IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #18

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Long time hunter and firearm enthusiast here. From the pictures I have seen from the surrounding area, even a 22 cal would echo very well and be hear from at least a mile away. Not many bad guys use such a small caliber. Next up would be a 38. That would be heard from a few miles away.

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Agreed. Guns are much louder than non shooters can imagine. Can be heard for miles. Killers would not want to draw that much attention. I have been at indoor ranges where high power pistols shook my entire body. not what killer wants. Fake pistol may be as useful for compliance as real one.
 
This (what I want to comment on) was brought up in Thread #16. I would try to quote the comments, but I have no idea how to do that between threads, and my computer is having issues just with typing this. :)

Regarding Child Abuse: While I understand that there is *some level* of correlation between individuals who commit crimes and individuals who have been abused as children, this can easily be taken out of context. I am active in organizations that are seeking to de-stigmatize child abuse (especially childhood sexual abuse) and there is often a great sense of shame or concerns about being treated differently by the victims. I am not ashamed to share that I am a survivor of childhood abuse, including sexual and emotional, at the hands of my father. It is interesting to note that my father was a high level police officer (working in forensics and homicide throughout my childhood). My mother caught him and divorced him, but because of his standing in the small community where we lived (he worked in a large city about an hour away) he was never held accountable and was allowed by the courts to continue to have visitation. I have personally been on the receiving end of stereotypes of abuse survivors and at vulnerable times it made life more difficult than was necessary. About 1 in 7 girls in the United States are sexually abused before age 18 and 1 in 25 boys before the age of 18 (I do not have statistics about all forms of abuse that I can get to right now - these are from Darkness to Light - d2l.org), so the odds are great that you interact with abuse survivors daily without ever knowing their background or suspecting anything.
I apologize if this is off topic, but as it is something personal to me I felt the need to comment. :)

*Also just adding in another personal comment - individuals with true mental illness are significantly more likely to be the victims of crimes (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-24420430) than to commit crimes. And the crimes that they do commit are rarely random/occurring in public (about 2% according to https://news.ncsu.edu/2014/02/wms-desmarais-violence2014/).

For the future, for anyone if a post you want to reference is in a past thread, go to the post, click on the post # in the upper right border and copy the url.

HTH
 
could he use a gun to coerce them but used a knife? moo Im thinking the noise of a gun might draw attention. moo

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He could have used a firearm to control them, and used their friendship against them. One not wanting to break away for fear of the other being hurt or killed if she ran. Then he could have used another method to kill them. If he did use a firearm, folks familiar w/hearing firearms around there, would likely not pay attention to it, but would think of hearing shots afterwards, and report what they'd heard. Folks unfamiliar w/the sounds of firearms being shot, may not even recognize what they'd heard. They may have even thought a car backfired, or something similar.
 
Agreed.

I've read up on quite a few murders involving guns in my time. Not on WS, but in the MSM and clinical studies.

Many murders are committed with .22 and .25 caliber handguns. Why? Small and easy to conceal, plus you can put a lot more rounds in the clip.

My .40 holds either 10 or 13 rounds, plus one in the hole. Someone in the business of being mere feet from their victims won't use a large caliber weapon, they'll use a smaller caliber so that they have more rounds available, plus the shots may be non-lethal. Drug dealers and others used to street crime have been using small caliber handguns for a long time.

Going the other way, a small caliber round will not go through soft tissue as easily. Also, autopsies have revealed that small caliber rounds which go through the skull tend to bounce around inside the cranium, doing more damage than a larger round might.

Abraham Lincoln was shot behind the ear with a small caliber, one-shot Derringer. It took hours for him to die. Some people use small .22 and .25 caliber weapons so that is they ever get into a situation where they feel compelled to use it, they use "execution style" shots to the back of the cranium, or the brain stem.

What the perp used is anyone's guess. We've thrown out about every possibility on here, to include using multiple weapons from the point of contact to death. Scary stuff.
Good points. The caliber is a long discussed topic. The point I was trying to make was the decibels of the report. 22s has that high pitched crack. That tends the echo a bit. It uses a quicker burning powder than day a 45 which had a more of a lower longer decibel output. The echo on a 45 would be not as pronounced, but the decibel would be greater and travel further.

Given all of that, IMO, a firearm was not used. Anyone hearing fire that night, I would think, would be reported. My bet is a blade or asphyxiation. My heart breaks at that thought though.

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Here are my pics with a couple of digital adjustments. I changed the saturation and contrast to show there is no brown coloration on his right pelvis, leading me to believe it's a fanny pack. Increasing the saturation made the blues bluer and the browns browner. The three-dimensional characteristic is really obvious if you view it from a distance. IMO.

View attachment 111613 View attachment 111614

Now that I see these pics with color saturation and IndependenFeeds, I'm thinking he's putting is hand into his hoodie pocket and that's the brown fabric.
 
Earlier in another thread someone showed a photo of what Libby was wearing that day. Tie dye t-shirt and black tights with no pockets. She had nowhere to hide her phone.
Did Abby have a phone, or only Libby? If so, has Abby's phone been found?
 
If FBI and Indiana homeland think it's a serial killer, how long will they stay to help? What is the normal time frame they stop helping and it goes back to state and local police?
 
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Dear mods, don't delete this side by side. It's my own picture.

I had some clothes laying around similar to BG, as do most people in Indiana I assume. And wanted to see if we could get a better understanding of his height, weight & what all he was wearing.

I noticed a few things.

1) His neck is very far down almost as if he's clinching something under it.

2) I have no idea what he has under his chin but it's probably not a thick pair of gloves like mine. (I originally thought it was a pair of gloves as I've seen people place them there temporarily if they wont fit into pockets)

3) If he is wearing a hoodie, it seems to be far too big for his body. Maybe a 2x or 3x L when he should be wearing a L to XL. The hood coming down over his eyes like that reveals no forehead and the tails at the bottom poke out a lot. I think he's reaching into a pocket under his jacket.

4) If my scaling is proper, he's around 5'10" and likely between 175lbs and 190lbs

5) his right arm & right leg are in an awkward pose. seems like he's trying to reach into the pocket and position himself to get at whatever is in that pocket.

6) I shaved yesterday but I think the stubble could show up in a distorted image as a mustache, it seems like he has a thicker mustache & maybe a goatee but it's hard to say for sure.

EDIT: I'm 35 years old.

Again if you're a mod please don't delete this, it's my own image.

Sorry I missed this!

Nice work!
 
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Dear mods, don't delete this side by side. It's my own picture.

I had some clothes laying around similar to BG, as do most people in Indiana I assume. And wanted to see if we could get a better understanding of his height, weight & what all he was wearing.

I noticed a few things.

1) His neck is very far down almost as if he's clinching something under it.

2) I have no idea what he has under his chin but it's probably not a thick pair of gloves like mine. (I originally thought it was a pair of gloves as I've seen people place them there temporarily if they wont fit into pockets)

3) If he is wearing a hoodie, it seems to be far too big for his body. Maybe a 2x or 3x L when he should be wearing a L to XL. The hood coming down over his eyes like that reveals no forehead and the tails at the bottom poke out a lot. I think he's reaching into a pocket under his jacket.

4) If my scaling is proper, he's around 5'10" and likely between 175lbs and 190lbs

5) his right arm & right leg are in an awkward pose. seems like he's trying to reach into the pocket and position himself to get at whatever is in that pocket.

6) I shaved yesterday but I think the stubble could show up in a distorted image as a mustache, it seems like he has a thicker mustache & maybe a goatee but it's hard to say for sure.

EDIT: I'm 35 years old.

Again if you're a mod please don't delete this, it's my own image.

Great job! Very helpful. I think the hood fits sort of similar to yours but then he has hair showing that comes down to his eyes. And it's been mentioned before but I think he's stepping pretty fast to almost running, moving aggressively forward so his upper torso is bent forward a bit more and having to watch his feet so as not to trip. I think he's younger.
 
My Dad was from Missouri (near the Ozarks) and used to say warsh (wash) and maptress (mattress). Being from South Jersey we always thought that was funny.
When I lived in Mizzurah, i always liked "cackalater" for calculator. ;)

However I am from the South; the land of awesomely funny colloquialisms!
 
If FBI and Indiana homeland think it's a serial killer, how long will they stay to help? What is the normal time frame they stop helping and it goes back to state and local police?

I think they know if they leave it's going to be anarchy out there... people pointing fingers at each other and taking the law into their own hands. Everyone has a theory of who did it, sometimes based on who they don't like or who they know thats a little off who kind of looks like the guy and was once convicted of something, etc.. It could get real ugly if they even give the appearance that the case is going cold.
 
http://fox59.com/2017/03/01/despite-delphi-reward-some-may-fear-speaking-up/
[h=1]Some may fear speaking up about Delphi murders despite reward[/h]
They say "money talks," but when it comes to serious a crime, that’s not always the case. When somebody knows something about a crime, it usually comes down to one of two things that keep them clammed up.

“One of them is fear, and that’s where the anonymous part comes in, and the other is apathy, they just don’t want to get involved in the system,” said Central Indiana Crime Stoppers Director Steve Dubois, who can’t comment directly on what’s happening in Delphi because it’s not a Crime Stoppers case. Despite that, he understands how much a reward can help people to speak up.
“Rewards have a tendency to push them over that bump,” said Dubois. The Delphi murders reward is being handled by Indiana State Police.

“We all know what is normal in our surroundings, we all know what feels right,” said Dubois, “and if you get that feeling that something’s not right, that’s when you probably need to tell somebody.”
 

In your last pic. What do you suppose is the little round thing that almost resembles a alien head? Kinda looks like it's sticking out of his pocket. Obviously it's not a tiny alien... just never noticed this before.




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Bringing this over from the last thread:

post# 974

Jabarn

After studying this, I change my mind the object at his waste is a fanny pack. It does seem to me to be an object he is pulling from either his waste band or from inside his jacket or underclothes, and in the picture gives off a shape that comes across as a fanny pack in a 2-D image. I agree, figuring out these things does not get us any closer to his identity. What it may do, when we keep looking at these things, though, is keep the case going and we can't let it stop.

Me:

I was just looking into it.Strangely, one image seems to show it may be a fanny pack. The other image seems to show gloves.

I have not decided yet, take your pick.. -Nin

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I'm glad you mentioned this because I was just looking at the same thing. But, I have to put it into context of WHY I'm thinking this way. Not knowing much about the area, I went to google maps to see where Delphi is located. I was browsing thru the pictures and happened upon a picture with a man and a woman. Having heard that a couple was there at around the same time, I was blowing up the pictures and looking at the backgrounds.

In on of the pictures, I noticed what appeared to me to be a construction crew. Does anyone know if there was any construction going in the area?

The item looks to me like an old carpenters belt, like here. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Double-Pocket-Leather-Suede-Tool-Belt-Apron-Beige-New-PL22S-/122212359634

If you look at the picture very closely you can see something that is black long and thin toward the rear of the "fanny pack" and the same colored item near the rear of the perp on the right side. Could that be a hammer, screw driver or some other tool of the construction trade?

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In your last pic. What do you suppose is the little round thing that almost resembles a alien head? Kinda looks like it's sticking out of his pocket. Obviously it's not a tiny alien... just never noticed this before.




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It almost looks like a little dogs head. Especially in the normal contrast picture.

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Perhaps it was a very soft confrontation. "I am a ranger/ police officer/ railroad official and you are trespassing private property here, ladies. It is illegal to cross this bridge and also very dangerous. I am going to ask you to step off the bridge.".. "Where were you going..?".. " Okay, then get down the hill and I am going to lead you back"

That is frightening and could well be right.

As a side note, the two brothers who murdered the girl that the movie Dead Man Walking was loosely based on are thought to have used on used a similar ruse to harass couples on a lovers lane ("This is private property, We're security guards. Get out of the car- hands on the hood etc). After a few suggestive poses, they would let the couple leave. They even had a badge to flash when needed. Eventually, however, the two brothers moved from harassment to rape and murder.

I suspect that many socially challenged criminals need to both test the ruse like the brothers did to see if it is plausible and also to fine tune it if needed. Therefore, I wonder if other hikers have been approached by a "security guard / railroad employee" or someone offering to help find geo caches or pokemons?
 
If he is wearing a fanny pack he should be arrested for that alone... What kind of man wears a fanny pack???

Fanny packs are commonly worn by the seniors in my mom's hiking group. Both men and women use them to carry their keys, snacks and small items. Maybe BG is older.
 
Not to get too indecent, but I have tucked my cell under my bra strap, just inside the top of the bra cup before. Generally do this when I need my hands and have no pockets. Perhaps this is where the phone was hidden?


Sweat pants could have pockets and I cannot find a link to "tights with no pockets" as the poster up thread reported. IMO this is why links are important. Not only that I have seen females tuck their phone in their leggings. If he found it it ended up in the creek IMO
 
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