IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #20

[Angelcat13]

So I've written to the corporate office of TA-Petrol to find out if they have a way to distribute the FBI flyer to their locations across the country.

I am looking for other chain type truck stops to contact.

This is growing cold, folks. If he's not local and there is no DNA hit, it has a good chance of not being solved.

The key is a family member, friend, coworker recognizing him.

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I've been in touch with the administrator of Truckers Missing Child Project. They were already posting and providing info to their members. Great group!!

 

[catwitch]

Good thinking and welcome! I would expect that the suspect would definitely be dirty, muddy and may possibly have blood on him. His shoes or boots would be very mucky looking. JMO

Huum....Didn't I read early on that muck boots were found nearby the creek? If so,he took off in a hurry and forgot them. IMHO I think he knew the landowner was away,and if so,must either know him,or someone the landowner told that he would be away. Was anyone coming to feed any animals on that property?
Going through old reports, on April 26,2014 the landowner called police to report a burgler at 9:49PM, in his barn...but the person fled before police arrived. I wonder if someone sneaks there on occasion,when they think the owner isn't home?

 

[Will48]

Hey everyone, new user here. Long time lurker but this case has prompted me to create an account, finally got around to doing it so I could add some input, however minor it might be.

1. Based off of everything I've read I do think that he forced them down the hill (with some kind of firearm, I find it unlikely he'd have the same sway if it was just a knife) where he proceeded to make them cross the creek
2. I can't be sure of the latter but the police would be, I don't think they ran across the creek to get away from him like the others have said
3. My reasoning for this is that the area where their bodies were found would be the perfect place off the trail for him to execute his will on them, far enough away and out of sight where people would be less likely to intervene if they did hear something and the chances of someone spotting it happening would be quite slim given the time frame.
4. I do think he was waiting near the start of the bridge a ways back maybe a bit off the trail until they passed where he proceeded to follow them
5. By the time the girls noticed they were already too far up the tracks to turn back, something about his demeanor creeped them out enough for one of the girls to start recording, this doesn't seem like normal behaviour in my opinion.

So in conclusion, I do NOT think this was a random killing but it's possible the girls were random targets, I DO think he pre-planned everything, from the placement of the bodies, to the lack of evidence, to the response by the FBI, to the calculated and determined sound of his voice. Taking that into account I also believe that he knew the area well and frequented it, he has probably killed before and might strike again based on what I've read about other cases and from how calculated this attack sounds.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Retired detective weighs in. Interesting.

[video=youtube;AVZNK_oKofc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVZNK_oKofc[/video]

 

[myfewsense]

Here is my post in the media thread about the day at the bridge:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-maps-amp-timelines&p=13175131#post13175131

On Monday, February 13, 2017 around 1:00- 1:30pm, Liberty German and Abigail Williams were dropped off near an abandoned railroad bridge known as "Monon High Bridge," east of Delphi to hike in the area. The girls were dropped off by Liberty's sister. The girls were not in school due to a scheduled day off (snow day not used), per the school calendar.

Sources are linked in the thread (but that part was from the Heavy article)

Thanks for locating this article.
The point I wanted to make before someone tried to misquote me...
LE reported the case was complicated...
1)Was big sis suppose to be hiking too?
2)Was a stalker following big sis, but he found another opportunity when she dropped little sis & friend off at trail?
3)Did cool big sis with car drive little sis & friend to meet middle school boys, and the girls were catfish? (No, I'm not placing blame. I'm giving another plausible area to explore.)

 

[mpnola]

Hey everyone, new user here. Long time lurker but this case has prompted me to create an account, finally got around to doing it so I could add some input, however minor it might be.

1. Based off of everything I've read I do think that he forced them down the hill (with some kind of firearm, I find it unlikely he'd have the same sway if it was just a knife) where he proceeded to make them cross the creek
2. I can't be sure of the latter but the police would be, I don't think they ran across the creek to get away from him like the others have said
3. My reasoning for this is that the area where their bodies were found would be the perfect place off the trail for him to execute his will on them, far enough away and out of sight where people would be less likely to intervene if they did hear something and the chances of someone spotting it happening would be quite slim given the time frame.
4. I do think he was waiting near the start of the bridge a ways back maybe a bit off the trail until they passed where he proceeded to follow them
5. By the time the girls noticed they were already too far up the tracks to turn back, something about his demeanor creeped them out enough for one of the girls to start recording, this doesn't seem like normal behaviour in my opinion.

So in conclusion, I do NOT think this was a random killing but it's possible the girls were random targets, I DO think he pre-planned everything, from the placement of the bodies, to the lack of evidence, to the response by the FBI, to the calculated and determined sound of his voice. Taking that into account I also believe that he knew the area well and frequented it, he has probably killed before and might strike again based on what I've read about other cases and from how calculated this attack sounds.

Welcome!!!! I agree with all of that. I think the spot he had pre-picked out was ideal because there was a big hill behind it and a creek in front of it. He just cut off any escape routes significantly. I think they should be asking to interview anyone who had been on those trails for the couple of weeks prior to see who they have encountered and what they saw. I don't think he has come back since. Afterall, his big plan was finished! It would be more helpful to try to get info from people who might have witnessed the plan being formulated.

Glad you joined! Keep contributing!

 

[mpnola]

Thanks for locating this article.
The point I wanted to make before someone tried to misquote me...
LE reported the case was complicated...
1)Was big sis suppose to be hiking too?
2)Was a stalker following big sis, but he found another opportunity when she dropped little sis & friend off at trail?
3)Did cool big sis with car drive little sis & friend to meet middle school boys, and the girls were catfish? (No, I'm not placing blame. I'm giving another plausible area to explore.)

The thing is that a different family member was scheduled for pickup. I don't think anything was other than it was planned to be. Otherwise, sis would have driven them home. And if they went without permission (like others have speculated), then why involve 2 different family members? These are just my opinions. But what makes most sense to me is that these 2 friends were getting out of the house and enjoying the weather for their day off from school and had plans to be dropped off and picked up within a couple of hours. Sounds so normal and believable, to me. I don't think anything extra had to be added in there.

 

[ab01]

If this guy is not a serial killer, and ceases to commit crimes, he may not be identified. I am not convinced he is a SK. The billboards, widespread media and number of agencies involved could be attributed to the fact that they have a photo and voice sample, very ununusual in a case like this. Jmo

I'm convinced if he isn't caught he will become a SK(if he isn't already), Somebody who kills two inocent young girls like this doesn't just stop on their own! IMO

 

[michiganmod]

I went to the 1st page with admin notes and see nothing stating we cannot discuss geocaching. Can you direct me to this information? Thanks.

Hi, we are not allowed to discuss geocaching in any way, shape, or form due to moderator/admin crackdown on people sleuthing unrelated persons they came across during the geocaching discussion and subsequent web searches people were doing. Just so you know. Otherwise I"d be right there with you.

 

[madduck74]

I'm sure they've looked, but it seems they'd be a good chance, the suspect would've visited a gas station or liquor store, or maybe a bar or strip club nearby. There almost has to be a security cam somewhere nearby that caught this guy on video. How has this guy vanished without a trace? There has to be someone, or a camera somewhere that has evidence on this guy.

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[her]

I went to the 1st page with admin notes and see nothing stating we cannot discuss geocaching. Can you direct me to this information? Thanks.

The admins stated so in threads search their posts, trust us it's a no.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

MOO
I think a possibility is that since the sister who dropped the girls off at the bridge is a premium member of geocaching there is a connection. The sister had already found the highbridge geocache last year. (Note: t's under the bridge but can be found while walking along the top- could be a reason for looking down too). She had taken Libby to four other area geocaches Feb 11. So my thought is Libby wanted to do more geocaches and since her sister had already done the bridge geocache and didn't want to go again she dropped Libby and Abby off for a few hours so they could find that geocache on their own. I have hopes that LE has investigated this angle for an online connection. I did notice one geocacher that seemed unusual was one who has been a member since 2011 yet has only publically logged one geocache ever. And that one geocache was the highbridge one and the date was January 2017. Is this something that should be reported or do you reckon LE has checked this kind of thing out already?

Yes, please call it in.

 

[jenmcq]

Hi long time lurker here and first time posting!

Going off my feeling that it was a chance encounter and not a planned meet up...I am thinking BG saw the girls get dropped off. He must've known they were alone there. I can't imagine he would take these two girls with the possibility of their guardian being right around the corner. There have been plenty of times when I've gone to our local hiking areas (mainly to geocache!) and my son and his friends went off on their own. If I couldn't hear them anymore or they didn't answer me when I called I would use the find my iPhone app and could see how far away he was.

So maybe he was waiting for the right person to attack and was watching when the girls got dropped off.




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[LaborDayRN]

Hey everyone, new user here. Long time lurker but this case has prompted me to create an account, finally got around to doing it so I could add some input, however minor it might be.

1. Based off of everything I've read I do think that he forced them down the hill (with some kind of firearm, I find it unlikely he'd have the same sway if it was just a knife) where he proceeded to make them cross the creek
2. I can't be sure of the latter but the police would be, I don't think they ran across the creek to get away from him like the others have said
3. My reasoning for this is that the area where their bodies were found would be the perfect place off the trail for him to execute his will on them, far enough away and out of sight where people would be less likely to intervene if they did hear something and the chances of someone spotting it happening would be quite slim given the time frame.
4. I do think he was waiting near the start of the bridge a ways back maybe a bit off the trail until they passed where he proceeded to follow them
5. By the time the girls noticed they were already too far up the tracks to turn back, something about his demeanor creeped them out enough for one of the girls to start recording, this doesn't seem like normal behaviour in my opinion.

So in conclusion, I do NOT think this was a random killing but it's possible the girls were random targets, I DO think he pre-planned everything, from the placement of the bodies, to the lack of evidence, to the response by the FBI, to the calculated and determined sound of his voice. Taking that into account I also believe that he knew the area well and frequented it, he has probably killed before and might strike again based on what I've read about other cases and from how calculated this attack sounds.

:welcome5::greetings:

 

[LaborDayRN]

Hi long time lurker here and first time posting!

Going off my feeling that it was a chance encounter and not a planned meet up...I am thinking BG saw the girls get dropped off. He must've known they were alone there. I can't imagine he would take these two girls with the possibility of their guardian being right around the corner. There have been plenty of times when I've gone to our local hiking areas (mainly to geocache!) and my son and his friends went off on their own. If I couldn't hear them anymore or they didn't answer me when I called I would use the find my iPhone app and could see how far away he was.

So maybe he was waiting for the right person to attack and was watching when the girls got dropped off.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:wagon::greetings:

 

[LadyL]

I drive that daily for work.

80 miles is next to nothing in these kinds of crimes. Perverts go all over the map to find new places to commit these sick actions.

Also, people in rural areas drive long distances quite often. They are used to traveling to other areas for services, larger stores, visiting family, etc.

I don't think 80 miles means much in terms of ruling out a connection. JMO :moo:

 

[Hatfield]

I'm sure they've looked, but it seems they'd be a good chance, the suspect would've visited a gas station or liquor store, or maybe a bar or strip club nearby. There almost has to be a security cam somewhere nearby that caught this guy on video. How has this guy vanished without a trace? There has to be someone, or a camera somewhere that has evidence on this guy.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

Ive been thinking the exact same thing just now.

There seems to be a main parking area and main way to get into that place. So I hope LE has asked all the homeowners around the area for any of their home security videos that may have picked up vehicles entering the general area.

Even if blocks away there is likely a chance someone caught the person on video that day and just did not know it. I really hope LE gathered up all available videos from homeowners and stores anywhere even close to that location.

They then could try to track down the owners of such vehicles and by process of elimination they may narrow it down to a few suspect vehicles.

And the same method works if he was on foot and it works even better. A video camera may have caught him walking away from the area and into town.

The recent case I followed for the Garland triple murder in Canada turned out that he was captured on a homeowners security camera which really helped identify him and was evidence used in trial to convict him. It proved he was in the area at time of murders.

Its a little late now but hopefully all the FBI and LE thought of this and went door to door asking for such videos shortly after the murders.

 

[Eileen730]

Huum....Didn't I read early on that muck boots were found nearby the creek? If so,he took off in a hurry and forgot them. IMHO I think he knew the landowner was away,and if so,must either know him,or someone the landowner told that he would be away. Was anyone coming to feed any animals on that property?
Going through old reports, on April 26,2014 the landowner called police to report a burgler at 9:49PM, in his barn...but the person fled before police arrived. I wonder if someone sneaks there on occasion,when they think the owner isn't home?

I don't think the homeowner was gone for long he was back home by 6 i believe . Just.gone the afternoon.

Not on vacation.

 

[Coquette]

Not sure if this was posted yet as a possible connection. Is this the next one?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4281496/Missing-Indianapolis-woman-dead-sandbar.html

Yes, I posted it a bit earlier. Wondering if there is a connection as well.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Did they ever say who the 2nd family member was that was suppose to pick them up

The thing is that a different family member was scheduled for pickup. I don't think anything was other than it was planned to be. Otherwise, sis would have driven them home. And if they went without permission (like others have speculated), then why involve 2 different family members? These are just my opinions. But what makes most sense to me is that these 2 friends were getting out of the house and enjoying the weather for their day off from school and had plans to be dropped off and picked up within a couple of hours. Sounds so normal and believable, to me. I don't think anything extra had to be added in there.