IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #41

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LE said the BG is middle aged. Maybe they are incorrect in that due to viewing distorted images, but that's what we have from LE.

Everyone's opinion welcome, even mine I hope. I don't see anything to convince me that it's even a possibility that RL is BG. There is of course some distortion in that image, but to me, it looks pretty danged good, considering I believe it's from a long distance (jmo).

i)the build is completely different, some have mentioned RL's legs and hips being bulkier, but I believe he is bulkier everywhere

ii)his age; police have estimated BG's age to be what was it, 45ish? That is also how he appears to me as well. That is a good 30 years younger than RL, and imo, this can be seen in the face. The jowls. RL definitely has signs of aging.

iii)the gaits, as evidenced by the height the knees come up during walking, to me look completely different. (BG's knee seems to come up higher than RL's). Not only that, but when we view RL walking, as we have seen on camera a few times now, he is definitely spry and in great shape for his age, but he still doesn't have the gait of a 45 or 50 year old man, I can see him not being quite as steady and sure as a much younger man.

iv)obviously all of the clothing is different. Although the 2 may be wearing navy blue jackets, they are definitely not the same jackets.

It seems like maybe 77 isn't *that* old, but, when you think that the man is nearly EIGHTY, that is danged OLD! I hope I live to be that old! It just doesn't seem right, imho!!

When RL repeated for the reporter the words, 'down the hill', he has a definite accent.. this is what it sounds like to me, who doesn't have that accent around where I live, so it is definitely noticeable to me.. 'down the heeeoooww' (i'm exaggerating the 'oow', I'm sure he says 'hill', I'm just trying to write it like it 'sounds' to *me*). The voices are different, the gruffness, raspiness, etc. How many guys on whose property the dead bodies were found, would do that, on the news, just because some reporter asked them to repeat it? Talk about setting yourself up? It's only 3 words, and really, how different can one make them sound? Imo, no matter how he said it, people could construe it to sound like what they wanted. I'd hope the guy on the recording wouldn't offer himself up on a platter on television news like that when the stakes are so high (death penalty)?

My serious guess is that RL told police a lie to protect himself from prosecution because he was probably doing something like blatantly disregarding the conditions of his probation, for which, by the sounds of it, he may have been warned more than once before. He may very well NOT have been home, but said that he was buying fish, when in fact he was seen at a bar drinking, and then he'd already told police he had driven home, etc.. big mess, caught in a lie (about the driving perhaps).. LE may have heard from tips that he was seen drinking in a bar late that afternoon.. wouldn't surprise me at all.. and then LE is faced with, hmm, the guy lied, and he also broke his probation order, so let's put him in the slammer, teach him a lesson, since under the circumstances, it was terrible to tell that lie to save himself. That also gives LE time to figure this out, check him out, - they thought he had an alibi, and now that's out the window. They want to rule him out, or find evidence to pursue him further, neither of which seems to be happening yet. Did I hear something about a court date in early April? Could that be when the test results are expected to be back? (Say from forensically searching his truck for any hairs or fibers from the girls?)

If RL *could* have been released from jail, it's possible that his lawyer, or himself, didn't want him released until the evidence comes in to also clear him of this unrelated crime, so that he doesn't get brutalized because of all the people who now think he is responsible for this crime?

All moo!
 
Really hoping LE makes a statement about RL soon, one way or the other. We probably would not even know his name if not for the location of the girls' bodies, as we do not know the names (or past crimes) of other homeowners they have searched. LE said they have done several other searches, I believe, surely someone has a quote. Jmo

My understanding is that police clearly stated on March 17 that the property owner is not a suspect. They also stated that 12 search warrants have been served. Why hasn't the media chased down the other eleven people and plastered their names all over the internet? Was it too difficult for them to get the information, or where they threatened with lawsuits if they dared post that information?

"Slocum added that Logan has not been charged in connection with the deaths of 14-year-old Libby German and 13-year-old Abby Williams.

Police are stressing that Logan is not a suspect in the case.
...
About a dozen search warrants have been served in the case, Slocum said."

March 17, 2017
http://wishtv.com/2017/03/17/search-underway-of-home-property-of-man-where-delphi-teens-were-found/
 
Actually I read that the motion to extend it past the one year (2014) was denied. Petitioner was told to refile not because there was no cause, but something to do with the jurisdiction procedure.

Apparently the Protrctive Order was in effect for one year, but an extension was not requested within the proper time limit. you are correct, the motion to extend was denied. I wonder if she ever requested PO again.
 
My understanding is that police clearly stated on March 17 that the property owner is not a suspect. They also stated that 12 search warrants have been served. Why hasn't the media chased down the other eleven people and plastered their names all over the internet? Was it too difficult for them to get the information, or where they threatened with lawsuits if they dared post that information?

"Slocum added that Logan has not been charged in connection with the deaths of 14-year-old Libby German and 13-year-old Abby Williams.

Police are stressing that Logan is not a suspect in the case.
...
About a dozen search warrants have been served in the case, Slocum said."

March 17, 2017
http://wishtv.com/2017/03/17/search-underway-of-home-property-of-man-where-delphi-teens-were-found/

I would guess because the only one we are aware of is mr Logan because of his media interviews? Not sure. Imo.


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My understanding is that police clearly stated on March 17 that the property owner is not a suspect. They also stated that 12 search warrants have been served. Why hasn't the media chased down the other eleven people and plastered their names all over the internet? Was it too difficult for them to get the information, or where they threatened with lawsuits if they dared post that information?

"Slocum added that Logan has not been charged in connection with the deaths of 14-year-old Libby German and 13-year-old Abby Williams.

Police are stressing that Logan is not a suspect in the case.
...
About a dozen search warrants have been served in the case, Slocum said."

March 17, 2017
http://wishtv.com/2017/03/17/search-underway-of-home-property-of-man-where-delphi-teens-were-found/

Also from Sgt Slocum's interview (sourced from media thread)


Regarding Social Media:

“But it's a dangerous game and I know the public on social media and other sites have been naming suspects and that's a dangerous game because we haven't named a suspect other than that person in the picture but they're putting a photograph of their neighbor next to the picture saying hey this is him and that's dangerous and that's just not fair to anyone. So I ask people to be responsible on the social media sites."

"The extreme attention this case has received has created more social media postings and things like that. At three separate occasions we've either served a search warrant or we just went to talk to someone, whether they were a witness or not and the public just overreacted, saying that we had arrested someone and it gets to the point where now the media is saying is this true and on three separate occasions I had to send out repeated text messages from myself, saying no, no, no, please quit jumping to conclusions, we'll make an announcement if we do arrest. We're not hiding anything."
 
I apologize but I can't link it because when I do it just goes to the login page. I did post a screen shot of the court docket a few pages back since I can't link it.


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No worry .... I finally got caught up to this point and have figured out where you were coming from. It looks like we could get access if we signed up to log in at Odyssey. Thanks for the info. Any idea if this was a former wife?
 
From Rich Van Wyk's Twitter back on Feb 14; his pic gives me feelings of dread when I enlarge it.
I wonder if BG had binoculars.

The caption was a view of the Monon High Bridge from the crime scene
https://twitter.com/VanwykWTHR

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Thanks.

Maybe one of our attorneys can answer if "issued" is the same as "served".

I'm not an attorney...but did work in the legal field...Issued is not the same as served, afaik.

I can draft a Summons or other document, I submit to the Court Clerk, she then 'issues' it, file stamps it and sends it back to me.
I then have to certify mail or have a person serve that Summons to the party physically.

Same applies for a Protective Order, I can draft one for the attorney, he can present it to the Judge, the Judge can sign it, it is now considered 'issued', it gets file stamped. Again has to be personally served or certified mailed.

There is (in our state) an Affidavit of Service, a Return of Service or the like we, or the person doing service, fill out, has to be notarized and filed with the Court proving service.
 
No worry .... I finally got caught up to this point and have figured out where you were coming from. It looks like we could get access if we signed up to log in at Odyssey. Thanks for the info. Any idea if this was a former wife?

I'm not sure. I just happened to be sleuthing him and came across it. I would think if it was a wife we would have seen the marriage dissolution for her on the court records but we don't so maybe not? All moo.


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I'm ot an attorney...but did work in the legal field...Issued is not the same as served, afaik.

This is correct. Issued does not mean served.

The same relation to writing a check and cashing a check. I can write a check for payment, but it's not cashed.
 
Everyone's opinion welcome, even mine I hope. I don't see anything to convince me that it's even a possibility that RL is BG. There is of course some distortion in that image, but to me, it looks pretty danged good, considering I believe it's from a long distance (jmo).

i)the build is completely different, some have mentioned RL's legs and hips being bulkier, but I believe he is bulkier everywhere

ii)his age; police have estimated BG's age to be what was it, 45ish? That is also how he appears to me as well. That is a good 30 years younger than RL, and imo, this can be seen in the face. The jowls. RL definitely has signs of aging.

iii)the gaits, as evidenced by the height the knees come up during walking, to me look completely different. (BG's knee seems to come up higher than RL's). Not only that, but when we view RL walking, as we have seen on camera a few times now, he is definitely spry and in great shape for his age, but he still doesn't have the gait of a 45 or 50 year old man, I can see him not being quite as steady and sure as a much younger man.

iv)obviously all of the clothing is different. Although the 2 may be wearing navy blue jackets, they are definitely not the same jackets.

It seems like maybe 77 isn't *that* old, but, when you think that the man is nearly EIGHTY, that is danged OLD! I hope I live to be that old! It just doesn't seem right, imho!!

When RL repeated for the reporter the words, 'down the hill', he has a definite accent.. this is what it sounds like to me, who doesn't have that accent around where I live, so it is definitely noticeable to me.. 'down the heeeoooww' (i'm exaggerating the 'oow', I'm sure he says 'hill', I'm just trying to write it like it 'sounds' to *me*). The voices are different, the gruffness, raspiness, etc. How many guys on whose property the dead bodies were found, would do that, on the news, just because some reporter asked them to repeat it? Talk about setting yourself up? It's only 3 words, and really, how different can one make them sound? Imo, no matter how he said it, people could construe it to sound like what they wanted. I'd hope the guy on the recording wouldn't offer himself up on a platter on television news like that when the stakes are so high (death penalty)?

My serious guess is that RL told police a lie to protect himself from prosecution because he was probably doing something like blatantly disregarding the conditions of his probation, for which, by the sounds of it, he may have been warned more than once before. He may very well NOT have been home, but said that he was buying fish, when in fact he was seen at a bar drinking, and then he'd already told police he had driven home, etc.. big mess, caught in a lie (about the driving perhaps).. LE may have heard from tips that he was seen drinking in a bar late that afternoon.. wouldn't surprise me at all.. and then LE is faced with, hmm, the guy lied, and he also broke his probation order, so let's put him in the slammer, teach him a lesson, since under the circumstances, it was terrible to tell that lie to save himself. That also gives LE time to figure this out, check him out, - they thought he had an alibi, and now that's out the window. They want to rule him out, or find evidence to pursue him further, neither of which seems to be happening yet. Did I hear something about a court date in early April? Could that be when the test results are expected to be back? (Say from forensically searching his truck for any hairs or fibers from the girls?)

If RL *could* have been released from jail, it's possible that his lawyer, or himself, didn't want him released until the evidence comes in to also clear him of this unrelated crime, so that he doesn't get brutalized because of all the people who now think he is responsible for this crime?

All moo!

Great post! I agree. RL's next court date is 3:00 pm local time on Monday, April 3rd. He is supposed to have an evidentiary hearing at that time.
 
I'm not an attorney...but did work in the legal field...Issued is not the same as served, afaik.

I can draft a Summons or other document, I submit to the Court Clerk, she then 'issues' it, file stamps it and sends it back to me.
I then have to certify mail or have a person serve that Summons to the party physically.

Same applies for a Protective Order, I can draft one for the attorney, he can present it to the Judge, the Judge can sign it, it is now considered 'issued', it gets file stamped. Again has to be personally served or certified mailed.

There is (in our state) an Affidavit of Service, a Return of Service or the like we, or the person doing service, fill out, has to be notarized and filed with the Court proving service.

This is correct. Issued does not mean served.

The same relation to writing a check and cashing a check. I can write a check for payment, but it's not cashed.

What you both are saying makes perfect sense, but I can't figure out how to reconcile it with the court record. It sounds like the petitioner and the respondent (RL) were both present at the time the order was issued, so what does it mean that the order was not served? Did it not need to be served because he was present when it was issued?
 
I think there was an order of protection in place in 2013, for 1 year. It expired in 2014, and then the person who filed it wanted to extend it, but did not file again in the proper time frame, so it was denied. My take is yes, there was an order of protection got 1 year! It was not granted a renewal.
 
Everyone's opinion welcome, even mine I hope. I don't see anything to convince me that it's even a possibility that RL is BG. There is of course some distortion in that image, but to me, it looks pretty danged good, considering I believe it's from a long distance (jmo).

i)the build is completely different, some have mentioned RL's legs and hips being bulkier, but I believe he is bulkier everywhere

ii)his age; police have estimated BG's age to be what was it, 45ish? That is also how he appears to me as well. That is a good 30 years younger than RL, and imo, this can be seen in the face. The jowls. RL definitely has signs of aging.

iii)the gaits, as evidenced by the height the knees come up during walking, to me look completely different. (BG's knee seems to come up higher than RL's). Not only that, but when we view RL walking, as we have seen on camera a few times now, he is definitely spry and in great shape for his age, but he still doesn't have the gait of a 45 or 50 year old man, I can see him not being quite as steady and sure as a much younger man.

iv)obviously all of the clothing is different. Although the 2 may be wearing navy blue jackets, they are definitely not the same jackets.

It seems like maybe 77 isn't *that* old, but, when you think that the man is nearly EIGHTY, that is danged OLD! I hope I live to be that old! It just doesn't seem right, imho!!

When RL repeated for the reporter the words, 'down the hill', he has a definite accent.. this is what it sounds like to me, who doesn't have that accent around where I live, so it is definitely noticeable to me.. 'down the heeeoooww' (i'm exaggerating the 'oow', I'm sure he says 'hill', I'm just trying to write it like it 'sounds' to *me*). The voices are different, the gruffness, raspiness, etc. How many guys on whose property the dead bodies were found, would do that, on the news, just because some reporter asked them to repeat it? Talk about setting yourself up? It's only 3 words, and really, how different can one make them sound? Imo, no matter how he said it, people could construe it to sound like what they wanted. I'd hope the guy on the recording wouldn't offer himself up on a platter on television news like that when the stakes are so high (death penalty)?

My serious guess is that RL told police a lie to protect himself from prosecution because he was probably doing something like blatantly disregarding the conditions of his probation, for which, by the sounds of it, he may have been warned more than once before. He may very well NOT have been home, but said that he was buying fish, when in fact he was seen at a bar drinking, and then he'd already told police he had driven home, etc.. big mess, caught in a lie (about the driving perhaps).. LE may have heard from tips that he was seen drinking in a bar late that afternoon.. wouldn't surprise me at all.. and then LE is faced with, hmm, the guy lied, and he also broke his probation order, so let's put him in the slammer, teach him a lesson, since under the circumstances, it was terrible to tell that lie to save himself. That also gives LE time to figure this out, check him out, - they thought he had an alibi, and now that's out the window. They want to rule him out, or find evidence to pursue him further, neither of which seems to be happening yet. Did I hear something about a court date in early April? Could that be when the test results are expected to be back? (Say from forensically searching his truck for any hairs or fibers from the girls?)

If RL *could* have been released from jail, it's possible that his lawyer, or himself, didn't want him released until the evidence comes in to also clear him of this unrelated crime, so that he doesn't get brutalized because of all the people who now think he is responsible for this crime?

All moo!
ITA his voice is different to BG IMO too. BG sounds very calm and methodical to me when he says "down the hill" also he doesn't sound like he's out of it on drugs IMO. Just very precise and calm cool and collected. I would be totally taken back if it does turn out to be R.L. I just can't see it though. MOO [emoji202]

💘 💘Love always wins 💘 💘
 
IMO LE has their man.
IMO his cell phone pings didn't match the time he said he was somewhere when all this was going down.
We have know idea what was given to LE, as an alibi, to the time he went somewhere, but I bet his cell phone pings will say differently.
We also have no idea as to how many tips have come from different people that suspect the same person. Not just that they they suspect him but why. In other words not just a gut feeling.
IMO there isn't one thing that that has made LE think they have the right man but a totality of things that have made a puzzle come together.
IMO there is one perp, he is BG and he is already in custody.
Thing is though his voice is completely different to 'down the hill' IMO

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Hello everyone. I'm new to WS. I've been following the case on WS since it happened, but mostly I've been lurking since I don't have as much sleuthing experience as you guys. If the image is blurry because it came from the video (as Sgt. Slocum stated), it seems some parts of the video would contain clearer images of BG. It just doesn't make sense to me.
 
Every time I read someone's post who thinks it's possible Libby accidently captured BG on video or that she was just filming and later it turned bad I am reminded of this post from many threads ago. It took me forever to find it but I think it describes best how LE understands the video.
"After reviewing evidence, Leazenby says it appears the girls initially took pictures for fun but later became uncomfortable and recorded the video as a way of ensuring evidence."
That is not an accidental video.
That quote is interesting. I always wondered if a girl was injured at time of first video and only one recorded. however '"Girls" suggests both were together at video point Wish they had run.

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