IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #16

[TTF14]

Indiana Code 10-13-6-10 - Certain convicted persons to provide DNA sample

A person convicted of a felony under Indiana Code 35-42, offenses against the person, shall provide DNA sample if convicted (1) after 30 June, 1996 where or not sentenced to prison; (2) before 1 July, 1996, if the person is held in jail or prison on or after July 1, 1996.

So, based on what the age of the perp appears to be, there could be a LOT of prior sex offenders out there not on the registry because their crimes/time served occurred pre-1996.

 

[Alison]

ONE BIG QUESTION: How could law enforcement conclude that the fuzzy picture of the guy on the bridge was no longer a witness they wanted to talk to, but had become a suspect. Is that just careful wording???? Or is there something they could have found (like his blue jacket) at the crime scene to make them switch to suspect? I'm still hung up on that. Help me think thru this!!!

I think they thought of him as a suspect the whole time but were trying to trick him (into coming forward) by making it sound like harmless info seeking.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865576611/New-DNA-testing-could-take-hours-not-weeks.html

Law enforcement officers can now run 90-minute DNA tests that once required weeks or months to complete, thanks to a new testing tool that could immediately point to suspects or help those who had nothing to do with a crime.

This info (90 minutes) is from 2013. Might be even quicker now.

 

[TTF14]

ONE BIG QUESTION: How could law enforcement conclude that the fuzzy picture of the guy on the bridge was no longer a "witness" they wanted to talk to, but instead had become a "suspect". Is that just careful wording???? Or is there something they could have found (like his blue jacket) at the crime scene to make them switch to suspect? I'm still hung up on that. Help me think thru this!!!

They have access to way more video/audio.

 

[aquamarine]

This whole case has taught me that so many people have just utterly creepy Facebook profiles.

 

[Bently]

Not sure what "verified insider means" ........<respectfully snipped>.

From link...http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?167277-Verification-Process-for-Professional-or-Insider-Posters

Locals who are describing the area or are members of the gyms and that sort of thing do not need to be verified.

We only verify people who know the players or have been named in the media, etc. This does not include people who may befriend a player on internet social media and then wish to post about it.

HTH

 

[IndependentFeed]

I'm still hung up on if the BG passed them while they were on the bridge... and even if he doubled back, scared them and made them high step their way back across the bridge.. how he could manage to do that and get them into the woods on the north of the bridge, how he could do that without him risking someone seeing him.

I just wonder if the girls still had almost 2 hours to kill, if they didn't go exploring in the woods and came upon someone. Could it be that there was a 2nd person back in the woods that they stumbled on something that was being hidden and BG came up from behind and stopped them from leaving.

We need to know if their clothes were wet or not. If the bridge guy confronted them on the south side of the bridge, it seems like going through the creek is the only way to get there without risking being seen. Otherwise I think they it's likely they were exploring the woods on the other side and were followed or stalked. It's just too risky to march them across that bridge. It's not *that* remote of an area.

I don't see any sense in having them go through the creek either though, what is so special about that specific location? Theres plenty of wooded areas nearby. Judging from the topography map it's probably the most isolated area but unless you know the area really well or are looking at one of those maps you're not going to know that. Leading them there doesn't seem to have any real benefit compared to easier areas to access from either side of the creek. Why there?

 

[travelbug]

There has been a capture and booking of the suspect in an Ohio juvenile rape case (8 yr. old). What I found satisfying, aside from the arrest, is that LE reported he was located because an associate of his provided a tip. Perhaps the $100k reward in our case will also help get a lot of other creeps from that area in custody. jmho

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

ONE BIG QUESTION: How could law enforcement conclude that the fuzzy picture of the guy on the bridge was no longer a "witness" they wanted to talk to, but instead had become a "suspect". Is that just careful wording???? Or is there something they could have found (like his blue jacket) at the crime scene to make them switch to suspect? I'm still hung up on that. Help me think thru this!!!

There could be more video footage that leads them to believe he is the perpetrator.

 

[LadyL]

I may have missed it, but I have relatives that works at the Chrysler plant in Kokomo and a man was walked out in handcuffs for DNA and questioning. He hasn't been arrested yet, so I won't give his name. However he has a 1989 attempted rape conviction of an 11 year old by knife point.

Holy !@#$!

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[SilentRogue]

That statute applies to DNA.

http://www.in.gov/idoc/3285.htm

Individuals not on parole or probation as of 1 July, 2007 are not maintained in the Indiana Sex and Violent Offender Registry.

 

[labam99]

ONE BIG QUESTION: How could law enforcement conclude that the fuzzy picture of the guy on the bridge was no longer a "witness" they wanted to talk to, but instead had become a "suspect". Is that just careful wording???? Or is there something they could have found (like his blue jacket) at the crime scene to make them switch to suspect? I'm still hung up on that. Help me think thru this!!!

Just the fact that he hasn't come forward to try to clear his name makes him a suspect imo, but we know there is audio of the entire crime, so LE are 100% sure now.

 

[Confusion]

I don't think his clothing was inappropriate for the weather. It ranged from 35 to 42 degrees that day according to a historical weather website. It was unseasonably warm for this time of year but having 2 layers on (a hoodie & light jacket) would make perfect sense in my opinion. If he was out there for a couple of hours it might have been a bit colder but didn't get warm enough to feel the need to take of a 2nd layer. The hoody being up is kind of unusual for 42 degree weather but its not like it was hot outside. It was still pretty cool, just 10 degrees above freezing.

You're probably right. I'm in Minnesota and 42 degrees is warm enough in February that many people don't wear coats/jackets at all, and I know very few who would wear a shirt, hoodie and jacket with or without a hat while out walking. Maybe while sitting around fishing, hunting, watching sports or something like that, but not while being physically active. Maybe I just know a lot of weird people...:blushing:

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

Just the fact that he hasn't come forward to try to clear his name makes him a suspect imo, but we know there is audio of the entire crime, so LE are 100% sure now.

We don't know there is audio of the entire crime (unless you can provide a link.) We only know there is a great deal more not being released to the public.

 

[GangaMa]

I think some of us believe that LE has DNA recovered from the crime scene, but that they can't match it to anyone in CODIS. So, they are looking at sex offenders who do not have DNA in CODIS. Someone who was convicted of a sex offense in the late 1980s would not have been required to give a DNA sample at the time of his conviction.

We are theorizing that LE is now trying to obtain samples from sex offenders who did not previously have DNA collected.

I hope that makes sense.

Even if they have no match in CODIS, or wherever else they're looking, there are a number of things from the perp's DNA that can help LE narrow down the search. Most people know that your eye color, hair type, skin color, etc. can be gotten from DNA. But there are DNA chips available to LE that will enable them to find things like : the BRCA genetic marker for breast cancer, other genetic markers for ovarian cancer, Alzheimers, and other probable ancestor characteristics. So, for instance, if the perp has the BRCA gene, it is likely that he inherited it from one of his parents and more likely that someone in his family tree has had that type of breast cancer. LE could then search for all examples of it (the cancer) within a certain age range and locale. It's never a given, maybe all the women escaped it or died before it struck, but if you combine ALL of the things that they can deduce from the DNA, it would, I think, be a big help in the search for the perp.
DNA is not something that WS can help with, but it's something to keep in mind.
None of the above is related to anyone specific.
And MOO.

 

[Jax49]

We need to know if their clothes were wet or not. If the bridge guy confronted them on the south side of the bridge, it seems like going through the creek is the only way to get there without risking being seen. Otherwise I think they it's likely they were exploring the woods on the other side and were followed or stalked. It's just too risky to march them across that bridge. It's not *that* remote of an area.

I don't see any sense in having them go through the creek either though, what is so special about that specific location? Theres plenty of wooded areas nearby. Judging from the topography map it's probably the most isolated area but unless you know the area really well or are looking at one of those maps you're not going to know that. Leading them there doesn't seem to have any real benefit compared to easier areas to access from either side of the creek. Why there?

I wonder if the cemetery meant something to the perp?

I originally thought they came off the southeast end but it really doesn't make that much sense unless the girls crossed the creek on their own, fleeting the perp, possibly.

I'm convinced by the great videos by GH that they were on the SE end and the perp was moving toward them from the north west.

From LE's comments I'm lead to believe at that point (with perp far away) that danger was already apparent to the victims.

 

[labam99]

We don't know there is audio of the entire crime (unless you can provide a link.) We only know there is a great deal more not being released to the public.

Yes I was quoting that from a story by Inside Edition. "A source familiar with the investigation described the full cell phone recording as "the stuff of nightmares.""

http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/21840-citizen-sleuths-spring-into-action-in-indiana-murder-mystery-as-reward-reaches-50g

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

Yes I was quoting that from a story by Inside Edition. "A source familiar with the investigation described the full cell phone recording as "the stuff of nightmares.""

http://www.insideedition.com/headlines/21840-citizen-sleuths-spring-into-action-in-indiana-murder-mystery-as-reward-reaches-50g

That doesn't state the ENTIRE CRIME was recordes.

 

[Elley Mae]

This whole case has taught me that so many people have just utterly creepy Facebook profiles.

Not just creepy but folks i know that have fb are nothing like what they post. Fake front. False image of themselves compaired to how they are in life. Jmo

 

[bessie]

http://local.nixle.com/alert/5861959/

Indiana State Police-Peru District 16-Peru, IN
Tuesday February 28th, 2017 :: 03:28 p.m. EST

"There has been no arrest for the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams
There has been no arrest for the murders of Liberty German, 14 and Abigail Williams, 13. As the case proceeds investigators will talk to potential witnesses and suspects, and anyone they believe might have evidentiary information about the case. If the public observes officers working on this case, they are asked not to jump to conclusions, nor identify a person as a suspect without facts to back up the claims. It is not fair to that person. If the public has information about a suspect (s), in the double homicide of Liberty German and Abagail Williams, they should call the Delphi Murder Tip Line toll free at 844-459-5786"

Worth a repeat.