IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #48

[SomeoneElse333]

Remember, that the kidnapping victims who have been found years later were controlled by fear and threats. (Example Shasta Groene, Steven Stayner, Scott Hornbeck, Jaycee Dugard) This is probably all it took to make the girls move to a location where the perpetrator(s) commited this crime,

IMO and MOO of course,

RSBM

I think loyalty played a role. I'm not sure when and how, but I have to wonder if the murderer took advantage of each girl's hesitation to think for self and to instead act with the other in mind, particularly if one of the girls perhaps took on a more protective role over the other. It breaks my heart.

MOO

 

[Lilowlet]

No apologies needed. I only have a little knowledge in terms of what occurs behind agency doors. There's a lot of "chatter that goes on both in jails and the judicial halls between agency and legal or even legal to legal, etc, etc. None of which breaches attorney-client relationship. Small talk, questions about filings, paperwork and so on. I'm guessing if LE had/has further suspicions of RL at any time his attorney was well aware! I'm further guessing with this knowledge the attorney would advise RL to either speak or "simply" hold his silence considering all the possible outcomes. I like you am not calling out RL as the BG, but I am very speculative of some involvement from him or hindrance by him. I belong to the small minority here on WS that doesn't believe you get a chance card because you're receiving social security. Age has no boundaries....nor should it!

Thanks! And I agree.. I am speculative as well, I think I just wanna know what he knows if anything, be it helped a stranger not realizing things or what not. But yes my father is is in his 60s and cares for all five of his grandbabies every Friday. One is two very rambunctious. So age doesn't play a part for me either. But I do agree with what I believe it was what bemuse said once ( sorry if it's someone else's comment) " unless he gained a sympathy belly that's not BG" thanks for responding!

 

[Bemused]

Police did collect evidence of the immediate crime scene, the abduction site, and the river.

Are you making an assumption they found the phone and viewed the video at the CS? IMO they had to have the phone analyzed at the crime lab if they found it, or they had to deal with a warrant to the cellphone provider.

 

[Hatfield]

“At this point he is still involved in the investigation but I would not attach the label suspect to him.” Leazenby said (referring to RL) SBM

http://www.wthr.com/article/tips-con...-double-murder

This is interesting statement from LE.

If he is not a suspect but he is still involved in the investigation then what does that leave us with.

Witness maybe? or
Some sort of connection to the actual perp whether he initially knew it or not?

JMO
Ive often wondered if the perp may have been a friend or relative of someone living close by where they were found.
There are a few possibilities like a relative who was visiting or maybe a rent paying tenant even or maybe even a neighbors relative or along those lines.

If it was someone like that then I think the plan the perp had was to hide the bodies like burying them and they ran out of time as the searchers showed up much quicker than they expected.

A theory like that could account for some of the actions and statements by the person that has been arrested. They may not want to be overly cooperative if the person that actually did the crime was someone known to them by some sort of connection.

 

[tre]

Grayhuze did say that in an early video (placed them on a platform) but his latest video made after new evidence was acquired places them off the bridge on the south east end.

Perhaps both girls were off the bridge, something about BG put them on alert, Libby videotapes. They intend to go back across the bridge the way they came once BG gets off bridge and moves away, but he ushers them "down the hill"?

 

[asyousay]

This is interesting statement from LE.

If he is not a suspect but he is still involved in the investigation then what does that leave us with.

Witness maybe? or
Some sort of connection to the actual perp whether he initially knew it or not?

JMO
Ive often wondered if the perp may have been a friend or relative of someone living close by where they were found.
There are a few possibilities like a relative who was visiting or maybe a rent paying tenant even or maybe even a neighbors relative or along those lines.

If it was someone like that then I think the plan the perp had was to hide the bodies like burying them and they ran out of time as the searchers showed up much quicker than they expected.

A theory like that could account for some of the actions and statements by the person that has been arrested. They may not want to be overly cooperative if the person that actually did the crime was someone known to them by some sort of connection.

The bodies were on his land so it makes sense he is still involved but the police don't consider him a suspect.

 

[Lilowlet]

IMO, they did not make a run for his house.

It's also IMO the PC SW served on RL's property on the 17th of March there was media there because LE alerted them there'd be a search. I can only think of one reason that makes sense to me why LE would tip off the press. I'm highly suspicious of everything from the similarities in BG and RL's carriage and shape, the interviews, how LE has acted wrt him and the audio clip because it sounds like him to me.

IMO

The voice maybe,( sorry I personally quoted you saying sympathy belly about BG I wasn't positive ! ) But I just don't see it on the photos I look at that belly and I just say no to myself but hey! I'm a person who didn't recognize her own baby picture. I do think he acted suspicious. Not sure if it was in regards to his own fear over violations or not I'm still undecided. Imo

 

[Wsimm]

OT
Im an unofficial expert at scoping out the neighborhood happenings using binoculars from inside my house.

Here are some valuable tips to help those that are also in the profession
:websleuther:

TIP 1:
It helps to be
:drink:
because that way you get overly paranoid at the slightest noises outside.

TIP 2:
When using binoculars always stand back about 5 feet from your window so that you cannot be seen from anyone outside. If you stand too close to your window then people outside can actually see you standing there near your window looking out with binoculars. LOL
If you stand back aways from your window then it becomes much harder for anyone to make out that you are back there looking out.
Plus, the extra five feet is not needed since you have binoculars

TIP 3
This is the most important tip.
When using binoculars at night then be sure to turn off all your lights in the room you are in. Otherwise you will stand out like a sore thumb to the people outside. If you have it dark in the room you are in then you can still see out just fine and nobody from the outside can tell you are in your room looking out with binoculars.
Even when it is not dark out then still make sure your room does not have any lights on.

TIP 4:
If you have a screened window those are all the better to stand behind when looking outside with binoculars. The screening causes it to look dark inside your house to anyone who is outside looking back towards your screened in window.
Plus the screening does not impede your viewing much at all.

TIP 5
Make sure you are not standing in front of anything white like a refrigerator or something that will make you stand out. You dont want your silhouette to contrast with anything behind it. It is best to have a dark colored wall behind you.

TIP 6
Stay still
If you do have to move then move very slowly. You dont want to make any sudden movements as you can be spotted more easily if you are moving around.

GOOD LUCK and if you do find that someone on the outside notices you looking out your window then do what I do. Freak out and run away from your window. :floorlaugh:

Lol....way too funny! Thank you

 

[Mercedes]

WHO Is BG???

:drink: :needdrink:

 

[coastal]

Can it be used on an iPad? Thx.

I don't know, but probably. Just check the " UBB " box, instead of the " URL" box - and you should be able to copy any image to a board or forum and have it show up right.

I hope!

 

[Jethro4WS]

Jethro, I would like your thoughts.

Another poster mentions that if there were two perps that LE would know that for sure as there would most likely be two voices at some point in the audio/video. Your theory is that the reason the girls didn't run with BG still so far away was because the second guy came up from behind. So, in your opinion, how would you reconcile a missing voice if there were two?

LE has only released a small portion of the audio. So we don't know what else has been recorded. I believe there are at least two perpetrators. Therefore, I expect there is audio evidence of at least two perpetrators. All of the perpetrators would know that if they had said anything around the time (some period before or after) "down the hill" was spoken that there is the possibility that LE has that. That might make the perpetrators wary of each other. The audio could be inaudible to the point that all that can be determined is that it is not the girls and likely not the person that said "down the hill". It could be perfectly clear. All I know is that LE has been teasing about whether they believe there is more than one person involved or not. And like I said, if there is more than one involved I expect that there is audio evidence of more than one person.

 

[Yvettea]

Perhaps both girls were off the bridge, something about BG put them on alert, Libby videotapes. They intend to go back across the bridge the way they came once BG gets off bridge and moves away, but he ushers them "down the hill"?

Yes, I guess I was trying to make the point Abby and Libby were not alarmed and saw no need to flee or they were already injured and unable to flee.

 

[Bemused]

This is interesting statement from LE.

If he is not a suspect but he is still involved in the investigation then what does that leave us with.

Witness maybe? or
Some sort of connection to the actual perp whether he initially knew it or not?

JMO
Ive often wondered if the perp may have been a friend or relative of someone living close by where they were found.
There are a few possibilities like a relative who was visiting or maybe a rent paying tenant even or maybe even a neighbors relative or along those lines.

If it was someone like that then I think the plan the perp had was to hide the bodies like burying them and they ran out of time as the searchers showed up much quicker than they expected.

A theory like that could account for some of the actions and statements by the person that has been arrested. They may not want to be overly cooperative if the person that actually did the crime was someone known to them by some sort of connection.

If RL is actually a suspect in the eyes of LE, why would they publicly name him until they're ready to arrest. If he was a suspect from the jump, I'd bet he was under surveillance. Since they popped him on a PV, which I believe is a result of interviews with LE regarding his alibi on Feb 13th and I also believe he may have lied to LE re said alibis, he was in jail so they don't have to jump the gun until they're ready to pull the trigger on an arrest.

IMO

 

[Wsimm]

IMO, they did not make a run for his house.

It's also IMO the PC SW served on RL's property on the 17th of March there was media there because LE alerted them there'd be a search. I can only think of one reason that makes sense to me why LE would tip off the press. I'm highly suspicious of everything from the similarities in BG and RL's carriage and shape, the interviews, how LE has acted wrt him and the audio clip because it sounds like him to me.

IMO

Yes, the media's knowledge of SW and their presence spoke volumes....

 

[sumzero]

I honestly believe that the SW was served because they discovered he lied to them and a lie on the day of the murders, along with the bodies being found on his property, provided probable cause. The rest is details.

And my guess is that the reason he's not ruled out is simply because if it's correct that they really don't know who did this (I think that's the case), they're not officially ruling anyone out.

As for the demeanor of LE in the video up thread, he struck me as pained by the fact that they have not solved this and BG is still loose somewhere. I didn't see much more in his expression than battle fatigue and perhaps some low morale, which I'm sure they all feel, at least at times. I think the crime scene was disturbing not merely because they found children from their community, but because of the nature of the crime.

I go back to what LE said in the early stages - "who's next?" (I think that's how it was worded). That says a lot and points away from RL. I really don't think his type of lie, though they had to pursue a search, equals a connection to the type if crime scene they encountered. So, the demeanor we see in LE is perhaps also their pattern of not really saying anything of substance in public.

I had a son in naval special warfare and they don't talk about anything because once you say this, it leads to a question about that, and if you answer even vaguely, that leads to a question about this, and before it's done, you've provided tidbits that may not give up anything vital, but they feed speculation and rumor and interpretation of what people want to find in your answer. So you get emails that say, "Goin' on a trip", then nothing for three months, then an email that says "Back from my trip", and you know it's time to send cookies again. As they say in the Navy, "those who are talking don't know, and those who know aren't talking."

I think LE is coming from exactly that place in this case. I don't believe that their snippets and on camera language tell us much of anything. JMO

One of the most level-headed posts I've read in these 48 threads. Most of what I've read in these threads is pure speculation, usually with no evidence to support it. I'm grateful to find the oasis of sanity provided by your post. ;o)

 

[Jethro4WS]

I thought that there was two areas of CS tape one on one side of the creek one where they were found?

At the south end of the bridge - and only by the bridge not in the woods below or elsewhere on the south side of the creek - is one marked off area. The other marked off area is where the girls were found on the north side of the creek on RL's property.

 

[sumzero]

Yes, the media's knowledge of SW and their presence spoke volumes....

It only takes one tweet to a reporter from a local who happened to notice LE activity at that location. To read more into it, considering how little we know, is probably unwarranted.

 

[ShHolmz]

OT
Im an unofficial expert at scoping out the neighborhood happenings using binoculars from inside my house.

Here are some valuable tips to help those that are also in the profession
:websleuther:

TIP 1:
It helps to be
:drink:
because that way you get overly paranoid at the slightest noises outside.

TIP 2:
When using binoculars always stand back about 5 feet from your window so that you cannot be seen from anyone outside. If you stand too close to your window then people outside can actually see you standing there near your window looking out with binoculars. LOL
If you stand back aways from your window then it becomes much harder for anyone to make out that you are back there looking out.
Plus, the extra five feet is not needed since you have binoculars

TIP 3
This is the most important tip.
When using binoculars at night then be sure to turn off all your lights in the room you are in. Otherwise you will stand out like a sore thumb to the people outside. If you have it dark in the room you are in then you can still see out just fine and nobody from the outside can tell you are in your room looking out with binoculars.
Even when it is not dark out then still make sure your room does not have any lights on.

TIP 4:
If you have a screened window those are all the better to stand behind when looking outside with binoculars. The screening causes it to look dark inside your house to anyone who is outside looking back towards your screened in window.
Plus the screening does not impede your viewing much at all.

TIP 5
Make sure you are not standing in front of anything white like a refrigerator or something that will make you stand out. You dont want your silhouette to contrast with anything behind it. It is best to have a dark colored wall behind you.

TIP 6
Stay still
If you do have to move then move very slowly. You dont want to make any sudden movements as you can be spotted more easily if you are moving around.

GOOD LUCK and if you do find that someone on the outside notices you looking out your window then do what I do. Freak out and run away from your window. :floorlaugh:

lol! I just wet myself! Thanks

 

[Jethro4WS]

Anything on scanner from there?

There are no online LE scanners for Clinton County Indiana where that town is located.

 

[Yvettea]

Something to remember about the Monon High Bridge, a train used to cross it. You are not corralled on either end.