IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #18

[Burnt Toast]

I personally think they should do a dragnet DNA. It has been effective in other cases.

 

[No it's not]

Libby was wearing gray sweatpants. States that in the article the pp shared. I have several pairs of sweatpants that have pockets in them.
"Libby is described as standing 5'4" tall with a heavy build. She has blonde shoulder-length hair and blue eyes. She was last seen wearing a tie-dyed shirt with fringe at the bottom, gray sweat pants with unknown black lettering and black Nike shoes."

Thanks. Do we know, if the sweat pants had any pockets? -Nin

 

[matou]

Could it have been windy on the bridge and he had his head down? This could also explain the flattening out of this pant leg at the thigh. JMO

 

[galaxygal]

I keep looking at the 2 pictures of BG. Not sure how to explain in it. They are only a second or maybe even less, but they are a footstep apart. Yet the rail and rock and background don't seem to move at all. It made me think Libby took a step backwards for the background behind him to not move. Were the girls backing away from him? Or Libby was and that's why we see Abby come into the frame?

Hope I explained that to make sense.

I'm by no means an expert, but 1 second of video is 30-60 frames, depending on the phone/setting.

 

[myfewsense]

I've seen this before where they delay identification and wait for the coroner to release. The most recent local-ish story was Shaylyn Ammerman. It was obviously her but the delayed the ID. In Indianapolis the will follow the same process often, even if they know the ID. It could be for several reasons waiting for the family to be notified to the condition of the body to [fill in the blank].

Didn't they have an open casket wake?

 

[Angela_Beckett]

I've got the impression this *advertiser censored* was flashing, that's why he had the tail of his shirt pulled all the way down, and his pants looking all untidy and almost falling down

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Would the 38 year old be able to grow that much facial hair in 2 weeks, I wonder? It seems it would have shown in BG's image if he'd had that much that day. Also, BG's face seems quite a bit fuller (though with the poor quality of the image, it's hard to say for sure).

On a side note...how scary! These guys just look like regular guys. The one is just a kid! UGH!!

That could be his driver's license photo? Where I live, they rarely post actual mug shots, they always use driver's license/Photo ID
MOO

 

[LadyL]

without a picture I don't think we know whether they were actual sweat pants or the yoga pants that are very trendy right now ... sweats sometimes have pockets but yoga pants are more form fitting with no pockets

Thanks. Do we know, if the sweat pants had any pockets? -Nin

 

[TheOtherChristina]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rent-Scanner-Alerts-7&p=13195001#post13195001

Scanner thread link

Thanks!

I highly recommend everyone take a look. (But don't post about it here!)

 

[Elainera]

For those interested, here is a report from after the time of the initial search. Descriptions of the clothing the victims were wearing is included:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-missing-after-being-dropped-off-to-go-hiking

A post in the last thread brought up "calling cards".

I can't find a link for it, but remember a LE guy saying something about the bodies being found upstream, which we know, but also something about being found "against the flow" of the creek.

What might that mean?

The creek flows downstream, so upstream is against the flow.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Maybe he went to the park and trail on the 13th where Libby and Abby were?

Thats the Monon trail in Indianapolis, over an hours drive away.

 

[IndependentFeed]

Good job! one thing i notice the first time is that BG is using snap button not zip(probably the coat has the zip but not in using. second, notice how his right shoulder standing out?? Meaning his coat and sweater underneath are both not thick. I bet he dress only in two layers and dress loosely in case he need to undress himself.

People in that area wear multiple layers because the weather changes so often, if he dressed to go outside at say 8am that day he would be comfortable but by 2pm, (around the time this photo was taken) it might be time to take off one of the layers to avoid sweating (but wouldn't be too hot unless he's working in the sun). If you have to choose between carrying around a jacket because it warmed up for the day or being a little warmer than you'd prefer, you'll probably just keep the jacket on.

In the last 2 weeks here we've seen warm weather, flowers blooming, then some snow, then some cold rain, hail, warm rain and some snow again... sometimes within the same damn day it changes like that! So it's not easy to dress exactly the way you want to in the morning which is why layers are so important. But again, if you don't have anywhere to put the extra jacket, carrying it around is more of a pain in the *advertiser censored* than being a bit too warm usually.

Edit: His clothing seems appropriate given what I just mentioned but the hood being up is a red flag. You don't see people like him walking around in 40-45 degree weather with their hoods up all that often. Looks sketchy to me.

 

[Falling Down]

Long time hunter and firearm enthusiast here. From the pictures I have seen from the surrounding area, even a 22 cal would echo very well and be hear from at least a mile away. Not many bad guys use such a small caliber. Next up would be a 38. That would be heard from a few miles away.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Agreed.

I've read up on quite a few murders involving guns in my time. Not on WS, but in the MSM and clinical studies.

Many murders are committed with .22 and .25 caliber handguns. Why? Small and easy to conceal, plus you can put a lot more rounds in the clip.

My .40 holds either 10 or 13 rounds, plus one in the hole. Someone in the business of being mere feet from their victims won't use a large caliber weapon, they'll use a smaller caliber so that they have more rounds available, plus the shots may be non-lethal. Drug dealers and others used to street crime have been using small caliber handguns for a long time.

Going the other way, a small caliber round will not go through soft tissue as easily. Also, autopsies have revealed that small caliber rounds which go through the skull tend to bounce around inside the cranium, doing more damage than a larger round might.

Abraham Lincoln was shot behind the ear with a small caliber, one-shot Derringer. It took hours for him to die. Some people use small .22 and .25 caliber weapons so that is they ever get into a situation where they feel compelled to use it, they use "execution style" shots to the back of the cranium, or the brain stem.

What the perp used is anyone's guess. We've thrown out about every possibility on here, to include using multiple weapons from the point of contact to death. Scary stuff.

 

[coz]

Dear mods, don't delete this side by side. It's my own picture.

I had some clothes laying around similar to BG, as do most people in Indiana I assume. And wanted to see if we could get a better understanding of his height, weight & what all he was wearing.

I noticed a few things.

1) His neck is very far down almost as if he's clinching something under it.

2) I have no idea what he has under his chin but it's probably not a thick pair of gloves like mine. (I originally thought it was a pair of gloves as I've seen people place them there temporarily if they wont fit into pockets)

3) If he is wearing a hoodie, it seems to be far too big for his body. Maybe a 2x or 3x L when he should be wearing a L to XL. The hood coming down over his eyes like that reveals no forehead and the tails at the bottom poke out a lot. I think he's reaching into a pocket under his jacket.

4) If my scaling is proper, he's around 5'10" and likely between 175lbs and 190lbs

5) his right arm & right leg are in an awkward pose. seems like he's trying to reach into the pocket and position himself to get at whatever is in that pocket.

6) I shaved yesterday but I think the stubble could show up in a distorted image as a mustache, it seems like he has a thicker mustache & maybe a goatee but it's hard to say for sure.

EDIT: I'm 35 years old.

Again if you're a mod please don't delete this, it's my own image.

Can you provide information about how you ensured the scale of the 2 photos was the same? I think it would be very difficult to compare 2 images taken from different cameras, in different places under different conditions without photogrammetry.

 

[Elainera]

Or he has no neck at all. It's very hard for me to mimic unless I'm trying to hold something in place with my chin.

To me he looks like he's looking down to watch where he steps because of the gaps in the planks.

 

[Falling Down]

The creek flows downstream, so upstream is against the flow.

(this was in relation to my post re: a LE account of position or placement of the bodies)

Thanks, just want to make aure I'm not reading too much into what was said.

 

[teeandcee]

Bringing this over from the last thread:

post# 974

Jabarn

After studying this, I change my mind the object at his waste is a fanny pack. It does seem to me to be an object he is pulling from either his waste band or from inside his jacket or underclothes, and in the picture gives off a shape that comes across as a fanny pack in a 2-D image. I agree, figuring out these things does not get us any closer to his identity. What it may do, when we keep looking at these things, though, is keep the case going and we can't let it stop.

Me:

I was just looking into it.Strangely, one image seems to show it may be a fanny pack. The other image seems to show gloves.

I have not decided yet, take your pick.. -Nin

Whatever it is it's casting enough of a shadow that I don't think it's his sweatshirt. Also if you use a filter to brighten all the colors it obviously doesn't extend across the crotch area. I'll do that and post the results.

 

[Elainera]

What are we listening for? where do we post? so far it's about eta of power co

Listen for news/developments on this case.

Post in the scanner thread what you hear, the link is this:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rent-Scanner-Alerts-7&p=13195001#post13195001

We're not allowed to talk about it "up here".

 

[whiskers]

To me he looks like he's looking down to watch where he steps because of the gaps in the planks.

I see this as well, but at times I also see a sort of hunch and roll of the shoulders that come with age. MOO.

Maybe he isn't used to the bridge as we think he is and thus the hunch and really watching each step.

 

[LadyL]

good idea

Interesting. I wonder then if maybe the suspect did take the phone from Liberty, not knowing it was still recording, put it in his pocket; then later, somehow lost it during the attack.. fell out of his pocket, and didn't know.