IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #17

[terpstra1]

JMO…. There has not be anything that I have read that has tied the case to the cemetery, in fact from the way it looks on the map the cemetery is a considerable distance from where the girls were found. It may be possible the perp didn’t even know it was there. From what I see when I look at the map, it appears he made them walk to a location where he felt there was enough cover and seclusion and did what ever it is he did. He may then have gone back the way he came hopped back on the trail and walked right out like nothing ever happened. IMO it would be a lot more suspicious if he just popped out by the cemetery as opposed to just strolling back down the trail like apparently a lot of people in that area do. And for the landowner again from the map it looks like even if he had been home in his back yard he wouldn’t have heard much, he owns I believe 40 acres around there. They were found on property he owns, not in his backyard, I think that is some of the confusion. JMO J Anyone who has studied the maps and knows more please correct me if this is off.

Imo the problem I have with this senerio is he then would have had to park his car where it would have been seen by others. Also I have a problem with him going back into the park where someone would see him and possibly describe him.

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[Jax49]

Yes, that is part of my confusion when it comes to the maps. On Theindychannel.com and another map Ive seen they have where the girls were found marked towards the east, more behind the properties that are next to cemetery. On here it is labeled directly behind cemetery. My guess is that if it were behind the properties, then they would be using the cemetery as more of an access point, but I tend to go with what users here have posted because they are better than me about finding the proper info.

Could you link the one at IndyChannel. I'd love to see it and I'm totally failing to find it. Thanks!

 

[0101ABA]

Dear Websleuths Members,

Please DO NOT bring in family members of the victim's and suggest they might have had something to do with the crime. As of right now, there is ZERO evidence to suggest this is the case.

People, please think about what Abby and Liberty's loved ones are going through right now.

They lost their two angels to murder and now they read on the Internet people are ripping their lives apart.

Same thing with any random person you happen to bring up. These people do not deserve to have their lives spread out and accusations made against them based on a theory with nothing to back it up.

I know it's frustrating when you go on other sites and they are talking about EVERYTHING but we just do not work that way on Websleuths.

You are anonymous behind your computer screen. Doesn't hurt you if you post something that's not true about a grieving family member. You step away from your computer and all is well. Meanwhile, your words are like burning hot knives in people's hearts.

Please take a moment to read our ruleshttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=showrules

If you have any questions please email websleuthscomments@gmail.com or send a private message.

Ask yourself the following; Would you stand face to face with the person you are accusing, tell them your theory and tell them your real name?

Even with our tight and well thought out rules Websleuths is able to do amazing sleuthing.

Thank you for caring about Abby and Liberty.

Tricia Griffith
Owner/Websleuths.com

:bump: Not saying anyone has less-than-good intentions, but bringing this forward.

 

[BFTnative]

Could you link the one at IndyChannel. I'd love to see it and I'm totally failing to find it. Thanks!

http://http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/map-where-the-two-bodies-were-found-near-delphi-indiana

 

[Eileen730]

JMO but it goes to show how easily the could have controlled the situation with little to know force or even a weapon. The implied threat to IMO Abby would have made Libby completely under his control, I do not believe from anything we have seen or read about her that she would have left Abby in a situation like that. I really believe when this case comes to the public we will see just how big of a hero Libby really was, IMO she gave her life to try and save / help Abby whom I believe was the target.... JMO

Jmo
I don't think either girl was able to flee the situation.
Was anyone even around to hear them scream?

 

[Gunther Toody]

Imo the problem I have with this senerio is he then would have had to park his car where it would have been seen by others. Also I have a problem with him going back into the park where someone would see him and possibly describe him.

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I was thinking this as well. Initially, I thought he may have parked in the cemetery and one of my earliest questions was..is the bridge visible from the cemetery...now, as you say his vehicle would have drawn attention and could easily be spotted from the road. That cemetery is small and does not appear to get much traffic so that would add to drawing attention if he parked there. Before the maps were measured out showing how small the area really is, it looked huge as in miles...but its not.
He could have parked anywhere and walked in.

 

[#1nana]

Imo the problem I have with this senerio is he then would have had to park his car where it would have been seen by others. Also I have a problem with him going back into the park where someone would see him and possibly describe him.

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(sorry I quoted the wrong person) The cemetery is closer than what you think. The aerial maps are great but they aren't good to tell distance. In these photos here, you can see the break in the tree line where the river is. This was taken at the back of the cemetery. Other is other parking option right on the road at the trail head.

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[luckyme]

Imo the problem I have with this senerio is he then would have had to park his car where it would have been seen by others. Also I have a problem with him going back into the park where someone would see him and possibly describe him.

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Wasnt there a lady and a couple on the trail around 3:00 and they didnt see anything? moo

 

[heaterann]

Imo the problem I have with this senerio is he then would have had to park his car where it would have been seen by others. Also I have a problem with him going back into the park where someone would see him and possibly describe him.

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IMO he didn’t do anything to not be seen in the park. He walked the trail in broad daylight and was even photographed / video taped. IMO this perp is confident enough that LE would have a very hard time tracking him even with a pic or playing devil’s advocate and suppose he didn’t know the pic was taken then he knew from a police sketch or description it would be very difficult. IMO he is a loner has been for a long enough time that people who did know him would have a hard time recognizing him. He also does not most likely have DNA on file. IF the LE have DNA which has not been confirmed but from what they are doing recently it appears a strong likelihood then they would have named the suspect. To pull off something like this takes a certain amount of confidence. He is such a Midwestern cliché in that picture that most anyone seeing him on that trail pre or post murder probably wouldn’t have paid him much mind especially if he kept his head down and carried on his way…. JMO

 

[skibaboo]

Yes, that is part of my confusion when it comes to the maps. On Theindychannel.com and another map Ive seen they have where the girls were found marked towards the east, more behind the properties that are next to cemetery. On here it is labeled directly behind cemetery. My guess is that if it were behind the properties, then they would be using the cemetery as more of an access point, but I tend to go with what users here have posted because they are better than me about finding the proper info.

This indychannel map?

I believe it was the first one to have a marker for where they were found, further north east than where I believe they were located. Personally I like to do my own 'investigating' using photos posted in MSM of a location or crime scene. Where I put the marker is where I believe they were found, not 100% accurate because nobody but LE and the perp and other who have been to the exact spot truly knows, but within a reasonable distance. Video and photos posted from reporters at the crime scene show the SE end of Monon bridge across the creek, you would simply not get that view from where the Indychannel have the marker. Also search crews were in the creek along the same portion of the creek that correlates with the marker I have on the map, and where others have agreed.

 

[liltexans]

Slocum said he hopes the tour put family members' minds at ease to see so many resources dedicated to the case.

"I hope that they feel a sense that this is important to us," he said."That they're important to us."

Slocum said he has received numerous media requests to speak to family members, and they could host a press conference in the near future once they're ready to speak publicly.

"I know this is a public crime, but they are their family members … and this is a very private thing to them," he said.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...eens-families-tour-investigation-hq/98579168/

 

[Bently]

There is a cell tower owner by US Cellular 1/2 mile from the bridge, Across the road basically from RL's property.

Do you have a link for such tower as Skibaboo, our WS case mapmaker extraordinaire, doesn't have that one, that I see, on her map which includes cell towers. :blowkiss: skibs. Perhaps I'm not viewing skib's map correctly?



https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=195lcn7G7VGC-TkdJirxwNf6o9xM&ll=40.5909303565825%2C-86.64349438837587&z=14

 

[bethieb]

Loretta Faye Norvell is missing from Trenton, OHIO not Trenton, IN

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?329239-OH-Loretta-Faye-Norvell-17-Trenton-14-January-2017

Yes it's local to me and her family posts on local pages and things. It's heartbreaking!

 

[Rachel1]

I'm having trouble quoting but this is in response to post 244.
Do you actually believe that is feasible? Do u think police or the FBI would give WS an update just because we want to sleuth this case? I understand they have 10000+tips to sort through (I'm sure most are people wanting to explain their personal theories on this case from two still photos and a three word recording that don't really understand that LE knows more then the public) but I don't think LE would give us a presser just because we want to sleuth.

 

[Dushi]

Wasnt there a lady and a couple on the trail around 3:00 and they didnt see anything? moo

A woman who was at the bridge commented on a Facebook post by a family member of one of the girls, saying she had been at the bridge shortly after the girls posted the photo. She said she didn’t notice anything out of the ordinary.

“I even walked all the way across the bridge and back. I only (saw) a guy when I first got there and another couple once I got on the bridge,” Cheyenne Mekisha Engles wrote. “I didn’t see the girls at all. I also didn’t take the trail that leads to the right. Only took the trail that lead to the bridge.”

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

 

[Eileen730]

Wasnt there a lady and a couple on the trail around 3:00 and they didnt see anything? moo

I'd think they would have heard a scream if there was one!

 

[razzledazzle]

I was thinking this as well. Initially, I thought he may have parked in the cemetery and one of my earliest questions was..is the bridge visible from the cemetery...now, as you say his vehicle would have drawn attention and could easily be spotted from the road. That cemetery is small and does not appear to get much traffic so that would add to drawing attention if he parked there. Before the maps were measured out showing how small the area really is, it looked huge as in miles...but its not.
He could have parked anywhere and walked in.

BBM- This!

 

[terpstra1]

Wasnt there a lady and a couple on the trail around 3:00 and they didnt see anything? moo

That's one of the reasons I think he didn't go back through the park.

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[skibaboo]

Do you have a link for such tower as Skibaboo, our WS case mapmaker extraordinaire, doesn't have that one, that I see, on her map which includes cell towers. :blowkiss: skibs. Perhaps I'm not viewing skib's map correctly?

View attachment 111528

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=195lcn7G7VGC-TkdJirxwNf6o9xM&ll=40.5909303565825%2C-86.64349438837587&z=14

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=delphi&state_abr=in

It's here I do see it, but it's not marked or labelled on the site I use, I figured it was not in use anymore?

 

[heaterann]

I'm having trouble quoting but this is in response to post 244.
Do you actually believe that is feasible? Do u think police or the FBI would give WS an update just because we want to sleuth this case? I understand they have 10000+tips to sort through (I'm sure most are people wanting to explain their personal theories on this case from two still photos and a three word recording that don't really understand that LE knows more then the public) but I don't think LE would give us a presser just because we want to sleuth.

I don't believe the FBI would really do that, nor would I be happy if they did I would be rather concerned for the integrity of the case. It was a light hearted joke. With so many of us out here willing and ready to help it was kind of a tongue and cheek way of saying how seriously awesome some of the sleuths on this thread are and that in a heart beat we would be willing to help in any way possible.