IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #40

[KenzieK]

BBM

Yes, that sounds like what I remember and it also struck me as odd...how can they not know? Especially since there have been hints that there is more video (based on the comments along the lines of last thing they'll see before sleep). MOO

I have said this before, but I honestly believe that LE have far less video and audio (and DNA) evidence than they have led us to believe. I also think that they want the perp to believe that they have all this evidence. That way, if they do make an arrest they have a better chance of getting him to confess. (Along the lines of "Listen, we already know what you did since we have the recording and your DNA. But if you come clean now and explain why you did it we can put in a good word with the judge and maybe take the death penalty off the table, blah blah blah").

If you have a crappy hand you better be good at bluffing, and I believe that's what LE has been doing all along. Then again, I am truly HOPING I'm completely wrong and that they have all the evidence they need for a slam dunk conviction!! It's just not the sense I'm getting after following this case from the start.

 

[Confusion]

People keep talking about the hired hand being involved, but I haven't seen heard anything official about him having a hired hand. Did I miss something in MSM or is this just speculation? TIA

I'm also surprised by how many people (a small minority) want to dismiss the idea that the girls deserve to be called heroes. If BG was caught on video, there was most likely sound included. I believe LE would know if he was captured in the video on purpose after hearing what the girls may have been saying during that time. The same is true for the later audio; I don't understand why people would prefer to think that it was accidental or that BG took the phone and recorded what he was saying/doing rather than believing that Libby had the foresight to do it. I personally find it disrespectful to the girls, but that doesn't mean my perception of what happened is correct. Not trying to criticize what others post, or accuse them of anything. I'm just stating my "confusion" and disappointment in some of what I read. MOO

 

[liltexans]

BBM

Yes, that sounds like what I remember and it also struck me as odd...how can they not know? Especially since there have been hints that there is more video (based on the comments along the lines of last thing they'll see before sleep). MOO

I think they either have much more or much less video than they have suggested, which I know are 2 contradicting ideas. They may have much more video and/or audio so they know the crime was about to occur at the "down the hill" moment, but they don't feel the need to let the public and the perp know this.

Or, the video and audio cuts off very shortly after "down the hill", but perhaps not immediately, and LE is somewhat bluffing by vaguely suggesting they have more video and/or audio. They would also do that as a message to the perp, IMO.

 

[KenzieK]

I think her hands were shaking or we would have better video of BG. She was very upset at time of video he was already making his move toward them. Crime had begun. You are right about fear. Fear as they had never known before...

We don't know any of that, and neither does Sgt. Slocum. None of us were there, and none of us were inside Libby's head. If Libby was THAT terrified at that point in time I would hope she would have called 911. IMO the image on the bridge is bad quality because BG wasn't even supposed to be in the shot. I assume Libby's focus was on Abby, and on Abby alone. BG just happened to be walking into the edge of the frame. MOO.

 

[wfsltt]

"pings" do not zero in on the location of the phone but instead the nearest available tower.

Triangulation (from pings) will in fact point to a location. I looked it up and there are three towers so this is very possible. It is the feature used that allows your GPS work. You calculate the time it takes to get a response from each location and it will pin point your location to within a few feet.

 

[liltexans]

People keep talking about the hired hand being involved, but I haven't seen heard anything official about him having a hired hand. Did I miss something in MSM or is this just speculation? TIA

I'm also surprised by how many people (a small minority) want to dismiss the idea that the girls deserve to be called heroes. If BG was caught on video, there was most likely sound included. I believe LE would know if he was captured in the video on purpose after hearing what the girls may have been saying during that time. The same is true for the later audio; I don't understand why people would prefer to think that it was accidental or that BG took the phone and recorded what he was saying/doing rather than believing that Libby had the foresight to do it. I personally find it disrespectful to the girls, but that doesn't mean my perception of what happened is correct. Not trying to criticize what others post, or accuse them of anything. I'm just stating my "confusion" and disappointment in some of what I read. MOO

I have not seen any mention of a hired hand in MSM, so I think that's just speculation.

Are people really suggesting the girls weren't heroes? I haven't read every post. They were definitely heroes. I didn't need LE to tell me that to know it, either. I hope people don't really think the girls weren't. Maybe some posts just come across that way. I know I misunderstand others' posts sometimes. If not, that's a shame because these girls were amazing, IMO.

 

[KenzieK]

I think they either have much more or much less video than they have suggested, which I know are 2 contradicting ideas. They may have much more video and/or audio so they know the crime was about to occur at the "down the hill" moment, but they don't feel the need to let the public and the perp know this.

Or, the video and audio cuts off very shortly after "down the hill", but perhaps not immediately, and LE is somewhat bluffing by vaguely suggesting they have more video and/or audio. They would also do that as a message to the perp, IMO.

BBM.

Very good point. I am leaning towards the latter, but am hoping for the former. LE is being strategic either way.

 

[ocgrad]

"pings" do not zero in on the location of the phone but instead the nearest available tower.

But GPS location is accurate and many teens and parents have GPS tracker apps so parents can keep track of where they are using the location services built in the phone.

 

[deugirtni]

They also said that the PC SW was to either clear him or make him a higher suspect than he is at this time. We have been given explicit permission to sleuth him in accordance with the instructions on page one of this thread. If it was SO CLEAR that he isn't a suspect of some kind, that permission wouldn't have been granted. Moo, JMO, imo etc.

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WS members are allowed to sleuth POIs who've been named in MSM, and that is what RL has become. I believe that is why we are allowed to sleuth him. jmo

 

[layer]

Are people really suggesting the girls weren't heroes? I haven't read every post.

I haven't read all the posts yet either, but I'm not sure how I feel about that label. Regardless of whether or not they were heroes, they were sweet, beautiful innocent young ladies who were loved by their families. At best they were senselessly, unjustly robbed of their futures, and at worst... well I really don't want to think about the worst. :crying:

This bast@rd needs to be caught.

JMHO

 

[jca91180]

It has not been stated how he violated probation. Also getting caught drinking and driving would be a new violation and there is no record for that. I can't find a record for any violation he has committed recently. Even if he just got caught driving on a suspended license there should be a record for that. Maybe it got a ticket in another county. Can LE bust you for driving on a suspended license if they see you while viewing a surveillance video?

It was speculated a few threads back that it appears RL is wearing a gun holster of some sort under his coat in the media interview videos. Carrying a firearm would likely be a probation violation and IMO committing any crime would violate the terms.

I do recall seeing it was his attorney who requested his charges be reduced to a misdemeanor therefore causing his probation to end...this was prior to his arrest and the search warrant. Does anyone remember the specific details of this or recall the link/have screenshot?

All JMO...

 

[fridaybaker]

The latest Gray H video really put's things in perspective in regards to the bridge.
I'm a woman, I was once a 14 year old girl and the girls going there in the first place makes zero sense to me or my two teenage daughters for that matter.
I'm stuck on my original gut instinct that they were meeting someone.
Why would two young teens want to get dropped off by themselves in a fairly remote area to take pics?
I have kind off pushed that piece of info to the side but I can't stop thinking this was just an excuse they told they're parents to go there. I also remember one of the first interviews with LE when they stated that parent's need to pay attention and be aware of whats going on in they're kids lives or something along those lines.
To me this is an obvious read between the lines statement when I watch it again.
Think about where they were dropped off and where they could go from there?
No where but over the bridge and back again, there doesn't seem to be any other off trails or anything so we are to believe they had planned on spending a couple of hours on a trail that takes 20 mins or so to walk? Sorry don't believe it for a minute and I honestly think one of the girls was lured there to meet someone but that someone was not who they were expecting....

I also think BG is wearing a bucket hat not a hood, something like this

Agree completely. The comment by LE about the need to pay attention and be aware of what is going on in their kids' lives is one of the few aspects of the case given to us by LE, in my book, especially in consideration of the facts that we know -that the girls went walking in the woods. If one is simply out walking, why would "what's going on in their lives" matter? They're out walking. Again, key, in my book. Now, it makes complete sense if the girls were out to meet someone or to do something other than "walk in the woods". I can't think of all the possibilities at this moment, but meeting someone would be a likely one, to me.

 

[Confusion]

I have not seen any mention of a hired hand in MSM, so I think that's just speculation.

Are people really suggesting the girls weren't heroes? I haven't read every post. They were definitely heroes. I didn't need LE to tell me that to know it, either. I hope people don't really think the girls weren't. Maybe some posts just come across that way. I know I misunderstand others' posts sometimes. If not, that's a shame because these girls were amazing, IMO.

I did include the MOO because I don't remember who said it, when it was said and if the posts are still here (a lot have been removed in this case), but I do remember at least a few of times reading, something along the lines of, "I don't know why they'd say she was a hero when ***whatever the disagreement was***", I think the main reason is because they believe he was caught accidentally in a video of Abby, and that the record button was accidentally pushed; sometimes when she put it in her pocket, sometimes when the phone fell or was thrown. I know it wasn't necessary for me to say anything because the vast majority don't seem to believe that, but it's bothered me since I first read it and I'm reminded every time I see someone post that he was accidentally caught on video. MOO again.

 

[Elley Mae]

Agree with the narrative that was conveyed to the public, like saying that pilots of planes falling from the sky and how the pilot is a hero for missing a home, yet when one hits a home no one says it was intentional. Jmo

I would like to see what was recorded from the time the girls got there till it ended. Jmo

It was never said what time the "down the hill" was recorded.

Slocum did say that there was talking between the three of them, from the evidence they have. Jmo

O/t a friend was on phone w/ sisters boyfriend while the sisters son was at friends home. While friend was giving sisters boyfriend an ear full the sisters son was recording her,(she didn't know) he then sent it to his sister w/o friends knowledge. I think that is wrong to do to ppl. Had he done that to me i would have had him erase it or i would have pressed charges. Jmo

If I remember correctly they said "criminal activity that we believe is about to occur". I've always found that vagueness curious. Well did it occur (right after) or not? If they had more audio you'd think they would know what happened right after the "down the hill" phrase was spoken. I always interpreted it as meaning that the recording ended right there. IMO it could have just been a few second accidental recording. I know LE called Libby a hero and credited her with having the presence of mind to record her own killer, but IMO that was said more for the benefit of her family and loved ones. Her grandfather later added that they both were heroes because neither left the other girl when they could have split up. Truth is we don't know that. We don't know what Libby was thinking when she hit record (or if it was even intentional), and we don't know if they had a chance to escape. It's a nice narrative, and a beautiful tribute to these sweet girls, but I personally don't think any factual conclusions can be drawn from that. Obviously none of us really know, but IMO the actual attack happened so quickly they didn't stand a chance. MOO.

ETA: I believe Libby was filming Abby on the bridge, and BG just happened to be in the background. I do not for a minute believe that Libby was intentionally capturing a guy she saw as a threat at that point. The "down the hill" audio MAY have been recorded intentionally, but like I said, I believe the recording ended there.

 

[jenthern]

It may also suggest they play an authoritative role in life, where they are comfortable giving commands to kids...whether it be pre-planned or random.

For example, I got my education degree over 15 years ago. I have worked with enough students over the years, that if I come across teens who are starting to beat up another teen (even at the mall), without even thinking about it, I naturally switch into educator mode and begin intervening with strong commands to "Stop it now" or "Leave him alone."


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I 1000% agree with you. I hear an authoritative voice, as well. I have posted that here several times before. I feel he is someone who has experience and confidence in using his voice to get people to do things. Someone who doesn't have to yell, but only has to speak and you move. Teacher, coach, etc. For example, as a mom, I only need to give my son a look and he knows I'm at the end of my rope and he better get it together. What other types of people are able to get people to do something with just the tone of their voice? I think this is the kind of thing we should be talking about. Maybe someone will suggest something no one else thought of and a lightbulb will go off and someone will say, wow, I never thought about that before - so and so is someone I never considered but now that you mention it, he fits. Let me call this tip in. Etc.

 

[HeatherRae]

I've been following this case on/off, so I may have missed this in the beginning. Do we know if any search dogs were used at any point? I have seen how awesome these dogs can be, so I was curious if they were used...at lease on the second day of search.

 

[liltexans]

I haven't read all the posts yet either, but I'm not sure how I feel about that label. Regardless of whether or not they were heroes, they were sweet, beautiful innocent young ladies who were loved by their families. At best they were senselessly, unjustly robbed of their futures, and at worst... well I really don't want to think about the worst. :crying:

This bast@rd needs to be caught.

JMHO

Well, I definitely think they were brave even if some don't like the label of heroes. They faced something I hope I never face. That is bravery at a minimum.

 

[liltexans]

I did include the MOO because I don't remember who said it, when it was said and if the posts are still here (a lot have been removed in this case), but I do remember at least a few of times reading, something along the lines of, "I don't know why they'd say she was a hero when ***whatever the disagreement was***", I think the main reason is because they believe he was caught accidentally in a video of Abby, and that the record button was accidentally pushed; sometimes when she put it in her pocket, sometimes when the phone fell or was thrown. I know it wasn't necessary for me to say anything because the vast majority don't seem to believe that, but it's bothered me since I first read it and I'm reminded every time I see someone post that he was accidentally caught on video. MOO again.

I agree. I definitely believe Libby intentionally recorded the perp. I believe LE's statement about that. I have to admit I have wondered if at some point during the attack if Libby might have thrown her phone since she knew she had been recording him and she wouldn't want him to get his hands on her phone. She and Abby were softball players and I imagine they might have had strong throwing arms.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I 1000% agree with you. I hear an authoritative voice, as well. I have posted that here several times before. I feel he is someone who has experience and confidence in using his voice to get people to do things. Someone who doesn't have to yell, but only has to speak and you move. Teacher, coach, etc. For example, as a mom, I only need to give my son a look and he knows I'm at the end of my rope and he better get it together. What other types of people are able to get people to do something with just the tone of their voice? I think this is the kind of thing we should be talking about. Maybe someone will suggest something no one else thought of and a lightbulb will go off and someone will say, wow, I never thought about that before - so and so is someone I never considered but now that you mention it, he fits. Let me call this tip in. Etc.

Other types of people who may find it second nature to give commands...

Teachers
Coaches
Ex-Military
Judges
Law-enforcement
Prison Guards
Security Personnel

Some parents have a very authoritarian communication style too, even if they don't work in these occupations.


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[Confusion]

I 1000% agree with you. I hear an authoritative voice, as well. I have posted that here several times before. I feel he is someone who has experience and confidence in using his voice to get people to do things. Someone who doesn't have to yell, but only has to speak and you move. Teacher, coach, etc. For example, as a mom, I only need to give my son a look and he knows I'm at the end of my rope and he better get it together. What other types of people are able to get people to do something with just the tone of their voice? I think this is the kind of thing we should be talking about. Maybe someone will suggest something no one else thought of and a lightbulb will go off and someone will say, wow, I never thought about that before - so and so is someone I never considered but now that you mention it, he fits. Let me call this tip in. Etc.

When I was a kid, my uncle had one of those voices. At family get-togethers (usually at my grandmother's house), there were usually 20-30 kids acting pretty wild. Our mothers, some fathers and my grandmother would be telling (often yelling at) us to settle down, but very few listened. My uncle would walk in the room and just say, "Hey!" and everybody would immediately shut up and sit down. As far as I know, he never laid a hand on anyone, and very seldom raised his voice. My grandfather had the same kind of voice, but he died when I was pretty young.