IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 - #31

[gliving]

It's interesting that RL was moved to a different county jail - the same day a search warrant was served on his property.

What are the odds?

 

[cluciano63]

It is possible that an alibi which originally checked out, has since fallen apart. Happens a lot, i.e a person covers for a friend or relative, then gets cold feet.

 

[jillycat]

Here's my current working theory on how we got to today: RL's alibi suddenly doesn't look so solid, so they get him on a minor probation violation (maybe even on obstruction for giving a false alibi) that allows them to hold him for 15 days. In a WTHR interview from RL's property today, Sgt. Kim Riley again used the "untrue alibi" type line when asked why they were there, so that seems to be about RL.

While in custody, RL said something--either inadvertently or in attempt to explain why he wasn't truthful before--that gave them PC to search his property. The WIBC story I posted in the last thread made clear it was the Carroll County Sheriff's office who uncovered the new development--not ISP or FBI, so it would seem the PC wasn't the result of analysis of existing evidence like DNA, fibers, etc. In fact, IMO, it is their hope is to get more of that type of evidence with this search, rather than them looking to find matches to what they already have.

This seems to be backed up by the fact that RL didn't seem to clam up with LE until very recently. While we can't know for sure, IMO, it was just in the last day or so. Reporters have been asking LE about RL since he was arrested, but it was only today that the lawyer put out a statement that said he didn't do it. And while that is certainly because they searched his property, I can't imagine the lawyer wouldn't have wanted to clear it up with press as soon as he was arrested and questions were being asked--unless something was said in last few days by RL that led to the warrant, and RL becoming uncooperative.

Now, you real experts can poke holes in my theory.

If I understand the media reports, LE has all but said that something emerged during the course of the investigation, as it relates to RL's recent arrest, that gave them their probable cause. So yes, it appears he said something that offered more information or he blew up his own alibi.

As for lawyers, I'm not one, but my observation is that they don't say anything they don't have to. I can see why his lawyer would not make it a priority to rush to a mic to profess his innocence when he's not been named a suspect. Now that this search happened, it makes sense that the lawyer is making a statement. Guess we'll see what comes of the search.

 

[Snape394]

Many killers leave bodies or bury bodies on their own property. Gacy, Dahmer, and recently, Todd Kohlhepp are just a few.

True. But wouldnt someone like that want to hide them? I don't mean this to sound crude, but wouldn't he want to bury them like a trophy? They were left close to where they disappeared I am sure that thought crossed the mind of whomever murdered them. In my opinion, the perp wanted them found, I also think they may have been positioned in such a way as to taunt LE. :c

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[gitana1]

Hi Gitana!

BG=Bridge Guy=suspect

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I think he could be BG. The photo IS grainy but yhete are certainly enough similarities. The search and arrest indicate LE believes he is highly likely to be their man. The fact that the reporter asked him to repeat the phrase indicates others do too. IMO.

 

[Julpal]

I can't grasp why the use of the word pristine is anything at all. To my mind, there is no better word to describe untouched nature, which, I believe is what he was trying to say.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

I have a hard time with that, too, but I know that police deal with so many teenagers who go "missing" voluntarily due to family issues, school problems, etc., so it's understandable that they only look into cases where there are definite signs of foul play. I'm not saying I agree with it, but I can see how they may have heard that two teenage girls didn't show up somewhere on time and assumed that they were voluntarily avoiding going home for some reason.

I agree totally. I hope my post didn't sound judgmental of LE. I absolutely sympathise with their situation and the decisions and fast judgement calls they have to make.

After the fact, though, it's so incredibly haunting.

____________
The above is just my opinion.

 

[sf92]

http://wishtv.com/

Any idea what type of equipment is shown at the 39 second mark (survey or camera, maybe)?

It is a 3d mapping tool to put a 3d crime scene into a data base

http://www.faro.com/en-us/solutions/applications/crime-scene-analysis

It is used to scan a crime scene and generate a 3d digital model.

 

[matou]

Do we know if the girls were covered up with somethig, buried or left exposed? I haven't read anything about that at all.

 

[BoggLed in Ohio]

I hope I am not interrupting the flow of the thread but just wanted to comment.

Protective custody was my first thought last week when LE arrested Logan. Now I don't think so.

The FBI has access to sophisticated voice recognition software. I have to
wonder if Logan's voice is thought to be the one on the recording. It sounds to me as if it is. I've been here since day one and only posted twice, but one of the posts was that I thought the voice was one of an older man.

Some say that a man of Logan's age would not be able to accomplish the murder of two healthy young girls. I disagree. My grandfather was a builder and worked past the age of 70 because he wanted to (he owned the company). He could still climb a ladder and inspect a roof his workers had put on a new build.

We all know adrenaline can give you energy to do things you wouldn't normally be able to do. I think a 70 year old in reasonably good health could do whatever he needed to do. Just IMO.

I hope it was not RL, but he does appear to be in reasonably good health for an habitual drinker.

I have to admit I have not felt sympathetic towards RL for all of the DUI's he has had. Please no one offer sympathy to me but my only son was killed on Thanksgiving day by a drunk driver who was drunk by noon and had a couple of DUI's in his past. My son was a junior in college and we were waiting Thanksgiving dinner on him. That was in 1999. How much anyone drinks in the privacy of their own home is none of my business but when it kills your only son, it becomes your business when they are on our streets and highways.

Sorry for the long post. I just finally had to post. I normally lurk because someone has inevitably said exactly what I would have said by the time I finally catch up.

Thanks, and please no condolences on the loss of my son because that is not why I posted it.

MOO

Fisrt of all I'm very sorry for your loss, I can't even imagine! And I too find hard to have sympathy for habitual drunk drivers.

Secondly I agree with you there are many older men who can do extremely hard labor at advanced ages. My father-in-law was still carrying 80 pound stacks of shingles on his shoulder up a ladder doing Roofing in his eighties.

 

[WebSight]

Well, that's me done. It is very, very, very dark-thirty for me on the other side of the pond so I must bid you all good night.:bed:

One step closer!

 

[liltexans]

True. But wouldnt someone like that want to hide them? I don't mean this to sound crude, but wouldn't he want to bury them like a trophy? They were left close to where they disappeared I am sure that thought crossed the mind of whomever murdered them. In my opinion, the perp wanted them found, I also think they may have been positioned in such a way as to taunt LE. :c

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

I don't know. You could be right. Some killers want their victims fond and some don't. Some bury their victims and some don't. It's hard for the rest of us to understand their motivations or sick predispositions.

 

[alucardsdream]

I agree totally. I hope my post didn't sound judgmental of LE. I absolutely sympathise with their situation and the decisions and fast judgement calls they have to make.

After the fact, though, it's so incredibly haunting.

____________
The above is just my opinion.

It is heartbreaking. Especially when you're dealing with two girls who had absolutely no history of running away...that should be enough to trigger LE into realizing that foul play was a distinct possibility.

 

[whiskers]

I do hope LE has and are interviewing recently incarcerated residents of Delphi and the county. Also those incarcerated who may know people or families involved. And furthermore, those incarcerated and recently released who may know anyone or families involved.

Sometimes there are grudges.

Hopefully we will find out if RL had someone living with him or has a hired hand that helps on a freelance basis, etc.

I'm also curious if Abby slept over at Libby's the night before. I do hope all angles are being covered concerning people responsible and in care of the girls.

 

[atlantasleuth]

I'm American, Hubby is English, and we have lived in France for a long time. When we come to America, where do you think people think I come from, no matter what part of the U.S. we're in?

A) America?
B) England?
C) France?

Australia every time!

I'm from Washington D.C. Completely accent neutral. Husband is from far south Georgia but has zero hint of an accent. It's always fun when people try to pin where we're from, haha.

 

[chocolope]

I read a while ago that LE would consider releasing more info if need be in terms of the video. Does anyone else recall that? I am wondering if LE has enough evidence to NOT release further video and soundites?

I don't have a link off-hand, but in an interview when asked if LE will release more of the tape, LE stated "We hope we don't have to."

They haven't been crystal clear about some aspects and I don't have citations for each but so far LE has indicated:

- The 2 photos of BG are still frames taken from a longer video recording
- The media was recovered from Libby's phone, found on her body (see below)
- The clip also contains audio ("down the hill")
- When asked if BG is the person talking, LE very deliberately does not confirm
- Instead they very specifically stated "We would like people to make that assumption."

Some of the critical bits of information that have not been provided yet (to my knowledge)

- Timestamp of the recording(s)
- Does LE at least know BG is the person talking (even if they won't confirm to public)
- Whether the media had been deleted and recovered by forensics

I'm specifically interested in whether the media needed to be restored because it would indicate a certain awareness by the killer. I'm extremely confused as to how someone could stalk these girls and not realize they're recording audio/video, potentially of their killers. According to family the girls were there specifically for the purpose of taking photos. Yet this evidence was left.

A few possibilities I can think of:

- Killer(s) unaware of being recorded (opportunistic kill, somewhat random, unfamiliar with habits)
- Killer(s) left evidence intentionally, possibly even wanted witness/documentation (serial killer who leaves clues)
- Killer(s) planned to be more thorough in destruction of evidence but were frenzied (often hallmark of first kills)
- Killer(s) planned to be more thorough in destruction of evidence but were interrupted (raises more questions than answers unfortunately)
- Killer(s) tried to destroy phone but failed (tech illiterate, possibly older)
- Killer(s) tried to remove files but forensics recovered them anyway (tech savvy, younger killer)

 

[liltexans]

It is heartbreaking. Especially when you're dealing with two girls who had absolutely no history of running away...that should be enough to trigger LE into realizing that foul play was a distinct possibility.

It should have been, but it so often isn't, especially with teens and even more so if it's more than one. And Delphi is a super small town that had never dealt with anything close to this. They won't make this mistake again the next time a teen doesn't show up on time, IMO. Their police force has been shocked into a new reality.

 

[jnTexas]

I really don't think RL did this. I do think someone he knew took advantage of an out building.

I could be totally wrong. I think if the slightest chance he did this, he may have been ticked off they were trespassing on his property and lost it. It also would answer why she was able to record, as he is probably not tech savvy.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Brought over from last thread:

posted by Ms Marple

IIRC this is the first vehicle LE has hauled off during a search so IMO it's significant. In what way though is the big mystery right now. For all we know they may have decided to tow it away simply because the search warrant allowed them to. Or there may be a more sinister reason.

One speculation on my part is that if LE discovered that RL wasn't 100% accurate on the time he was away from home - IOW, if he was in the truck after the time the girls were murdered rather than before - then LE might want to check his truck to see if any fibers, blood, etc. were left inside.


Yes, seeing how they took it on a flatbed, it seems they are taking it for forensics. And maybe whomever drove it, had been in close contact with the girls and left evidence inside the vehicle.

I just cannot think of any believable scenarios in which the girls were inside the truck.

Hi, Katydid23.

I have to wonder if the dogs had hit on the truck. There was a friend with RL in one of the interviews. Could be the friend had the girls scent on him and he rode in RL's truck. If the dogs hit on the truck there could have even been a spot of blood on it or in it. Who knows?

Obviously I don't know what happened or who did it. None of us do. I hope there will be justice for Abby and Libby. I am just so angry these innocent girls were murdered. This is JMO.

 

[mrsu]

Here in my state if you get an interlock system on your vehicle, a little machine you blow in before driving, you can still drive on a suspended license. Makes no sense but it's true.