IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #49

[Falling Down]

Real, intelligent investigative journalism seems to be a rare occurrence in America these days. It's largely been replaced by tabloid-style opinionated windbags, political pundits, and "experts" who sometimes know zilch about their supposed area of expertise. It seems that the better IJ's have gone on to work for NPR, the BBC, RT, and the like. Maybe someone could contact one of them to dig into this case, if we don't have some answers within the next few weeks?

I agree with most of this post.

The MSM outlets, for the most part, have gone full bore with a bent towards ad revenue, vs. reporting factual information. Investigative journalism? That's been all but dead for some years, now. Seymour Hersh comes to mind as one of the last of the true investigative journalists who is still active, and he's around 80 years old.

MOO is it's better to take what much of what the media report with a grain of salt. Notice there were no pres conferences after RL was arrested, only a small number of blurbs from LE which I wouldn't put much faith in, considering it wasn't official information, as in statements explaining what was going on.

We've gone weeks without a PC, and there have been no new developments. None.

 

[expatCanada]

Link for this? I can't find anywhere where the word "cleared" is used for the BBR sw. Thank you.

Actually I think the issue is they cleared the other two publicly known search warrants in the beginning very quickly almost immediately. Yet, they haven't for RLs and it's been I don't know 4 weeks now? Odd I can't wait till they speak on this aspect. Because the SW is different then the probation violation charges.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Then the scenario would then be that Abby was walking along side of BG and Libby was 80 feet ahead? If that were so, odds are that at least Abby personally knew him.



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That's an interesting scenario. We did think there had been something blanked out ( I mentioned a dog but was laughed out of town ) and it could explain him walking on one side rather than in the middle IMO.

 

[GangaMa]

This has started to bother me a bit, so if anyone wants to respond with some sound data to help organize this part of the crime stuff, many thanks.
The girls get dropped off around 1pm, give or take. By 2pm or so, Abby's picture is uploaded, and in another 25-30 minutes, BG's picture is captured (or sent to the cloud - we don't know which). By then they (the girls) have a grand total of 30-60 minutes left before someone starts hollering for them from the pickup location. We don't know what time their ride actually showed up, so we have to guess.
But still, whoever took the girls off the bridge at around 2:30 pm had some traveling to do to get them down the hill while still upright (no bad falls) and then haul across that terrain all the way over to the water basin section of RL's property. No one is running - the terrain won't support it. By the time they are all over at the one acknowledged crime scene it's got to be at least 3:00 pm. IMO. That does not give the killer(s) much time to do anything elaborate, tie both of them up, or pose bodies or any of that, much less take off without being seen.

Now the killer(s) had a choice of places to go : to the cemetery, to RL's place, to the neighbors that live adjacent to the end of the Bridge that has no further trail, or to the road that goes under the bridge (from that same neighbor's house). We can imagine that he/they wouldn't be dumb enough to go back onto the trail and get recognized by anyone. The point is that all that had to take time, and time does not seem to have been in abundance. From 2:30 pm to 3:00 or 3:30 pm before someone gets upset and starts looking? And if the BG had gotten the girls to tell him when their ride was showing up, he had to have known there wasn't much time.

It would be great to have LE give us a few more tips about timing, wouldn't it? But with what we have, the time frame thing bothers me. All MOO.

 

[indy53]

If LE is sure RL is their man, they have him locked up already. It gives them plenty of time to get all the lab info back and whatever else they may be trying to nail down before they file charges. It kind of takes the pressure off, though of course there is still the need to satisfy the public that they are safe and they have the case figured out. I don't think they're ignoring that but maybe just being extra cautious about saying anything definitive.

If their suspect is someone they don't have locked up, it's a completely different calculation--they'd be even more careful to get their ducks in a row before arresting him.

In either case they would hesitate to name a suspect until they're ready to file charges. All IMO.

This --- "And IF the person is already in custody, there is absolutely no rush to file charges until they have all the information they need to be sure they can prosecute successfully."

If LE doesn't have all the information, how could they determine who could be "prosecuted successfully"? Once again, this is the cart before the horse scenario. LE cannot identify a suspect without information, yet you suggest they may have done so and this is a normal course of events? Predetermining the outcome before all the information has been received will certainly not serve justice.

If there "is absolutely no rush to file charges" would indicate they're still in the midst of investigation and have identified no suspects.




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[Elley Mae]

Yes 23 minutes, i wondered if the girls saw him approaching from the north and went south until they reached ground. They could have seen him from a good distance as the tracks are straight and pretty level from photos we have seen. Jmo

I have also wondered about the pickup time, 3-3:30. They could have been late for pickup in the past, the pickup person could have lost track of time sitting in vehicle texting w/ friend, reading fb post. Seems that the girls spent as much on the trail as the person did waiting before notifiying LE. Jmo

So it was 23 mins from the Abby photo to BG photo and them getting to the south side.



I feel like we are missing a big piece of the puzzle. He obviously spooked them somhow and yet when I look at that photo at face value he looks so casual and doesn't seem to have a care in the world.

IMO

 

[asyousay]

Then the scenario would then be that Abby was walking along side of BG and Libby was 80 feet ahead? If that were so, odds are that at least Abby personally knew him.



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I am generally so confused now. The more I read the less it all makes any sense.


So to my eyes this photo has been edited. Something in front of him has been edited out. Why would LE do that unless it's something important?


Also in the second photo you can see something grey in front of him and Abby wore a grey jacket that day.


ETA- so the big photo in this article you can see where LE have tried to blur stuff out http://www.wthr.com/article/man-pho...ail-now-named-suspect-in-murder-of-teen-girls

 

[gregjrichards]

I just want to say a big thank you to all of you for your dedication to Abbey and Liberty's case and wish you all a Happy Easter. It is very sad the girls are not here to spend it with their families.

 

[Bemused]

While I agree with most we do know an alibi is needed between 2:30 and directly after more or less.

According to the affidavit to seal the autopsy reports, citing the need to protect the integrity of the homicide investigation, the date of death for both girls was 2/13/17. We know they were dropped off at 1 PM 2/13, last known to be alive at 2-2:30 PM on the same day, and that they were discovered deceased on 2/14 at approximately 12:15 PM. I think we can safely deduce what hours investigators are interested in for 2/13 as well as the whereabouts of PsOI. IMO

 

[her]

Link for this? I can't find anywhere where the word "cleared" is used for the BBR sw. Thank you.

This was very long ago in the first threads, I think they even mentioned it in twitter too. I will look but it's pretty common knowledge.

 

[WebSight]

Considering RL's past offenses and interactions with LE over the years, not to mention he has lived on the same property for 53 years....and LE & FBI say they blew up the picture of BG and studied it, etc., why is it no one recognized BG to be RL right off the bat? Why wait so long for the SW? The girls were found on his property. Surely that qualifies for a limited SW the day of (?).

And no one in the community or his direct neighbors are saying hey, look at that BG he walks/dresses/sounds just like our old buddy RL. And I say this because wouldn't there have been LE action/search warrant at his house right away if they did recognize him?

If LE couldn't recognize BG as RL then I've lost faith that anyone will recognize him. But I don't believe they were unable to recognize him because IMO it isn't him.

That is an interesting take and worth pondering.

It would seem that of all people, if RL was BG, LE would know straight away. They have the video and they have seen it and studied it. I don't think it would take them very long to recognize the mannerisms, attire, gait, and anything else that identifies someone, especially if that someone is front and center of their investigation. I cannot imagine then that they would wait even a nano-second, let alone 5 weeks to obtain and carry out a Probably Cause SW for RL's property. imo

 

[expatCanada]

We went through this same thing a day or two ago and no one could find the "cleared", just not a suspect.. JMO and looking everywhere. Thanks.

This was very long ago in the first threads, I think they even mentioned it in twitter too. I will look but it's pretty common knowledge.

 

[Rossymom]

IMO LE does not want to use the term "suspect" unless they are ready to arrest and file charges. If they label someone a suspect, then the public will naturally demand an arrest and LE would be compelled to make that arrest. ."

This is what happened in "To Kill A Mockingbird".


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[ReggieHammond]

To me, and I've stated this a few times since joining in on the threads about this case, this is a small area, really. As an avid hiker, I see this area around the bridge, and around the bend upstream from it where the girls were found, to me rather small, in the grand scheme of things, albeit with some 'blind' and 'secluded' spots.

MOO is there is no regular illegal activity going on there, people would notice, and it would stand out in a small town like Delphi. At least not so far as meth lab stuff, and similar drug activity. The perp came prepared to murder someone that day, it was unusually warm, and the circumstances conspired such that two girls were murdered.

 

[her]

This was very long ago in the first threads, I think they even mentioned it in twitter too. I will look but it's pretty common knowledge.

Here is one article it's hard to do on this iPad it's towards the bottom a bit
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...stigation-means-keeping-low-profile/98214716/

 

[Falling Down]

This has started to bother me a bit, so if anyone wants to respond with some sound data to help organize this part of the crime stuff, many thanks.
The girls get dropped off around 1pm, give or take. By 2pm or so, Abby's picture is uploaded, and in another 25-30 minutes, BG's picture is captured (or sent to the cloud - we don't know which). By then they (the girls) have a grand total of 30-60 minutes left before someone starts hollering for them from the pickup location. We don't know what time their ride actually showed up, so we have to guess.
But still, whoever took the girls off the bridge at around 2:30 pm had some traveling to do to get them down the hill while still upright (no bad falls) and then haul across that terrain all the way over to the water basin section of RL's property. No one is running - the terrain won't support it. By the time they are all over at the one acknowledged crime scene it's got to be at least 3:00 pm. IMO. That does not give the killer(s) much time to do anything elaborate, tie both of them up, or pose bodies or any of that, much less take off without being seen.

Now the killer(s) had a choice of places to go : to the cemetery, to RL's place, to the neighbors that live adjacent to the end of the Bridge that has no further trail, or to the road that goes under the bridge (from that same neighbor's house). We can imagine that he/they wouldn't be dumb enough to go back onto the trail and get recognized by anyone. The point is that all that had to take time, and time does not seem to have been in abundance. From 2:30 pm to 3:00 or 3:30 pm before someone gets upset and starts looking? And if the BG had gotten the girls to tell him when their ride was showing up, he had to have known there wasn't much time.

It would be great to have LE give us a few more tips about timing, wouldn't it? But with what we have, the time frame thing bothers me. All MOO.

Or whoever picked them up may not have started actually looking for them until 4. Who knows? The walk from the parking lot to the bridge takes several minutes to traverse, which is another consideration.

The walk from the SE end of the bridge to the spot where they were found could be traversed in under a few minutes, which is proven by a few YouTube videos by some members here. Roughly 600 feet. The bridge itself could be crossed in well under 4 minutes, by someone determined enough to do so, and particularly one who has done it before.

They could have been at the crime scene by 2:40, for all we know. That quick.

Whoever did this is slick, and it's plainly obvious that it was premeditated.

 

[expatCanada]

That's not a quote for LE. JMO

Here is one article it's hard to do on this iPad it's towards the bottom a bit
http://www.jconline.com/story/news/...stigation-means-keeping-low-profile/98214716/

 

[Bird of Paradise]

I have visited. Which questions do you think the scanner answers?

I stand corrected. Was thinking the date of death was down there but see Bemused posted this and refreshed my memory...

According to the affidavit to seal the autopsy reports, citing the need to protect the integrity of the homicide investigation, the date of death for both girls was 2/13/17.

 

[her]

We went through this same thing a day or two ago and no one could find the "cleared", just not a suspect.. JMO and looking everywhere. Thanks.

I looked at twitter ISP, not there. I can recall after the Bicycle Rd police kept stating or it was reported that leave the family alone they have nothing to do with this...

ETA: I just broke out my laptop no more iPad good grief I can't use that

 

[WebSight]

We went through this same thing a day or two ago and no one could find the "cleared", just not a suspect.. JMO and looking everywhere. Thanks.

I have no quote here but I thought they said right after the SW was carried out on Bicycle Bridge Road that "they found no evidence linking them to the case."