IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #13

[heidi76]

I drove to Delphi today and checked everything out. It's changed my mind about everything I've thought so far. I'm driving now. Will post the pictures when I get home.


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That would be great! Appreciated

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[margarita25]

Hell to the yes.My husband is 56 years old.

(Don't forget, I dress like this too sometimes :facepalm: )

(Eta: I obviously have nothing more to add at this point if I'm cracking the same "I wear old man jeans" joke...alright then, guess I'll take the doggies to the park, poor guys have been missing their playtime since all this broke...I finally cleaned this pigsty hiuse last night, dear Lord...and actually cooking somethiny...)

Good luck sleuthing folks. Will check in soon!

 

[DavidC]

I drove to Delphi today and checked everything out. It's changed my mind about everything I've thought so far. I'm driving now. Will post the pictures when I get home.


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Can't wait to get your take. Thank you.

 

[Meggzwell]

HI Everyone. I couldn't remember my old sign in / said the email wasn't recognized so I created a new account.


Anyway, I have been looking at that photo of the suspect and was wondering if his face is partially obscured by a "real tree cammo " bandana. Sorry if that's been discussed (I haven't went through all of the threads yet) and he could of used it to either bind them together for control or as the cause of death (strangulation) all is just my opinion/speculation

 

[Elley Mae]

I believe the girls were supposed to be picked up between 3:00 and 3:30. Family reported them missing to LE after a brief search.

Correct, they were reported missing at 5:30. Got the two times confused.

 

[kizzykat]

Hello, WS. I've been following this case since it broke. It hits too close to home on multiple levels. I have so many thoughts and questions but foremost is sympathy to the loved ones of Abby and Libby. It's impossible to fathom the depth of their grief and pain.
Watching the press conference and seeing all the various levels of LE gathered behind the podium in a strong & unified presence is the point I became pretty convinced that they are looking at a possible SK. I wasn't aware of the Lyric and Elizabeth murders in Iowa until Libby's and Abby's deaths and see there are eerie similarities. Which leads me to a nagging question that I haven't seen mentioned yet. There was a slip made by the FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Mr. Massa during the PC. I've linked to a video below. I'm using this clip because the camera angle shows the subtle reaction of the man on Mr Massa's right. It's hard to tell if he's thinking 'you weren't supposed to mention that date' or simply 'uh oh, you said the wrong date'. Mr Massa begins speaking at about the 12:57 mark. He states the date February 13th a couple times. At the 15:30 mark he says "May 13th". Maybe my brain is reading way too much into it, perhaps it was just an innocent slip. What I'm wondering is if any of you here know of a similar unsolved crime committed on the date of May 13th? I've googled but have yet to come up with anything.
[video=youtube;P1uSKrtYdDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1uSKrtYdDw[/video]

 

[Gunther Toody]

Where did the trio cross back across Deer Creek?

Lets dig a little further.

I don't know exactly where in Deer Creek this data comes from but this chart indicates that on the day the girls were killed the gage height (measured height) of Deer Creek was nearly four feet.

https://waterdata.usgs.gov/in/nwis/...od=&begin_date=2017-02-12&end_date=2017-02-26



Even if it was not consistent throughout there was significant depth to that creek on that day.

Why would he force the girls to walk through flowing water just to get to the other side?
There is more wooded area on the Southern side...

 

[margarita25]

Can't wait to get your take. Thank you.

(What? New pictures from a local? Sorry doggies, playtime will have to wait. Jk)

 

[IndependentFeed]

So the pix taken were on the high bridge that runs over LAND. I think the word bridge was one part of my problem. I think bridge and I think over water.

It was the former rail line, up high, right?

The pix were taken on the non trail side. Over land.

?????

Yes the pictures were taken above land to the south, you can see the water behind her in the one picture. The next shot is taken further down the path, notice trees are growing on the sides in the shot without her. You can also see a plank sticking out to the side, those planks are built every 140 feet or so alternating sides each 140 feet (giving you some idea of her position) that particular plank has an additional set of wood attached to it which not all do, giving you more of an idea of which part of the bridge it is (this specific plank is about 400 feet from the end of the south side of the bridge). If the shot was taken near the water, you wouldn't be able to see trees growing on the sides. The further south you go on the bridge the more trees are growing as it's not as high off of land & water isn't flowing which prevents the trees from growing.

 

[Spellbound]

Iirc < if I remember correctly. Yes i think the girls were to meet and get picked up 4:30-5:30 & didn't someone went to or called LE <law enforcement, they searched till it got to dark. Thinking they were lost. Iirc some family members did continue to search but didn't find them. As you can see from map posted above(#454) that area being off the trail whwere they were found was but looked. Iirc a resident from the area was involved on the 14th found. But not the land owner. Jmo

previously posted by member cJVW: (sorry, I don't know which post # it was)

1:00pm Girls last seen
2:07pm Snap Chat photo of Abby, taken by Libby
2:30pm BG last scene (likely on Libby's phone)
3/3:30pm Girls supposed to be picked up, did not show
5:30pm Girls reported missing
12:00am Search called off for night, family did not stop searching
? Sunrise Family and friends resume search
11:45am LE search resumes
12:00pm ISH (??) girls' bodies found

 

[skibaboo]

Here's the link. Nothing is posted.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224501

I think it's ok to say, "Hey, check out the scanner." But not ok to discuss what you hear.

That is correct. It's ok to say check it out and post the link but that is it. It's like Vagas. What you hear down there, stays down there.

I don't think anything relevant will be heard, from past experience it will be on a private channel

 

[heidi76]

Hello, WS. I've been following this case since it broke. It hits too close to home on multiple levels. I have so many thoughts and questions but foremost is sympathy to the loved ones of Abby and Libby. It's impossible to fathom the depth of their grief and pain.
Watching the press conference and seeing all the various levels of LE gathered behind the podium in a strong & unified presence is the point I became pretty convinced that they are looking at a possible SK. I wasn't aware of the Lyric and Elizabeth murders in Iowa until Libby's and Abby's deaths and see there are eerie similarities. Which leads me to a nagging question that I haven't seen mentioned yet. There was a slip made by the FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Mr. Massa during the PC. I've linked to a video below. I'm using this clip because the camera angle shows the subtle reaction of the man on Mr Massa's right. It's hard to tell if he's thinking 'you weren't supposed to mention that date' or simply 'uh oh, you said the wrong date'. Mr Massa begins speaking at about the 12:57 mark. He states the date February 13th a couple times. At the 15:30 mark he says "May 13th". Maybe my brain is reading way too much into it, perhaps it was just an innocent slip. What I'm wondering is if any of you here know of a similar unsolved crime committed on the date of May 13th? I've googled but have yet to come up with anything.
[video=youtube;P1uSKrtYdDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1uSKrtYdDw[/video]

Interesting, and welcome to WS!

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[raeann]

Could someone explain why there are many posts referring to the Bridge Guy as an "older person"? Did LE or another source list an approx. age range? I ask this because it would be unusual for an "older" person to walk across a precarious or uneven surface with their hands in their pockets. Most older folks prefer to have their hands free as a means of improving their balance or to catch themselves should they trip---especially on a rough or uneven surface such as these wood rails or beams.

 

[EllieBee]

Yeah those cases were completely sick. But, they were held captive for long periods of time. I'm not ruling out a significant other helping because who knows, but IMO I think he acted alone.


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Bernardo/Homolka....

But I agree BG probably acted alone. MOO.

 

[heidi76]

Could someone explain why there are many posts referring to the Bridge Guy as an "older person"? Did LE or another source list an approx. age range? I ask this because it would be unusual for an "older" person to walk across a precarious or uneven surface with their hands in their pockets. Most older folks prefer to have their hands free as a means of improving their balance or to catch themselves should they trip---especially on a rough or uneven surface such as these wood rails or beams.

Good question. Personally, I couldn't walk on such a precarious bridge with a cavalier attitude.

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[cattlekate]

Regarding how BG lured the girls down the hill, I know it's been discussed already and I really think this is the right direction: I think the girls were searching for a geocache and he offered to help them find it. There was a geocache hidden on the underside of the bridge, IIRC.

Perhaps he then told them he knew of another cache and lured them to the location where he killed them. That is the scenario I am envisioning. I don't think he grabbed them, threatened them, or had control over them until they reached the remote spot, not on the bridge or on the path.

It's my guess that Libby was at first recording either because she felt weird about him.....or maybe because she was recording to document the adventure of finding the cache.

JMOPINION at the moment

This is what I was thinking the other night, as there are caches in cemeteries. Maybe this was a new cache. Maybe this was where a SM contact was supposed to be. But that convo has been moved on from, I guess.

I cannot accept the idea that BG was able to control, subdue, and march two athletic young girls, who are not in restraints, to the north bank with just using a gun or knife. Whether from the SE side or NW side. So that's why I'm speculating maybe he impersonated a cop. Just MOO.

 

[Castlinghigh]

Were there scent dogs used, perhaps to pick up BG's trail?

 

[Meggzwell]

Hello, WS. I've been following this case since it broke. It hits too close to home on multiple levels. I have so many thoughts and questions but foremost is sympathy to the loved ones of Abby and Libby. It's impossible to fathom the depth of their grief and pain.
Watching the press conference and seeing all the various levels of LE gathered behind the podium in a strong & unified presence is the point I became pretty convinced that they are looking at a possible SK. I wasn't aware of the Lyric and Elizabeth murders in Iowa until Libby's and Abby's deaths and see there are eerie similarities. Which leads me to a nagging question that I haven't seen mentioned yet. There was a slip made by the FBI Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Mr. Massa during the PC. I've linked to a video below. I'm using this clip because the camera angle shows the subtle reaction of the man on Mr Massa's right. It's hard to tell if he's thinking 'you weren't supposed to mention that date' or simply 'uh oh, you said the wrong date'. Mr Massa begins speaking at about the 12:57 mark. He states the date February 13th a couple times. At the 15:30 mark he says "May 13th". Maybe my brain is reading way too much into it, perhaps it was just an innocent slip. What I'm wondering is if any of you here know of a similar unsolved crime committed on the date of May 13th? I've googled but have yet to come up with anything.
[video=youtube;P1uSKrtYdDw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1uSKrtYdDw[/video]

Amazing attention to detail!!!!! IMO. From what I've learned in criminal profiling class (forensics student here) I believe there is a chance of a SK

On an other note, the officer who spoke before the agent was visably distraught , make sure me cringe to think what Libby recorded

 

[heidi76]

This is what I was thinking the other night, as there are caches in cemeteries. Maybe this was a new cache. Maybe this was where a SM contact was supposed to be. But that convo has been moved on from, I guess.

I cannot accept the idea that BG was able to control, subdue, and march two athletic young girls, who are not in restraints, to the north bank with just using a gun or knife. Whether from the SE side or NW side. So that's why I'm speculating maybe he impersonated a cop. Just MOO.

I agree.

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[Meenah]

Could someone explain why there are many posts referring to the Bridge Guy as an "older person"? Did LE or another source list an approx. age range? I ask this because it would be unusual for an "older" person to walk across a precarious or uneven surface with their hands in their pockets. Most older folks prefer to have their hands free as a means of improving their balance or to catch themselves should they trip---especially on a rough or uneven surface such as these wood rails or beams.

Many think he's an older person because of his attire.