IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #49

[CataKil]

I know I've been there and it is a lot of work, and they are to be commended for it, but IMO there's not much there, and I'm sure when people are told to go there they get their hopes up as I did, only to come back here with the same facts I had when I went down there. IMO

I went to "the basement" yesterday out of curiosity...all this talk about the scanner threads! I was pleasantly surprised by the valuable info there. Maybe you didn't read it all or look in the right places?

 

[Deleted member 155000]

Should i????

I think so. Can't hurt.


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[her]

There's really not much to go on from that photo. I'm not sure as to why they would have cropped it, even if Abby was next to him, unless something terrible already happened to her. IMO

BBM is a great point to think about, just throwing it out there and have not considered it as a possibility like other people.
Maybe this is why LE has not ruled out the fact that it was one person. What if something did happen to her and it shows it, yet the perp is walking on the bridge. It would make sense there was another person.

I think still besides this point that it was one person. If it was two word would get out more then likely as in one of them would talk after a power struggle about who is the alpha. Just rambling and considering more then my point of view at the same time.


ETA:

I'm just guessing, there must be certain criteria by which LE can formally CLEAR people. By that I mean perhaps only when they're able to determine there's a irrefutable alibi that the person couldn't have committed the crime because there's proof they were somewhere else?

All this talk of people being cleared might be giving the false impression that LE also determines guilt and we all know that's not true. LE gathers evidence and either the Prosector or a Grand Jury decide if it's enough to proceed to trial.


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I never thought LE determine guilt a judge/jury do.

 

[BIC]

I went to "the basement" yesterday out of curiosity...all this talk about the scanner threads! I was pleasantly surprised by the valuable info there. Maybe you didn't read it all or look in the right places?

I went through it all, some of it was very interesting, but whenever there was a chance for some kind of clue LE always went to Telephone.

 

[Daae]

OK so this blue jacket on BG has been really bothering me for weeks!!!! I sew a lot and so the front closure has just not made sense to me. I've looked at hunting, military, work, rain...every type of jacket and I finally figured it out!

IMO it is a conceal and carry jacket

[
Watch the video on how these work!! they can have a closure that allows access to the gun and they are ambidextrous !!!!

If LE can just trace this jacket!!! It's probably slightly older.
[video=youtube;gXImTzwo4tk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXImTzwo4tk[/video]
View attachment 114907View attachment 114908

OK, I'm back working on this jacket again.

I've looked at most of the recent conceal and carry jacket manufacturers and BG's jacket seems to be older.
Here is a vest with a velcro closure that has a similar closure as the jacket. This is from 2009.


It's the tab at the middle of the zipper that I'm focusing on.
I believe BG bought this with the intention of using it for weapon concealment. If so, and if he is a repeat offender this may be part of his kill kit and he may not have thrown it away. It's an unusual jacket. He may be ex military.
IMO he went out that day with the intention to subdue a victim. I now believe it's highly likely there is a gun on his right side and therefore left-handed.
I wish every gun shop owner would look through their old catalogues for this jacket. This older merchandise is not all on the internet. It could be 8-20 years old. I don't believe it's a current design. I've searched. Please help sleuth for this jacket.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Switching gears, I'm now leaning towards an answer as to why BG was there that day, and wonder if they may have been in contact with one or both girls on SM prior to that day.

A LE guy mentioned something early on in the case about parents knowing what their kids are up to on SM/online, or something similar. It's been mentioned that Libby had a Kik account, which I didn't know much about until I stumbled upon this just earlier:

http://foreverymom.com/mom-gold/my-...&utm_medium=Susannah&utm_campaign=Kik+account

According to that article, there are no parental controls which can be applied to Kik, and like other apps it can be applied to smart devices besides phones.

Could she or they have been stalked online? Here is info about Kik from Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger





Good grief, what a nightmare for LE! I've alluded to the perp possibly using IP addresses from random public or online sources, along with a VPN or similar means to mask identity (location). All someone would have to do is use a smart TracFone, loaded up with minutes paid for with cash or with a cash card paid with cash, or other smart device, then set up a free e-mail account, then sign up for Kik. This may sound sophisticated to some, but really it is not.

As others wondered early on, were they there to meet somebody, somebody who turned out to be BG? I don't know how Kik works, but I wonder how many apps such as Kik/SC/etc. can be entwined, so images and messages appear on multiple platforms, simultaneously.

I think that is a possibility but we must hope that LE have surely checked this out, especially considering the early FBI involvement.

 

[Yvettea]

It's possible Libby's bravery is connected to Abby in this way. She continued to film as BG approached. Perhaps he did have ahold of Abby but Libby kept filming determined to fight him when he reached her, free Abby and make a run for it. IMO

 

[Daae]

Switching gears, I'm now leaning towards an answer as to why BG was there that day, and wonder if they may have been in contact with one or both girls on SM prior to that day.

A LE guy mentioned something early on in the case about parents knowing what their kids are up to on SM/online, or something similar. It's been mentioned that Libby had a Kik account, which I didn't know much about until I stumbled upon this just earlier:

http://foreverymom.com/mom-gold/my-...&utm_medium=Susannah&utm_campaign=Kik+account

According to that article, there are no parental controls which can be applied to Kik, and like other apps it can be applied to smart devices besides phones.

Could she or they have been stalked online? Here is info about Kik from Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger





Good grief, what a nightmare for LE! I've alluded to the perp possibly using IP addresses from random public or online sources, along with a VPN or similar means to mask identity (location). All someone would have to do is use a smart TracFone, loaded up with minutes paid for with cash or with a cash card paid with cash, or other smart device, then set up a free e-mail account, then sign up for Kik. This may sound sophisticated to some, but really it is not.

As others wondered early on, were they there to meet somebody, somebody who turned out to be BG? I don't know how Kik works, but I wonder how many apps such as Kik/SC/etc. can be entwined, so images and messages appear on multiple platforms, simultaneously.

I have wondered about this kik account......

 

[observation]

OK, I'm back working on this jacket again.

I've looked at most of the recent conceal and carry jacket manufacturers and BG's jacket seems to be older.
Here is a vest with a velcro closure that has a similar closure as the jacket. This is from 2009.


View attachment 114973 It's the tab at the middle of the zipper that I'm focusing on.
I believe BG bought this with the intention of using it for weapon concealment. If so, and if he is a repeat offender this may be part of his kill kit and he may not have thrown it away. It's an unusual jacket. He may be ex military.
IMO he went out that day with the intention to subdue a victim. I now believe it's highly likely there is a gun on his right side and therefore left-handed.
I wish every gun shop owner would look through their old catalogues for this jacket. This older merchandise is not all on the internet. It could be 8-20 years old. I don't believe it's a current design. I've searched. Please help sleuth for this jacket.View attachment 114980

Valuable sleuthing but let's also get the man who donned that jacket- BG. I really feel for these families as I have become very invested myself and never met them. So tragic. Turn yourself in, BG, only a matter of time. Tick- tock.


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[crhedBngr]

Switching gears, I'm now leaning towards an answer as to why BG was there that day, and wonder if they may have been in contact with one or both girls on SM prior to that day.

A LE guy mentioned something early on in the case about parents knowing what their kids are up to on SM/online, or something similar. It's been mentioned that Libby had a Kik account, which I didn't know much about until I stumbled upon this just earlier:

http://foreverymom.com/mom-gold/my-...&utm_medium=Susannah&utm_campaign=Kik+account

According to that article, there are no parental controls which can be applied to Kik, and like other apps it can be applied to smart devices besides phones.

Could she or they have been stalked online? Here is info about Kik from Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger





Good grief, what a nightmare for LE! I've alluded to the perp possibly using IP addresses from random public or online sources, along with a VPN or similar means to mask identity (location). All someone would have to do is use a smart TracFone, loaded up with minutes paid for with cash or with a cash card paid with cash, or other smart device, then set up a free e-mail account, then sign up for Kik. This may sound sophisticated to some, but really it is not.

As others wondered early on, were they there to meet somebody, somebody who turned out to be BG? I don't know how Kik works, but I wonder how many apps such as Kik/SC/etc. can be entwined, so images and messages appear on multiple platforms, simultaneously.

Read the "foreverymom" article. Just horrible. I don't have kids, but my hair is turning gray just thinking ​about this!

Edited to add: I'm forever grateful to my parents that they were strict. Not much escaped them. Obviously, this is in hindsight--I resented them at times for this as a teen--but am thanking them again after reading the article!

 

[Jabarn]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=114974&d=1488242225

I have looked at it and looked at it. The gif showing the stills from the video is exemplary. Please reply with the credit due. I agree the order the stills are presented makes sense, and BG is stepping away from the side of the bridge behind him, toward LG, as she films. My eyes focus on his right hand. To me, it looks like he is reaching for, what others here have pointed out, as a hand gun in his jacket and is midway toward pulling it out. IMO.

 

[BIC]

OK, I'm back working on this jacket again.

I've looked at most of the recent conceal and carry jacket manufacturers and BG's jacket seems to be older.
Here is a vest with a velcro closure that has a similar closure as the jacket. This is from 2009.

It's the tab at the middle of the zipper that I'm focusing on.
I believe BG bought this with the intention of using it for weapon concealment. If so, and if he is a repeat offender this may be part of his kill kit and he may not have thrown it away. It's an unusual jacket. He may be ex military.
IMO he went out that day with the intention to subdue a victim. I now believe it's highly likely there is a gun on his right side and therefore left-handed.
I wish every gun shop owner would look through their old catalogues for this jacket. This older merchandise is not all on the internet. It could be 8-20 years old. I don't believe it's a current design. I've searched. Please help sleuth for this jacket.

To my eye, if that were a conceal carry jacket, the gun would be in more of a horizontal position so as to be able to draw it quickly. As it is it would be very cumbersome to grab it by the grip. Maybe like you said it is older and maybe even worn out a little. IMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

Actually serious alcoholics can have an extremely high level of alcohol in their blood and yet appear stone cold sober. Many times police officers arrest a driver for impaired driving and are shocked by their blood/alcohol readings. The person can seem slightly impaired or not at all (physical symptoms), yet their blood/alcohol readings are so high they should be in a coma. This is because the persons' body is so used to having alcohol in their system they are literally pickled. Their body adjusts to the high levels and it becomes the norm for them.

Maybe but when they are asked to walk a line or touch their nose with their eyes closed, they can't manage the coordination. I don't therefore think they would manage the treads and the gaps but that's my opinion.

 

[her]

The only problem I have with that is, for me at least, you can't even tell whats an eye or what's a pixel. IMO

I so agree with you but I look at total movement of the head. He sees that the girls are filming maybe and turns his face down as he moves in?

ETA: I agree you cannot see eyes you can see pixel all like, mashed potatoes basically

 

[BIC]

I so agree with you but I look at total movement of the head. He sees that the girls are filming maybe and turns his face down as he moves in?

ETA: I agree you cannot see eyes you can see pixel all like, mashed potatoes basically

You could be right.

 

[her]

You could be right.

I could be wrong too.

We just don't know and speculate making educated guess's. Thats what makes this case so frustrating from our end.

 

[WebSight]

Final post about chat with my teen daughters (for today anyway)

RL is the man who owns the property where the girls were found. Let's say that you were walking the trails and ended up on his property. Let's say you did something to really upset him, be it trespassing or messing with his equipment or his animals. He shouts at you, he's really upset and chases you off.

Now you are on the bridge and you see someone coming. You realize that it is RL, who just yelled at you. Do you film him?

No.

I wouldn't, no.

When you see him coming, he looks or is acting really angry, are you scared?

No, I wouldn't be.

Why not, he's just been yelling at you and now he's followed you across the bridge. You wouldn't be afraid and start filming?

I would just figure he's coming to yell at us some more. I wouldn't film him.

He's an old man!

Yeah, I know I can outrun him anyway and I have enough time.

So, when you talked about the different reasons that you would film someone that creeps you out, you would then not film the property owner who's just yelled at you?

Nope.

He's angry, not creepy

 

[Bemused]

I have wondered about this kik account......

Kim Riley made the statement about knowing what children are doing.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...iley-amber-alert-would-not-have-done-any-good

Riley also gave advice for people who are concerned about the crime.

"Be cautious and be careful and be parents," he said. "Just make sure they know where their children are at, what their children are doing and -- if nothing else -- know what's going on in their lives."

 

[BIC]

I could be wrong too.

We just don't know and speculate making educated guess's. Thats what makes this case so frustrating from our end.

Yes, I agree.

 

[Shiressleuth]

But wouldn’t that kick in your survival instinct to run? I’m a Psych major, so often it’s the “why,” and not always the “what,” that intrigues me.

My adult self, and my 13 yo self would react totally different in this situation...so when I run the scenarios through my mind, as to what WOULDN’T make my 13 yo self run, I draw blanks. So, like you, this is something that has often bothered me about this case, and something I have often thought about.

I’m sure Libby had her reasons, and I guess it could be something as simple as she was braver than I ever was at 13…maybe I’m over-thinking it. MOO








The red is what has always bothered me. The green is a theory many have expressed, and I guess I never really believed in.

I think I’ll take the “2 Perps” theory more seriously.

The 2 perp theory. They park at the cemetery and watch the bridge. See the girls begin to cross. BG heads to North end of bridge and accomplice crosses creek and approaches South end of bridge. Girls are close to south end of bridge when they notice BG approaching so turn to go south then notice the accomplice. L begins to record. .....