IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #41

[expatCanada]

AMEN... can't be said enough.

At that time, they still thought the girls were just lost; they didn't yet believe there was foul play.

 

[sbaughman]

This is going to sound so snarky, don't mean it to, but it seems the majority here is very skeptical of any involvement by RL, and this surprises me that there is such a strong stance being taken here with so little information. I agree he looks older than the pic, and I have no idea what his role is if any, but I wonder if people are feeling empathetic for a senior. Moo.

I think it's more surprising to me that anyone thinks that BG could be RL (not saying you do and not trying to be snarky [emoji4]). Considering the FBI paid for billboards to be put in 46 different states (can't remember the exact number) and released audio asking for someone to come forward and identify their POI (BG) why do that if BG was RL? They've seen the whole video, and listened to the whole audio, if they even suspected it was RL, there would be no reason for the countrywide campaign to get this guy's picture out. The only reason to do that, IMO, is if they had not been in contact with someone they suspected to be BG at that point in the investigation. They were in contact with RL immediately.

Now, as for him being involved, that is a whole different can of worms. If he is, I suspect it is as an accessory after the fact, or LE suspects he is not being entirely forthcoming. If he lied, I think it was because of his own criminal past, not related to the case. JMO. I definitely am not ready to rule him out entirely.


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[expatCanada]

We have no reference to him at 6:30 pm on the 13th. Nothing. Nil. AFTER the fact (bodies found) ... yes.

On the evening of the 13th if I had returned to my ranch and was asked if my property could be searched...I would say yes and I would be very cautious. I would ask the police to go through my buildings for fear of a perpetrator hiding. RL seemed very calm.

 

[TeaTime]

BG is very familiar with the locale and he was not shy about crossing that bridge. He has had this murder obsession for a while, he may have murdered before and on 2/13 he went hunting in a target rich environment for a possible victim. He was prepared in the event he found suitable prey. The girls represented the perfect opportunity.

 

[Krwiley60]

Welcome to Websleuths.
We have discussed more than one killer abducting the girls and forcing them into a vehicle on the road and taking them to another location, perhaps another town or perhaps somewhere nearby they knew where they would be protected and bringing their bodies back later. That's is my theory. I do not believe one or 2 people forced them to walk down the bluff and across the woods and down the bank into the creek and across and back up. Why would they if they already had them on the road, right? But not a car, I'm thinking a van or larger SUV at least. I don't think someone was just scoping out for any young female though but that's a valid theory, especially with 2 RSO living together nearby. I have wondered when they were brought back, probably as you suggested in the wee hours.
In the future when you post it is best not to reference other blogs and forums as the source of your information. Even though its locals its still rumors technically. You can say that you think or believe as we all can share our theory.

I would think the audio from phone would tell LE if they were taken in another vehicle. I believe there are 2 crime scenes but both in the area they were found.


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[AmateurAnalyst73]

Someone who has spent a lot of time outdoors anywhere in the region could potentially assess the area/terrain fairly quickly once off the bridge, IMO. I'm again reminded of the relative I mentioned in my recent reply, as while he was wanted in his homestate for a series of crimes, he fled to the an area in the southwest that he had only been to once as a teenager, but was able to hideout successfully in the wilderness until winter weather drove him down from the mountains.I know several hunters who also talk about how once you've spent enough time outdoors, you get a sense of the lay of the land in new places very quickly, such as nearby waterways, animal paths, beds, depth of streams, etc.I, too, believe that the simplest explanation is this is someone who is familiar with this particular are, but I do believe any avid outdoorsman, especially older/more experienced, would be able to assess the area on the fly. JMO

I'd be inclined to agree if the crime scene was In one spot and relatively easy to reach. But in this case, we had multiple crime scenes (bridge where the girls were possibly abducted, the walk down to the actual murder scene). The crime scene(s) was extensive and would require detailed knowledge about the area. Not something an outsider who is in town for a short time would know. I'm basing this just from what I have read on this case. This was such a high risk crime, it seems the odds of success were more favorable to someone who lived in that area or grew up there and who knew the people and the terrain. Just my gut.

The fact that two girls were murdered speaks to someone who is older and more experienced. He may have done time in prison but may not have his DNA in the national database. He may have lived overseas for a stretch of time.

 

[Krwiley60]

Just my opinion. In the IE pic it appears, to me, his hand is poised like he is concentrating on trying not putting it in his pocket. Moo.

Definitely not the same person.


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[expatCanada]

You're not snarky. I just don't understand how anyone could think it's him. Has nothing to do with "grandpa" thing. He just doesn't "fit". JMO

This is going to sound so snarky, don't mean it to, but it seems the majority here is very skeptical of any involvement by RL, and this surprises me that there is such a strong stance being taken here with so little information. I agree he looks older than the pic, and I have no idea what his role is if any, but I wonder if people are feeling empathetic for a senior. Moo.

ETA: I agree this is awful for him if he has no knowledge or involvement.

 

[No it's not]

The more I read here, the more I am convinced that the video image will not be useful in court. Just too, too poor an indentifier. Jmo

Perhaps that's why the billboards went up..? Beyond reasonable doubt? Is that even possible??

-Nin

 

[LondonSW]

ALL MOO---
Has anyone considered a link to the murders attributed to Larry DeWayne Hall? He lived a mere 50 miles away.

Although he is now in prison and couldn't have done this one, it's been suggested perhaps he did not act alone or that some of the murders were by another SK during the same time. Could Abby and Libby's be connected to someone who participated with LDH or another SK's work starting back then?

He/they stalked rural areas, small towns while on trips to war reenactments or car shows, etc. There were young girls biking or walking together who told their parents about him and got the license plate number to link him. He admitted to as many as 39 victims on his own but is known for recanting. In one interview he said he was tired of covering up for someone.

I did find these maps (no idea who made them) interesting- https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...l=en_US&ll=40.0483744,-86.46916769999996&z=11
And http://www.zeemaps.com/view?group=609888&x=-87.399274&y=39.469599&z=10
If considering a SK the maps and lists could be an beginning to the madness and I'm curious if there are maps of other more recent murders that could be added on such as Lyric and Elizabeth.

For details life events with possible victims attributed to him and further down details on his method, etc go here or view the video- http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc 405/serial killers/Hall, Larry DeWayne.pdf
There is info such as method of killing was stabbing/strangling using knife/rope/belts. Interestingly his method of subduing was starting fluid which has ether in it to render a victim helpless. Some of his victims attributed to him were not hidden while others were. There are many details and it boggles my mind knowing I lived so close to this even attending the same vocational school and other events where he probably crossed my path.
video here- https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2oxd3m_the-devil-you-know-civil-war-serial-killer_school

I found very little on him here on WS http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?247928-IN-WI-LARRY-DEWAYNE-HALL-1980-s-90-s

I am glad that you brought this up and shared this information. He doesn't fit, of course for Abby and Libby. However, there are some cold cases on here that might match up. His accomplices might be involved too, good thinking.



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[expatCanada]

I so agree.

Definitely not the same person.


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[Madhom]

Nothing would shock or surprise me about this case. But...I no longer believe RL had anything to do with it. I think, IMO, BG came from the south, and never went more than half way out that bridge.

And for general interest, I will note... Indiana Packers Corp is barely 1.5 miles from the Bridge. In fact, it is a 300 yard walk through a field from IPC to Highway N625W. Also note, N625W runs from right near IPC, and is the very road that runs under the Monon High Bridge. IMO MOO JMO

 

[AmateurAnalyst73]

This theory may be correct, but why risk bringing them back to the vicinity? If they were taken to another location, why not leave them there, or maybe take them to an entirely different location instead of risking being seen when they returned them to the general vicinity of where they were abducted?

Welcome to Websleuths.
We have discussed more than one killer abducting the girls and forcing them into a vehicle on the road and taking them to another location, perhaps another town or perhaps somewhere nearby they knew where they would be protected and bringing their bodies back later. That's is my theory. I do not believe one or 2 people forced them to walk down the bluff and across the woods and down the bank into the creek and across and back up. Why would they if they already had them on the road, right? But not a car, I'm thinking a van or larger SUV at least. I don't think someone was just scoping out for any young female though but that's a valid theory, especially with 2 RSO living together nearby. I have wondered when they were brought back, probably as you suggested in the wee hours.
In the future when you post it is best not to reference other blogs and forums as the source of your information. Even though its locals its still rumors technically. You can say that you think or believe as we all can share our theory.

 

[margarita25]

Well for whatever reason IMO LE's hinky meters are going off on RL. Not sure why. Jmo.

 

[jenthern]

I believe that what set the girls' alarms off about BG was this: the first time they saw him, he was walking TOWARD them from the Southern end of the bridge. He walked past them, headed north. Perhaps they had an uneasy feeling as he passed. He continued past them maybe 100', making sure no one was approaching the bridge from the north side, turned and started moving quickly at the girls. They noticed his turn and were immediately on edge. IMO, BG was never at the northern end of the bridge.

That's actually a very plausible scenario! One of the pieces that puzzled me is how he was nowhere in sight when the picture of Abby was taken and then bam, he's on top of them. In your scenario, that would be why we didn't see him at all in the Abby picture. (Yes, I do realize he could have also just quickly come across the bridge from the north side, but this seems more realistic to me.) Thanks for sharing!

 

[KyMom]

Yes, most people overestimate the deadliness of handguns. There's an online video by an anesthesiologist in which he reports five out of six people survive being shot with a handgun, and many people are able to run and/or fight even after being shot multiple times. So your best chance in that situation may be to ignore the gun and attack the perp's eyes, throat, groin, knees, etc. Rifle rounds, of course, are much more deadly.

In the case with me walking in on my cousin getting robbed, initially I had just stood there..basically with brain-freeze, not believing what I was seeing. However, once my brain did kick in and my feet got the message I ran, in a zig-zag pattern, down a hallway & out the backdoor, the police station was just behind her work. The reason I ran zig-zag is because as I started to run I didn't know if he would come behind me and try to shoot. So it just suddenly popped in my mind that if I ran that way it would be hard to get a good aim on me. Thankfully, it turned out he took off out the front door, but I didn't look back to see.

Btw, It wasn't funny at the time and not that it really is now, but when he took off my cousin stepped out a side door in the hallway to see where I went and caught a glimpse of me zig-zagging out the back door..she always gets a chuckle when she thinks about that.

Sorry if I went O/T a bit. my point was about running from someone w/a gun.

ETA: Just realized my point may not even apply to your post because I wasn't shot when I was running. :redface:

 

[Daae]

Just curious do any fellow sleuthers recall a case where a perp killed two seemingly random teenage girls and was in the age range of the PO? Curious bc I have personally never heard of a crime like that but I know there are some here that have followed many more cases than I have. thx in advance

I personally knew an 84 yr old who murdered his grandson 23 and son 59. Our family was quite close to the 23 year old and we were in shock.

 

[ninij9]

No! There was a hearing and the judge denied the lawyer's request for release. That was when the new court date was set. But no, he is still wearing the orange suit.:jail:

Sorry, that was mean. It is very late for me and I am getting punchy!fftobed:

Lol, that's what I thought. I came out from my break and saw a post stating he was out and I was like Whaaat did I miss.

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[jenthern]

Just curious do any fellow sleuthers recall a case where a perp killed two seemingly random teenage girls and was in the age range of the PO? Curious bc I have personally never heard of a crime like that but I know there are some here that have followed many more cases than I have. thx in advance

Yes, the case of Kathlynn Shepard. She and her friend were kidnapped and she was killed. The friend managed to escape, but I am certain she would have been killed as well, had she not.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kathlyn...er-idd-as-abducted-iowa-teen-authorities-say/

 

[margarita25]

(When I text now BG comes up in autocorrect)