IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #18

[ninij9]

This is interesting. North of this, but something that would fit a makeup.

https://www.google.com/amp/fox59.co...nr-investigates-deer-found-burning-alive/amp/

I couldn't click on video.[emoji17]
I sometimes hate people very much.

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[SolwayFirth]

We don't know when they were left there. Or how they got to the dump site for that matter. We just dont know and LE hasn't said, all else is speculation

It's all speculation on my part, but has anyone considered that maybe this was a planned kidnapping, and, things DID NOT work out as planned? Maybe he was expecting no resistance? Maybe they were killed as a result of his panic over having lost control? JMO of course...

 

[Burnt Toast]

I was thinking of that yesterday when the reward reached $200,000. Then I thought of it from another perspective the more the reward grows the more the girls stay in MSM and the chance grows for more eyes to see it.

I know it's hard to believe being just over two weeks into this some might not be aware about Abby and Libby's story. I'm just going to through this out there as someone from the Midwest. I live in Wisconsin I have neighbors on both sides of me who are in their mid 50s who never watch the news. They do not get a news paper and they don't believe in social media. I also know some who only watch local news and there has been nothing of this on my local news in central WI. Maybe an idea for any of us who do not live in the local area and have not seen it on our local news we could get in contact with them and ask them to share the story with their viewers/followers. The worst that could happen from that is we won't get a response or they won't follow through with helping to spread the word. At this point it's worth trying to help however we can.

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i live in wisconsin as well. Not one of the 12 people I work with has ever heard of these murders when I brought it up the other day.

 

[Safeguard]

Yeah, I've read that. There's a ton of research on that angle. In doing research I've found 2-3 trucking companies close by (1 mi.), but it's a very normal thing as they're typically owned out of homes. Also, look on the interstate. My grandpa was a truck driver, seemed very normal. But, I've got an uncle who is and he's not, lol. So there's that.

Bbm
Does your abnormal uncle own a blue jacket, jeans and a small dog that may or may not resemble a tape measure?

 

[SheRuns]

This is a really interesting (old) article from Psychology Today regarding how predators select their victims. More importantly, it gives advice on keeping yourself safe (safer).

I think I will share this one with my daughter.....

https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200901/marked-mayhem

Great article. Only one part made me pause. I guess saying you should comply is specific to robbery, but I don't know how I feel about this advice:

"How do you survive unharmed if you find yourself targeted? Cooperate. "They're not going to hurt you unless they need to," says New Orleans Police Department psychologist James Arey. Convicted armed robber Darryl Falls, who admits to committing more than 100 robberies, agrees. "The quicker you comply and give them your goods," he says, "the quicker they're out of your face."

 

[DatelineFan]

Why are people thinking he needed to overpower? All he had to do was grab one and make threats to hurt her if the other moved. In the moment it's very easy to freeze up and and obey when you're afraid. I'm sure it's even more likely if your best friend is being threatened in front of you.

 

[ninij9]

I wonder if one reason so many billboards were put into play is as out reach to vagrant/homeless populations. Those groups might have far more limited access to TV, radio and paper news. Sigh. Mostly I'm trying to think of any explanation for the massive # of BB that does not lead back to the crimes being so extra awful.

Good perspective. I had not thought of this. Likewise truckers who spend so much time out of the loop. One of them may have given the turd a ride.

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[DatelineFan]

It doesn't matter who's athletic. We're talking about a grown man and two young girls.

 

[Etilema]

Completely agree! Some people don't seem to understand the difference between a tip and a theory. LE can come up with plenty of their own theories (using a lot more resources based on a lot more information than the public has available). The only time a member of the public can help solve this case is if they have information that LE does NOT have and/or is not publicly available. You'd think this would be common sense, but evidently it's not.

Examples of things that are NOT "tips":
- "You should look into RSOs"
- "I think the perp might be hiding a gun. I can totally see the outline.
- "Check out the map of the crime scene and sketch of the suspect I made."
- "You should look into men who had knee replacements because my uncle had one and walks like that."

Examples of useful TIPS:
- "My co-worker looks a bit like the suspect, and I just found two pairs of girls panties in his desk drawer."
(If the victims were found fully clothed LE will quickly move on, but if they were found nude with their underwear missing they'd follow up on this.)

- "I found a bloody knife in my neighbor's garage. He claims he cut up a deer with it, but the story he gave me didn't add up."
(If the victims were strangled LE would probably dismiss the tip, but if they were stabbed they might follow up on it).

- "My husband has been acting strange since that day, and when I asked where his blue jacket and brown hoodie were he claimed he lost them, but he doesn't remember when or where."
(They would likely follow up on this due to someone reporting a close family member).

I realize that at the press conference they encouraged the public to call with any tips no matter how insignificant they seemed. However, I'm pretty sure they did NOT mean to call in with wild (or even plausible) theories. Hopefully within those 10,000 plus calls and emails they received there's a few that actually qualify as TIPS, and hopefully one will actually pan out. I'm just afraid that it's going to take much longer to get to that viable tip because they have to sort through 9,999 pieces of nonsense to get to it.

Great differentiation. And your examples of tips show why LE keeps a lot of info "close to the vest"--it helps in determining which tips to investigate further.


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[Swayze]

Completely agree! Some people don't seem to understand the difference between a tip and a theory. LE can come up with plenty of their own theories (using a lot more resources based on a lot more information than the public has available). The only time a member of the public can help solve this case is if they have information that LE does NOT have and/or is not publicly available. You'd think this would be common sense, but evidently it's not.

Examples of things that are NOT "tips":
- "You should look into RSOs"
- "I think the perp might be hiding a gun. I can totally see the outline.
- "Check out the map of the crime scene and sketch of the suspect I made."
- "You should look into men who had knee replacements because my uncle had one and walks like that."

Examples of useful TIPS:
- "My co-worker looks a bit like the suspect, and I just found two pairs of girls panties in his desk drawer."
(If the victims were found fully clothed LE will quickly move on, but if they were found nude with their underwear missing they'd follow up on this.)

- "I found a bloody knife in my neighbor's garage. He claims he cut up a deer with it, but the story he gave me didn't add up."
(If the victims were strangled LE would probably dismiss the tip, but if they were stabbed they might follow up on it).

- "My husband has been acting strange since that day, and when I asked where his blue jacket and brown hoodie were he claimed he lost them, but he doesn't remember when or where."
(They would likely follow up on this due to someone reporting a close family member).

I realize that at the press conference they encouraged the public to call with any tips no matter how insignificant they seemed. However, I'm pretty sure they did NOT mean to call in with wild (or even plausible) theories. Hopefully within those 10,000 plus calls and emails they received there's a few that actually qualify as TIPS, and hopefully one will actually pan out. I'm just afraid that it's going to take much longer to get to that viable tip because they have to sort through 9,999 pieces of nonsense to get to it.

I now realize that I called in a "theory" and not really a tip (re: Geocaching). Your post helped me realize this, but even as I was telling my "tip" to them I kinda realized it a long shot, but just felt compelled to "help" in some way. Oh well :/

 

[ninij9]

It's a sad statement that it would take money to turn somebody in that killed two kids. Today's world.

What if it's a spouse that's totally afraid of her man and doesn't even have the financial means to survive without him?
If she turns him in she and her children are destitute. What if he's conditioned her to feel worthless?

This reward would give a woman like that two hundred and eleven thousand reasons to be able to finally make the break....

Could happen. Jmo.

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[#1nana]

Another good video about the trail and the bridge starting from in town. At 35:51 you can see the road underneath on the SW side and how steep some of those slopes are to the river


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEKbqb_szEU&feature=youtu.be

 

[Jax49]

Completely agree! Some people don't seem to understand the difference between a tip and a theory. LE can come up with plenty of their own theories (using a lot more resources based on a lot more information than the public has available). The only time a member of the public can help solve this case is if they have information that LE does NOT have and/or is not publicly available. You'd think this would be common sense, but evidently it's not.

Examples of things that are NOT "tips":
- "You should look into RSOs"
- "I think the perp might be hiding a gun. I can totally see the outline.
- "Check out the map of the crime scene and sketch of the suspect I made."
- "You should look into men who had knee replacements because my uncle had one and walks like that."

Examples of useful TIPS:
- "My co-worker looks a bit like the suspect, and I just found two pairs of girls panties in his desk drawer."
(If the victims were found fully clothed LE will quickly move on, but if they were found nude with their underwear missing they'd follow up on this.)

- "I found a bloody knife in my neighbor's garage. He claims he cut up a deer with it, but the story he gave me didn't add up."
(If the victims were strangled LE would probably dismiss the tip, but if they were stabbed they might follow up on it).

- "My husband has been acting strange since that day, and when I asked where his blue jacket and brown hoodie were he claimed he lost them, but he doesn't remember when or where."
(They would likely follow up on this due to someone reporting a close family member).

I realize that at the press conference they encouraged the public to call with any tips no matter how insignificant they seemed. However, I'm pretty sure they did NOT mean to call in with wild (or even plausible) theories. Hopefully within those 10,000 plus calls and emails they received there's a few that actually qualify as TIPS, and hopefully one will actually pan out. I'm just afraid that it's going to take much longer to get to that viable tip because they have to sort through 9,999 pieces of nonsense to get to it.

A thousand thanks!

 

[heaterann]

I am at a loss for why the discussion of who died first or who he would have grabbed first causes so many people to get upset??? Its relevant to the case its relevant to trying to catch this perp. We have a very bad pic, trying to figure out a bit about his personality which we can gather clues about him from the crime. Yes Libby was taller, more athletic and weighed more than Abby that is a fact. If we are looking at who he could physically control easier than Abby would be the logical choice. I get this is an emotionally charged crime we all feel it but can we try to put some of that aside to have constructive conversations or is this just going to be about our feelings and trying to defend where defending is not necessary?

 

[skibaboo]

"DELPHI, Ind. -- Two Indiana contractors who have gone viral as "The Singing Contractors" recorded an emotional tribute to the Delphi teens who were killed just over two weeks ago.

Aaron Gray and Josh Arnett hope their three-part message will help lead police to the girls' killer."

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...rd-emotional-tribute-to-delphi-murder-victims

View attachment 111695

That was absolutely lovely but I tell you what was not, the indy channel website auto playing the loop of 'Down the hill' at the same time as the guys singing, scared the absolute pap out of me!!!

 

[Etilema]

I am at a loss for why the discussion of who died first or who he would have grabbed first causes so many people to get upset??? Its relevant to the case its relevant to trying to catch this perp. We have a very bad pic, trying to figure out a bit about his personality which we can gather clues about him from the crime. Yes Libby was taller, more athletic and weighed more than Abby that is a fact. If we are looking at who he could physically control easier than Abby would be the logical choice. I get this is an emotionally charged crime we all feel it but can we try to put some of that aside to have constructive conversations or is this just going to be about our feelings and trying to defend where defending is not necessary?

(Just wanted to mention that the information we have say the girls were both 5'4".)


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[Elley Mae]

I too felt that LE should have had a helicopter in the night the girls went missing, they were dropped and and did not appear at the time they should have to be picked up. JMO that was a red flag. Iirc abby lived with her father, they had recently returned to that area. Jmo

Law enforcement just like emergency medical services have to follow protocols. Every time a child or children are reported missing or in the case if we think back all that had happened at that point was they just didn’t show up on time for their pick up. Was it reasonable that they were taking their time, “just being teenagers” point being if the situation did not fit all the criteria for the “Missing / Abducted Child Protocol” then the LE acted in a reasonable and responsible manner. Do I agree with the protocol no, I wish that every time a child was not exactly where they were suppose to be we could send the troops out to search for that stat but that’s just not realistic and many many times missing kids are found unharmed, in trouble from their parents no doubt but they haven’t been met with foul play, that’s why the protocols are in place. I made a comment many threads back that I had wondered if these girls had come from different families ie, grandparents are raising Libby and Abby is from a single mother household would they have taken the fact that these girls did not return on time more seriously. On one hand they have protocols on the other hand LE do not turn their backs when they believe children are in danger. For whatever reason the LE just couldn’t for see the situation and who really could have?

 

[NotSoGrumpy]

I really wonder what the girls were doing before they got to that park. Were they at a store, and someone overhead they were being dropped off at the trail? Just seems so convenient that he/them just happened to be there when the girls were. Doesn't seem like you can really see much from any of the streets either.

This was my line of thinking, many threads ago.

Someone said they believed they likely searched the property by calling names, but not a thorough physical search.

They were looking for alive lost girls, not bodies.

 

[fred&edna]

I broke my chair..

-Nin

I hope the chair just threw a rod and you didn't land in the floor!

I just looked at my original post and realized I temporarily lost the ability to spell. :shame:

Okay, back to the Liberty & Abby... please let the BPOS be arrested SOOOOOON!

 

[monkeypants]

I am at a loss for why the discussion of who died first or who he would have grabbed first causes so many people to get upset??? Its relevant to the case its relevant to trying to catch this perp. We have a very bad pic, trying to figure out a bit about his personality which we can gather clues about him from the crime. Yes Libby was taller, more athletic and weighed more than Abby that is a fact. If we are looking at who he could physically control easier than Abby would be the logical choice. I get this is an emotionally charged crime we all feel it but can we try to put some of that aside to have constructive conversations or is this just going to be about our feelings and trying to defend where defending is not necessary?

Actually, it doesn't matter. It doesn't solve the crime, nor assist in the least in accomplishing it. It's story telling fantasizing. It has no constructive benefit.