IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #37

[ocgrad]

SBM

This is one of the reasons I think they were targeted.

Me too.

 

[Momma2cam]

Thankyou.. saves me looking. Can you see if it was mentioned additionally to this or not? I am still looking

This article was written 2/20 and updated 2/22 after the press conference, which is where it was first mentioned. I haven't seen it mentioned in any further reporting. Jmo.

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[kizzykat]

I keep going back to what looks like a small cabin that I saw early on when I was looking at the area on Google Earth. It was mentioned in one of the early threads but I don't recall seeing it brought up since. (I've skipped a few pages at times to keep up.) It has stayed in the back of my mind and is really bugging me. If a killer wanted an isolated spot that probably wasn't being used that time of year, there it sits, within walking distance of the bridge along the creek, and it doesn't appear to have a vehicle path to it. Seems well hidden by woods. One would have to know it was there (local), but anyone looking can see it on a map or by exploring off trail or seeing it from a kayak (non-local). LE has to know it's there, I wonder if they searched it? But if BG did use it why later move the girls to RL's property? Why not just do his evil deed and leave? Unless he was using creek water to get rid of evidence while heading back to his way out? 50' from the bank isn't a huge distance, it's the width of many suburban lawns. I don't think RL is BG. And I think BG was on the prowl that day and came prepared. Anyway, I'm just tossing this out, thinking out loud, so many things about this case don't make sense. Largest pic for perspective, then zoomed in, the up close but from a different angle showing the roof line. All are screenshots from Google Earth and slid back to winter 2012 for visibility. All just IMO and MOO.

 

[FreeRoad]

They were found in 30 minutes!

I've never even heard of anything like that.

Started search at 11:45 am and they were found at 12:15 pm

And we keep hearing how tough the terrain is to move through.


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Interesting points; could you provide any links regarding the actual search that morning? I don't want to go too far brainstorming and speculating on the basis of what might turn out to be rumors...I would love to see any kind of log or timeline of the LE/search activity from that morning. And who searched/how they organized searchers (but not to name names, just procedures.)Has anyone compiled any of this yet? Thanks!

 

[tokyorose]

I never claimed that everyone working at a slaughterhouse is a murderer. Never said that. I said it's not a stretch to think someone could become desensitized to killing living creatures doing that work.

I've seen the undercover videos from some plants and it's really pretty disgusting how the animals are treated. I could never do it. But I'm not trying to start any debate on that topic.

Also need to consider the proximity and the employee turnover.

Does anyone know if the packing plant employs and RSO's?

All just my opinion.

I believe that yes meat packing plants are known to employ some people that would otherwise be unemployable, and I think early on in earlier threads, it was discussed whether or not RSO's working there could be involved. If I recall there might have been a couple. That being said it is JMO that LE has already looked at RSO's in Delphi, it is also JMO that they have DNA from the crime scene that would quickly rule out RSO's in the system after 2005, if they were not a match from the crime scene. It is also JMO that additionally they (LE) tracked down RSO's with DNA not in the system to make sure they had alibi's on 2/13 and to make sure they were in compliance...that is JMO, but an educated one.

 

[ocgrad]

In am not saying the searcher(s) that found the bodies had anything to do with the deaths, but in some cases it is the perp that "discovers" a body. The perp grows anxious and wants the body to be found.

Especially since the bodies were not found until 12:15 pm, roughly 5 hrs after the search began. One of the pieces that does not make sense.

 

[Eileen730]

is anyone maybe now thinking this could be related to the girls in IA.? just cant get over the similarities

Not I.

 

[Momma2cam]

Interesting points; could you provide any links regarding the actual search that morning? I don't want to go too far brainstorming and speculating on the basis of what might turn out to be rumors...I would love to see any kind of log or timeline of the LE/search activity from that morning. And who searched/how they organized searchers (but not to name names, just procedures.)Has anyone compiled any of this yet? Thanks!

The timelines are conflicting. Some articles reference starting the search first thing in the morning, others state 11:45. A previous poster was listening to scanner history that indicated the search started as early as 7 a.m. This part of the timeline is unclear based on reports, imo.

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[FreeRoad]

I read that alot of the seasoned sleuthers keep a spreadsheet open and quickly copy links to MSM and LE statements and drop them in and use a column for exactly what you've described, "Libby's sister dropped them off" etc. That's how those speedy replies work I believe.

O/T I guess I'm just wondering if there would be a way to do that here, crowd-source style. Rather than links in linear text long-form, have a spreadsheet somewhere here, available to all. I'm not a website/IT person, so maybe it's way too complicated. Just brainstorming while we wait for more. Sorry if this is all too O/T. Mods, delete at will (of course)

 

[WestieMom]

I've wondered if the bulge we are seeing underneath his jacket is a spare change of clothes wrapped in a tarp or plastic -- something he could change into and then secure the other clothes into for his escape. [emoji53]

My mind keeps going to a tarp-like item... a deer drag- That would also have loops / handles on it that could be the white peeking out under his chin / upper chest. They do make a couple with white handles.

Image source: http://www.bagabuckgamebag.com/


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[mhoward48]

We are discussing a murder suspect who controlled two teenage girls and directed them to a river, then murdered them and left their bodies next to a river. He is not a sickly diabetic or stroke candidate. Teenagers are not immune to cold weather. Comparing what people of different ages wear in 49 degree weather is not comparing apples and oranges. Humans have the same physiology regardless of age and it is not true that children do not need to dress properly in cold weather because they are not the same as adults.

I'm not assuming that he's wearing a disguise. He is wearing too many clothing for a day at the park. The girls are dressed appropriately for the weather. They are not wearing two hats and two coats. When a murder suspect is photographed wearing two hats, two coats, and he cannot be identified by a photo, then we know that he has deliberately done something to avoid being recognized - as in: he has done whatever he can to disguise himself.

Or he is not from around there. Maybe from the the south, like where I am?After retiring to the Florida Keys, I have gotten acclimated to this weather here.It took about two years to do so. I use to look at people like they were strange around here, when it got down to 69-70 degrees. They were wearing jeans and hoodie sweatshirts. The first year my husband and me were still in our shorts, as it was still too warm for us. Now, we also are cold when it drops down that low. And I have to go find my long pants and sweatshirt. He could of recently moved to the area, maybe. I know I am speculating, but I did want to give an example of what it is like for someone not use to the weather there. Not saying that what you speculated is wrong either, you could be right and he wanted it to help conceal himself.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Since the crime scene tape runs down to the water, instead of up towards the cemetery, it seems like the creek must come into play.

If they were drowned, why would he bring the bodies 50' inland? Why not just leave them 10' from the edge of the water?

Maybe originally he intended to dispose of the bodies differently, but a searcher or home owner appeared nearby, and he just abandoned them in the next quickest place?


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[SilentRogue]

I hope this case is solved soon.

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[24Roses]

I'm caught up. I'm probably in the minority, but I kind of like the late night shut downs for that reason only. Does anyone know how long it would take and how far it is from RL's house to the Monon High Bridge if one was cutting through the woods? I'm working on a new theory, but because of time and distance it may not work. I know if you were walking on roads it would be about 5 miles and take almost 2 hrs. I have the map, but won't link to it because I'm not sure if it is ok to mention RL's address. Thanks for anyone's input.

 

[FreeRoad]

IMO, that's quite a stretch and not related to what I'm talking about (people who brutally murder animals day after day). Drinking and driving is selfish, reckless and irresponsible to be sure, but I don't see it desensitizing a person the way slaughtering living creatures probably does.

IMO.

I take this to mean, de-sensitization to blood, etc. From personal experience, growing up on a self-sufficient farm where we butchered our own animals, and then working for 5 years in commercial fisheries, I can say that for myself, the sight of literal blood (and more- don't want to be too graphic here) is not something that fazes me at all. I have noticed that now when I am witness to an injury, say a co-worker getting cut, or coming upon a car accident (either human passengers or animals being struck), that I am far less squeamish than many other "bystanders." Also, my mother is an RN, and her matter-of-fact response to family first aid affected me, and I think this theme could also apply to frequent hunters. I think folks who are regularly exposed to blood become less upset or uncomfortable about it. MOO

As for how it relates to this case, I think it could mean that there could be individuals who would be able to "stomach" committing or being privy to such a crime (although we don't actually know COD), and while I initially think "but they would have come forward with a tip by now," I think we've also established some reasons why folks might not come forward.

Just my opinion and ideas on a slow morning...

 

[Momma2cam]

Or he is not from around there. Maybe from the the south, like where I am?After retiring to the Florida Keys, I have gotten acclimated to this weather here.It took about two years to do so. I use to look at people like they were strange around here, when it got down to 69-70 degrees. They were wearing jeans and hoodie sweatshirts. The first year my husband and me were still in our shorts, as it was still too warm for us. Now, we also are cold when it drops down that low. And I have to go find my long pants and sweatshirt. He could of recently moved to the area, maybe. I know I am speculating, but I did want to give an example of what it is like for someone not use to the weather there. Not saying that what you speculated is wrong either, you could be right and he wanted it to help conceal himself.

Additionally, to me it isn't that we differ so much physiologically or that children and teens don't 'need' to dress appropriately but rather how teens choose to dress is different. We live in Michigan and my 13 year old has only worn his large winter coat 2-3 times when I forced him as we were doing family activities outside. Daily, he only wears a hoodie over usually a long sleeve shirt to school, even when the temps have been single digits. It isn't that he is less cold than an adult in this weather but that... I Don't know. I'm still trying to figure out the reason coats are uncool.

I don't see anything unusual about how the girls or BG were dressed that day. JMO.

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[24Roses]

is anyone maybe now thinking this could be related to the girls in IA.? just cant get over the similarities

I was completely convinced in the beginning that it was. However, I now have a new POI in mind that no longer supports that thought.

 

[Rossymom]

It is Friday! Here's hoping for the answers we all have been waiting to hear. Who did this? Why? Where is the facility that you are being held? Can I stand before you and give you my mean-mom look? (Ok, I added the last question for just myself).


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[tokyorose]

Maybe originally he intended to dispose of the bodies differently, but a searcher or home owner appeared nearby, and he just abandoned them in the next quickest place?


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Are we sure that the crime scene tape extended down to the water? That is not what I recall after watching the video the reporter did when the crime scene was initially cleared. I do think it's interesting that that spot was chosen. JMO but it makes me think it was picked out ahead of time. JMO but I only think a vehicle was involved if the suspect is local. A local person with Indiana plates driving around town in the afternoon and later parking at the cemetery may not arouse suspicion. In JMO though, after the fact, cameras from any shop or store that the killer drove near would all have their security footage analyzed, and LE would certainly run plates on any vehicle that was not locally registered. Also if the suspect is from out of town and had a vehicle I just can't see them going to all the trouble to drive away from the abduction site and then drive back to leave the bodies where they were found. It would make more sense to get the girls in the car and high tail it out of Delphi asap..

 

[smiley]

The timelines are conflicting. Some articles reference starting the search first thing in the morning, others state 11:45. A previous poster was listening to scanner history that indicated the search started as early as 7 a.m. This part of the timeline is unclear based on reports, imo.

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I thought they started at 11:45 because I remember wondering why they were starting so late!