practice to use waterways to hide your trail.

ETA And scent.

 

[Justice101]

IF they did cross the creek (there's no other way to get over there?? I'm just asking), this is a VERY good point. Was it easier for him to escape from that location? If so, why? Who would know this? Where would he have gone?

You can get there from the other side.. just turn right after the end of the bridge and go straight across 0.2 miles then you have to go DOWN THE HILL (just like you have to do on the other side) to get to where the bodies were found. Either side of the bridge you have to drop 25 feet to get to the level of the creek.

 

[popsicle]

That would be interesting to see. I'm not finding anything like that at the link that you put, though.

Maybe this.. credit Starkweather

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=110668&stc=1

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=110669&stc=1

 

[verbonica]

Link works for me. Check your Java or make sure you don't have any blockers enabled (?)

The link works, I see a WS page...

Ok, I found it, post #122. I had to search for "gif", since no variations of "walk" came up. Thank you.

 

[Jethro4WS]

What I saw the water seemed deeper than shallow it's also cold.
Is there another way to get them there?

Also if there are sand bars it will be worse than walking through mud. Not to mention whatever current there is.

 

[SilentRogue]

Thank you so much! So if they are serving search warrants on RSO's then it must mean they don't have their DNA evidence back yet... which would fit in with my hunch.

Good point! Although, it's also possible that the DNA they've gotten back is no match because it wasn't from the assailant. I.e a cigarette butt not from the assailant...


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[NancyDrew007]

This is a reply to @harleymae about if she had an iPhone or Android. Very good point. There is no confirmation on which type of phone Libby had. I am so glad you pointed out that Android phones don't need Wifi to backup data.

I guess we are back to square one on whether the suspect found the phone or not. I feel like if he was tech savvy he would have known she had a phone and grabbed it and destroyed it.


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[Rosewater20]

I don't think he is as heavy as he appears in the photos
Baggy jeans hoodie and coat over whatever else he has stuffed in there makes him appear stocky or heavy.
I don't think he is.

Jmo

. Plus photos can be deceiving depending on the angles. Everyone has personal experience of this .. some can make you look slimmer or much larger and all taken on the same day. Outfits do make a difference too . However I think the suspect is well built

 

[tokyorose]

I'm with you. I know "we" have discussed ad nauseum jeans, hat vs. hoodie, etc but are we absolutely SURE which way the girls and BG exited the bridge?

I do not think they crossed the creek. Would be noisy and risky for the killer, what if he lost his footing? Dropped is gun in the H2o (assuming he had a gun which he did IMO). It's too bad they didn't go that way because it would have been a very good way for the girls to escape JMO.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

Are they also in the media thread? I ask because in order to stop auto refresh, I had to disable Java which I need to watch Gray's videos.....

And I reeeeeaaallllyyy wanna!!!!!

Glad to hear that disabling Java worked for you. I go back and forth all the time.

 

[monkeypants]

Doesn't seem like it would be easy to do know what I mean?

Looked fairly easy when the LE was doing it in all honesty...

 

[yupikgirl]

iPhones don't require wifi for photos and videos to the cloud. A full backup requires wifi.

Also depends on users settings. So many variables. In any event they ether have the phone or have access to the cloud if it's an iPhone.

Edited to add-
I literally just took a photo and then logged into my cloud- it's there. That was with data - turned my wifi off. I had read also wifi was needed, but that's for the full iCloud backup.

imo she had an iPhone based on grandpas words. (I.e. Delivered but not read texts)

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[Justice101]

Not to be dismissive, but there is a lot of overthink going on in these threads. Most of the time the most logical explanation is the right explanation. No one is going to force 2 girls and themselves to cross a creek like that when it is secluded either side equally. Very easy for the guy or girls to lose balance and fall. It's a big risk for the perp...whether they are alive.. or whether he is dragging bodies across the river. And it's easy to get spotted if the perpetrator leaves the concealment of the trees. In my opinion, the whole crime happened on the north side of the creek. LE in the creek is looking for a weapon or other evidence thrown there.

Look at the hill coming down from the cemetery on the north.. It is a perfect location where distance isolation from civilization plus the shoulders of a natural funnel in the hill, make for a perfect location.

 

[teeandcee]

Also if there are sand bars it will be worse than walking through mud. Not too mention whatever current there is.

I live in Missouri, and what we have are gravel bars. That's probably what they are. It's easy walking.

 

[Suglo]

I personally find it hard to believe that he would risk making the girls go back over the bridge. Anyone could have been walking up the trail to the bridge and foiled his plan. I find it easier to believe he made them wade across the creek through one of the shallow parts that has sandbars.