IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #37

[SunStar]

MO...Perhaps the searchers just didn't find the bodies that night. They got permission to search at ~6:30 and possibly had an hour or so of daylight at that. DSL didn't go into effect until 3/4. I think they were there all along...

 

[tokyorose]

I questioned this last night and got no response. I must have missed it too.

I do not think LE has said they were "forced to walk down a road" I think that was a posters impression based on the audio LE released and the poster made a statement that could be taken as fact instead of using the IMO...

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

My final thought on him not being disguised. Look at the Unabomber, he used sunglasses. So this guy "planned" on being disguised and forgot to bring sunglasses for the early afternoon stalking. Sunglasses would have made it much harder to recognize someone. Yet he did not which leads me to believe he did not plan on wearing extra clothing to disguise himself when sunglasses would be easier and less creepy.

JMO...
Because you can't hide items you need to commit a crime in a pair of sunglasses?

 

[FriscoKid]

I am really interested in more details of how you think the crime was committed. If it was a drifter just passing through who saw an opportunity, do you think it was the first time he killed? Also what do you think the details are regarding when he met up with them, how he led the girls to where they were found and when, and by what means, what direction and at what time was he able to leave the scene undetected. If he's new to the area do you think he's still there? I'm just trying to get a fresh perspective on things maybe we haven't thought of before. TIA

Personally, I do not think it was his first time. I base that on what I've heard elsewhere hat we cannot address here. I think he may have just been out "trolling" and either came across them earlier on the trail and doubled back or watched them enter and followed. I doubt he assumed he had time or opportunity to take them elsewhere to commit the acts then return them - that it happened where they were found or near there. He may have started moving them and got spooked or something. I do not the k he would still be around unless he's totally insane, arrogant or a complete narcissist who can't imagine being caught. The girls may just not have been found the first night because it was dark. Could be that simple. Often times people who commit crimes don't really have an escape route planned. They just walk away with no urgency and don't draw attention to themselves - because they have no conscience like the rest of us. They are workmanlike about it. It's what they do.

I realize that's not real sexy but it's more often the case. Henry Lee Lucas killed a ton of people and just moved on down the road. It's just what he did.

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[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

I do not think LE has said they were "forced to walk down a road" I think that was a posters impression based on the audio LE released and the poster made a statement that could be taken as fact instead of using the IMO...

Thank you. I think the original poster forgot to moo.

 

[Oregonmama]

Personally, I do not think it was his first time. I base that on what I've heard elsewhere hat we cannot address here. I think he may have just been out "trolling" and either came across them earlier on the trail and doubled back or watched them enter and followed. I doubt he assumed he had time or opportunity to take them elsewhere to commit the acts then return them - that it happened where they were found or near there. He may have started moving them and got spooked or something. I do not the k he would still be around unless he's totally insane, arrogant or a complete narcissist who can't imagine being caught. The girls may just not have been found the first night because it was dark. Could be that simple. Often times people who commit crimes don't really have an escape route planned. They just walk away with no urgency and don't draw attention to themselves - because they have no conscience like the rest of us.


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agree. And I think he will strike again

 

[Mainemom76]

Keep in mind that LE has said they don't have any evidence that BG is a serial killer.

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...delphi-columbus-deaths-not-relaated/98801456/


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This article is from March 6th

 

[Oregonmama]

This article is from March 6th

And LE does not not have to tell us (public) everything. I do not expect them to tell us everything while investigating

 

[tokyorose]

MO...Perhaps the searchers just didn't find the bodies that night. They got permission to search at ~6:30 and possibly had an hour or so of daylight at that. DSL didn't go into effect until 3/4. I think they were there all along...

This is of course certainly possible. Based on previous discussions, this would make the killer's timeline extremely tight. If he abducted them immediately after Abby's picture was taken on the bridge that would give him very little time. Keep in mind in that picture there was no BG on the bridge. So give him 10 minutes to show up now it's 2:20. Assuming no car then a 30 minute walk to where they were found ,slowly and quietly with a gun to their backs to keep them in control. It's 2:50 by the time they are in the spot where they were found. It has been reported early on that family was present and calling for them by 4:00pm. That leaves only 1 hour and 10 minutes at most for BG to commit the crimes and get out of dodge, in broad daylight. Certainly possible, but we also have the comments of Libby's grandfather that her phone was pinging around town. This really close timeline is one reason why I believe both girls were not sexually assaulted. JMO..

 

[changeindeed]

Hi! I'm not new to this site but I am new to posting in this thread [I am a lurker, lol if you couldn't tell by my 10 posts]. I usually read these when my 1.5 yr old son is asleep

I've been reading as much as I can and, agonizingly enough, reading almost ALL the threads... skimming a few posts, I admit. But- still! I've been paying attention. It's amazing to see how amazing some of you are at editing a picture to get a better idea where BG was standing & where the girls could have been possibly. Even going to the area to take a picture. This place is really something! Really makes my brain work and think of everything.

Now, just my MOO & JMO of everything I've thought of! Sorry if some of what I said is :deadhorse:

I don't think BG & RL are the same. Their builds and voices are different to me. I do, however... think RL knows them. I can't really say much else because I think it goes against the rules here of sleuthing so

When I listen to the audio... I hear "Go down the hill". And he doesn't sound out of breathe or worried. More of a matter-of-fact & ordering if you will.. like how you give directions. Which is scary in itself but also amazing she was able to record that so we have it! To me, from his voice... he has an accent from how he says "hill" like southern or something? "Heel" is how I am hearing it.. he also sounds like he is in his late 30s to 40s. I think he is a local from the voice, JMO.

I don't think BG was overdressed BUT I do think he had things hiding in his jacket to prepare for this... It just seems bulkier than what a jacket would. Even if he's wearing 3 jackets (could be three with how sometimes there is more than 2 jackets underneath). JMO, i think this was planned and he somehow knew they were going that day. As some were saying... her stuff was public and, JMO, maybe BG was stalking all this and, being a small town (????) he was able to find out when they were going. Maybe, MOO, Facebook posts or IG or something?!?? that he found out to go there.

I also think they ran into him earlier.. he said something to them or just gave off a weird vibe. I've been in that situation where someone gave me a weird vibe more than once and felt like they were following me so I quickly ran back to where there was multiple people. Anyways... there is a reason she was recording BG. They probably saw him before and maybe he was saying something in the video or maybe the girls were since LE hasn't released the video so maybe there is evidence of that as well? I just think the girls recorded BG on the bridge because they knew something bad was about to happen and being smart in getting as much evidence as they could :whine:

I hope BG is found... This story makes me so sad and I always check in every day to read, hoping for some more clues or a new update. This reminds me of the other case with 2 girls found in the woods. Can't remember their names at the moment... pregnancy / mom brain, sorry lol.

Hope I didn't break any rules, lol.

:lurk:

Oh gosh, great post! BTW the running into him earlier is a fantastic thought! It would make so much sense why she (Libby) would have the great idea to begin recording.

Thanks for posting!

 

[tokyorose]

Personally, I do not think it was his first time. I base that on what I've heard elsewhere hat we cannot address here. I think he may have just been out "trolling" and either came across them earlier on the trail and doubled back or watched them enter and followed. I doubt he assumed he had time or opportunity to take them elsewhere to commit the acts then return them - that it happened where they were found or near there. He may have started moving them and got spooked or something. I do not the k he would still be around unless he's totally insane, arrogant or a complete narcissist who can't imagine being caught. The girls may just not have been found the first night because it was dark. Could be that simple. Often times people who commit crimes don't really have an escape route planned. They just walk away with no urgency and don't draw attention to themselves - because they have no conscience like the rest of us. They are workmanlike about it. It's what they do.

I realize that's not real sexy but it's more often the case. Henry Lee Lucas killed a ton of people and just moved on down the road. It's just what he did.

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Thanks for this. I'm not trying to nit pick so please don't take it that way, but then you do believe BG is a serial killer. Also, do you think he had a gun in his coat? I happen to think I see one, but different people see different things.

 

[Spellbound]

I questioned this last night and got no response. I must have missed it too.

Falling Down posted last night: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...i-13-Februray-2017-36&p=13252743#post13252743
The other house was at the end of the road they were forced to walk down to.


Which IMHO brings up BG's age. He must have been young enough to chase them.

We have no factual idea if they were actually forced anywhere, although it seems probable ... we have just the audio saying "down the hill". Seems to be some speculation if anyone said they were "forced down a road". If someone knows differently, can you please share the link?

 

[atmh]

Okay, having read the above post, it makes sense to me, too, that they may well have run into him already. But do we know, with certainty, that her phone pinged around town AFTER they were dropped off at the bridge? Because NO WAY would the killer knowingly have that phone with her/them, and then leave it at the site where they were found. Nor we he take it with him (without them) and then later return it. So do we know if those pings were, in fact, AFTER they were left off at the bridge?

 

[Mainemom76]

This is of course certainly possible. Based on previous discussions, this would make the killer's timeline extremely tight. If he abducted them immediately after Abby's picture was taken on the bridge that would give him very little time. Keep in mind in that picture there was no BG on the bridge. So give him 10 minutes to show up now it's 2:20. Assuming no car then a 30 minute walk to where they were found ,slowly and quietly with a gun to their backs to keep them in control. It's 2:50 by the time they are in the spot where they were found. It has been reported early on that family was present and calling for them by 4:00pm. That leaves only 1 hour and 10 minutes at most for BG to commit the crimes and get out of dodge, in broad daylight. Certainly possible, but we also have the comments of Libby's grandfather that her phone was pinging around town. This really close timeline is one reason why I believe both girls were not sexually assaulted. JMO..

Whenever I see a smaill time frame I tbink of Gabby Doolin

 

[MsMarple]

Once again I'm far behind so apologies if this has already been posted - I'm only on #250! Also, I'm trying to get all of it into one post so as not to take up too much space, lol.

First, here's the link to Sgt. Slocum's interview this morning on WBAT radio:

http://www.wbat.com/episode/tony-slocum/

He recapped the case, pointed out that it's not like TV where cases get solved in an hour, said he's been out to the trail and wouldn't have any worries letting his kids go out there. He says Libby is a hero and how the girls stayed together.

Starting around 6:00 Slocum says LE doesn't know if there were multiple people there. He said LE is not saying the photograph and audio are the same person for sure. He says they believe he was talking to the girls - almost certain from the evidence they have. He says there are 13 people in jail right now due to arrests (not connected to the murders) while checking on tips.

Slocum also talked about the impact of SM on the case. He said the public has overreacted on some things and doesn't want someone going after an innocent person. LE is monitoring SM. He said it's possible that the suspect has left the area but he is positive LE will make an arrest sooner rather than later.

Next, LE has modified the way they are vetting the tips in order to make it more efficient:

DELPHI, Ind. –- Indiana State Police posts have added more resources to assist in the investigation of two teen girls murdered in Delphi over a month ago.

Each ISP post has an investigation squad and troopers have been assigned to follow up on tips in their assigned post areas.

The Indianapolis squad has been assigned 140 tips in the past two weeks and troopers are actively checking on every single one.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...w-resources-to-assist-in-delphi-investigation

And finally, here is quote from RL's attorney prior to today's hearing:

Achey said his client had a hearing Wednesday for an unrelated case.

“Well, it essentially means that we asked the court to set a bond or to let him go on some sort of community corrections program like home detention or work release prior to the fact finding or prior to the trial in the OWI probation violation,” he said.

http://wishtv.com/2017/03/22/more-t...ation-continues-in-delphi-double-murder-case/

 

[WebSight]

Thanks. If you go to GH's video, it will show ( and also explain in a conversation between the two of us, "Newest Comments"), that the frame/video Libby took of the POI/BG rather aligns perfectly with him being at the level of the 5th platform or shortly thereafter.

The tricky part to align the existing POI/BG pic with surroundings like the key tree RRTs and gaps in-between have to do with the angle of the existing youtube video of the bridge GH used ( and so am I) in combination with the angle of where Libby was standing ( if she took the video herself) and the zoom factor used on her cell phone.

All IMO

-Nin

[video=youtube;uBE422LFIdg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBE422LFIdg[/video]

Oh, thanks for that and linking the video. I will have to have a look. Sorry to be so late in responding I had to be away for awhile...life called.

Just wondering: one thing that we cannot know I guess though is whether Libby video'd on zoom and the photo was grabbed from it or whether LE grabbed the shot (from non-zoomed video) and blew it up. If the video was not shot in zoom then Libby would have shot it from farther and that would put him nearer that 5th platform. So, were you guys assuming that Libby video'd in zoom?

 

[Justice101]

Man, things sure get far afield here. Disguises? Fall guys? Planted evidence? Moving bodies? Kill kits? Framing? More times than not, the simplest answer is the right one.


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I think that comes with the territory here... We have a lot of people who want this solved, who have watched maybe a little too much TV and been given only a tiny morsel of evidence... You've got to be creative with so little to come up with an explanation and guilty party.

Once a person is arrested, THAT is when the real useful background digging will go on. This early stuff is mostly just guessing I'm afraid.

 

[tokyorose]

Okay, having read the above post, it makes sense to me, too, that they may well have run into him already. But do we know, with certainty, that her phone pinged around town AFTER they were dropped off at the bridge? Because NO WAY would the killer knowingly have that phone with her/them, and then leave it at the site where they were found. Nor we he take it with him (without them) and then later return it. So do we know if those pings were, in fact, AFTER they were left off at the bridge?

Libby's grandfather stated that her phone was pinging all around town after they were dropped off at the bridge, however the only real way to know if that is fact would be to have the cell phone records. LE has them I'm sure. We don't. JMO but I think one of two things is possible, that Libby hid the phone near her ( under leaves or something) while the crime was committed and killer didn't know it was there. Or killer found the phone not realizing that many phones now are water resistant up to 100 feet or so through the phone in the creek... JMO.

 

[ab01]

One thing I always try to keep in mind while following these cases. These investigations are fluid, and by that I mean just bc LE makes a certain statement early on doesn't mean that they haven't changed their mind or found different evidence later on. We aren't privy to the ongoing details. So I always try to keep a little bit of open mind to the things stated by LE especially early on in an investigation. Just my opinion


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[Deleted member 196796]

My first post. I have done my best to read every post in this forum regarding the murders of Abby and Libby. I agree with a great deal of the theories, statements and or opinions I have read thus far. I look forward to any feedback. It doesn’t hurt my feelings to give 2 cents and get change back. I’m not a believer in coincidences.

“Coincidence is the word we use when we can't see the levers and pulleys” – Emma Bull

The images below were captured from a news media video located at this link [video=youtube;s91Q1WRuN3E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s91Q1WRuN3E[/video]


Below shows 2 images of RL on February 16, 2017 on his property near the location of the crime scene.

The below image is of the suspect (BG) identified by LE from a video found on Libby German’s cell phone February 13, 2017.

BG

I am sure most of you are recognizing the resemblances between RL and BG from the above images. Here’s my questions based on my observations.

1. Are they both are wearing hoodies?
2. Are they both wearing camouflaged baseball style caps?
3. Are they both wearing similar outer jackets over the hoodies?
4. Are they both wearing jeans?
5. Are they both wearing glasses? Maybe transition lens.
6. Are they both displaying the same style of gait?
7. WHY WOULD BG WANT TO PORTRAY HIMSELF AS RL?
a. Is it a coincidence that the suspect is attempting to look like the property owner where he is planning on committing the crime?
b. Do Abby and Libby know RL?
c. If so, would this allow someone to get close to Abby and Libby before they realize it’s not RL?
d. Did BG know RL and where his property lines were located?
e. Maybe BG had a grudge with RL with so much sophisticated effort in framing him? It sure has taken the attention away from BG.
8. What alarmed Libby to begin recording BG?
a. If Libby or Abby was acquainted with RL did they think it was RL and started recording for fun and then realized it was not RL?
b. Did she realize it was someone else she recognized and then hid her phone?
c. Did Libby think the man was over dressed for the current temperature? Was BG over dressed for the temperature as well as possible concealing a weapon and other items needed in order to commit the pre-planned crime?
d. Notice how Abby is dressed on the bridge in the photo Libby had posted to snap chat. It appears a light jacket with a light shirt. Sun was shining and notice the fall of her shadow on the bridge as does BG’s shadow in his photo. This is the same time of the day.
9. Was it a coincidence this terrible crime happened on Monday, February 13[SUP]th[/SUP]?
a. Was it public knowledge that there would be no school on this day?
b. How far in advance was it posted and how was this information passed on to the community?
c. Did anyone from either family mention to anyone that Abby and Libby would be going to the trail that day? Did anyone mention to anyone else the time they would be getting dropped off?

I don’t find it much of a coincidence at all that BG went out of his way to portray RL as a ruse for getting close to the girls and to allow anyone else in the area to believe he was RL with just a quick glance. I don’t find it a coincidence the bodies were found on RL’s property. BG gathered intel and conducted recons of the area and rehearsed the phases to commit these killings. It’s not a coincident he was aware of the exact time window he had to complete the crime and flee the area before a search party would be on scene saturating the woods searching for the girls.

IMO known facts instead of assumptions: BG was totally unaware Libby had a cell phone much less had already recorded him and was continuously recording. If Libby’s phone was found on her person or in her clothing BG never searched for the phone or if the phone was found tossed away from the scene Libby deliberately cached the phone for LE to recover.

Confusion: Was the area of the crime scene searched by volunteers the night of February 13[SUP]th[/SUP]? Is there a chance the bodies were overlooked in the dark or are they certain the bodies were not there during the initial search? I have read where there was a theory the bodies could have been brought back to the crime scene between 2:00 – 9:30 am.