IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #49

[TeaTime]

OK, I'm back working on this jacket again.

I've looked at most of the recent conceal and carry jacket manufacturers and BG's jacket seems to be older.
Here is a vest with a velcro closure that has a similar closure as the jacket. This is from 2009.

It's the tab at the middle of the zipper that I'm focusing on.
I believe BG bought this with the intention of using it for weapon concealment. If so, and if he is a repeat offender this may be part of his kill kit and he may not have thrown it away. It's an unusual jacket. He may be ex military.
IMO he went out that day with the intention to subdue a victim. I now believe it's highly likely there is a gun on his right side and therefore left-handed.
I wish every gun shop owner would look through their old catalogues for this jacket. This older merchandise is not all on the internet. It could be 8-20 years old. I don't believe it's a current design. I've searched. Please help sleuth for this jacket.

Excellent work. That funky closure in the front had me thinking and posting that the jacket was on inside out but your find makes it apparent that he has on a very specialized jacket - not from the local tractor supply store or Wal-mart.

Kudos!

Send this little hint to LE?

I have to laugh at myself here. I googled 'concealed carry jackets' and guess what popped up? A Wal-mart ad for these type of jackets. Who knew?

 

[Aropizt]

But wouldn’t that kick in your survival instinct to run? I’m a Psych major, so often it’s the “why,” and not always the “what,” that intrigues me.

My adult self, and my 13 yo self would react totally different in this situation...so when I run the scenarios through my mind, as to what WOULDN’T make my 13 yo self run, I draw blanks. So, like you, this is something that has often bothered me about this case, and something I have often thought about.

I’m sure Libby had her reasons, and I guess it could be something as simple as she was braver than I ever was at 13…maybe I’m over-thinking it. MOO

I don't think I've given the "why" enough thought myself at least as far as why she filmed (I've wondered the whys to all sorts of things about the killer!).

It really makes me curious if they knew BG then. That's really the only logic I can come up with as far as why they didn't run but had the foresight to video. I know I commented a couple threads ago about how weird our responses can be in crisis and even sited a personal example where I completely missed the obvious solution in a matter that was literally life or death but my situation also wasn't one where I could run or film so hmm... and I guess I struggle to understand how one would think to film but not run.

Only thing I can come up with is either one or both girls recognized him and maybe because they knew him in some way they didn't think he'd hurt them but we're still concerned? But even then why not run?

My second thought is, maybe they moved closer together as a safety type response (that is one thing I absolutely think I would do and have done in situations that made me uncomfortable.). I mean think of how often on school field trips and such kids get told to "use the buddy system" and I would seriously bet neither of those girls would have wanted to go hiking alone (or been allowed to at their age) but because they were together no doubt both they and their families figured they were much safer. And in most situations that's still probably true. So I guess I wonder if the thought went through their head that "Well, there's two of us so we should be okay. She's my best friend so she has my back and I have hers." I think I would've believed that as a 13 year old. I remember being around their age or even a bit younger and my best friend and I used to go walking to the local grocery store or the 7-11 or the ice cream shop which were all only a few blocks from my house on a busy street. Good gosh did we get honked at and shouted at or whistled at a startling amount of times especially given how young we were (legit had this happen way more as a kid/ young teen than it ever has to me as an adult!) We'd laugh about it because hey, we were together. Meanwhile I think I was 17 or 18 this time I was walking alone after visiting a friend and this car with several teenage guys pulled up and shouted "How much?" And then raced ahead to the next intersection and parked so I couldn't get by to the rest of the sidewalk and they seriously told me to get in. They drove off when I said hell no and that was the end of that thankfully but because I had just been with my friend I literally remember thinking "If only she had been here. They never would've done it and I wouldn't have been so frightened." Blows my mind too that looking back it didn't cross my mind to report them to police! Whether they were joking or not that was literally an attempted abduction. And I was older than Abby and Libby. But maybe that's a good example of the mindset of teenagers, they think nothing too bad will ever happen to them.

Actually I'm also sure I didn't make as much of the above experience because the guys in the car were all teenagers. Which brings up what some have wondered looking at BG, what if he was a lot younger than many of us believe? Maybe they didn't run because much like me, they were creeped out but figured oh, he's practically our age so what's he going to do? It's a worthwhile thought I think because I think many kids and teens have this idea that "bad guys" are all older adults who look a certain stereotyped way. If you were still a teenager and saw a shady looking teen or young adult walking up to you and your friend, wouldn't you be less afraid than if you saw a 40 or 70 or whatever age man walking up? I mean I don't know. I'm too old now I guess because I sure think of those experiences I mentioned above much, much differently now than I did back then.

Those are the only options I can come up with and even then I still wonder why record and why not run? I still lean towards thinking something about BG must have been familiar to them.



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[Aropizt]

Perhaps BG was not known to the girls but someone he was with was recognized. BG may have been having a rendezvous with a married woman or a male that the girls knew and he may have killed them to save his lover from exposure.

It is as good a theory as any other and would explain why his ID would be kept secret.

I don't necessarily believe it, but at this moment in time, anything is possible.

Hmm, you know even without the affair angle to could be onto something in general with the idea maybe if they didn't know him they knew someone he was with. I'm not sure whether I believe there were two perps or not but I had just posted that the only thing that really made sense to me as far as why they didn't run was if they recognized BG. But then your theory makes just as much sense that if they didn't know BG, they knew someone he was with. I personally think the affair scenario is highly unlikely (just seems like there's better places to meet up for that, like a hotel) but I respect your opinion completely and you're right that can't be ruled out. But the bigger point is regardless of the reason for the crime, if they didn't recognize BG perhaps they knew someone he was with, if he was with another person at any point.


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[AmateurAnalyst73]

That's plausible, although I still think(MOO) that since Liberty had been ahead of Abigail on the bridge earlier, she was likely still ahead of her, and when she got to the end, turned around to take another photo or short video of her friend, and BG was right behind Abigail. If they weren't looking back, they may never have known he was even on the bridge with them until that point(assuming he entered from the North side, and hadn't entered from the South and doubled back.
If he had entered from the south, that could have raised suspicion, and when he turned around, that likely would have really caused them to be afraid.

One thing I would like to add about the filming and I think it is important.

When I asked them about the filming it was because that is what Libby did. So, the question had to be "Why did she film." They came up with all those reasons why this guy would creep them out, and so, since she took the video those were possible reasons why.

But they could not figure out why she would film at all. To them moving away from him as he approached was paramount in their minds. If he was coming from the north side and was still on the bridge then there should have been time to run. He would not be able to go after them still stuck on the bridge.

As I replied to Reggie earlier, they could only think that someone must have come up behind them.

 

[WildWild_West]

OK so this blue jacket on BG has been really bothering me for weeks!!!! I sew a lot and so the front closure has just not made sense to me. I've looked at hunting, military, work, rain...every type of jacket and I finally figured it out!

IMO it is a conceal and carry jacket

Watch the video on how these work!! they can have a closure that allows access to the gun and they are ambidextrous !!!!

If LE can just trace this jacket!!! It's probably slightly older.
[video=youtube;gXImTzwo4tk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXImTzwo4tk[/video]
View attachment 114907View attachment 114908

This is an outstanding find. It really looks like the jacket he's wearing!


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[Aropizt]

Notably, I have not seen one and I have been in Ohio, PA, WV, VA, NC, SC, GA, and Fl, and all on major interstates.
:sleuth:

And I've been up and down multiple interstates in MI quite a few times since the crime and never saw one either. And some of those roads I basically have the billboards memorized so I think I would've noticed. Maybe not. Was in NE all of February but didn't do any driving myself. Might have been back home before they were put out but I'm not sure. I do know the case has been on the news in MI since I've discussed the case some with my mom and that's how she first heard but hmm, seems like if BG is not from the area, there's got to be so many people who never heard about the case at all. Hoping none of them had the info needed for this case to be solved.


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[WebSight]

I don't think I've given the "why" enough thought myself at least as far as why she filmed (I've wondered the whys to all sorts of things about the killer!).

It really makes me curious if they knew BG then. That's really the only logic I can come up with as far as why they didn't run but had the foresight to video. I know I commented a couple threads ago about how weird our responses can be in crisis and even sited a personal example where I completely missed the obvious solution in a matter that was literally life or death but my situation also wasn't one where I could run or film so hmm... and I guess I struggle to understand how one would think to film but not run.

Only thing I can come up with is either one or both girls recognized him and maybe because they knew him in some way they didn't think he'd hurt them but we're still concerned? But even then why not run?

My second thought is, maybe they moved closer together as a safety type response (that is one thing I absolutely think I would do and have done in situations that made me uncomfortable.). I mean think of how often on school field trips and such kids get told to "use the buddy system" and I would seriously bet neither of those girls would have wanted to go hiking alone (or been allowed to at their age) but because they were together no doubt both they and their families figured they were much safer. And in most situations that's still probably true. So I guess I wonder if the thought went through their head that "Well, there's two of us so we should be okay. She's my best friend so she has my back and I have hers." I think I would've believed that as a 13 year old. I remember being around their age or even a bit younger and my best friend and I used to go walking to the local grocery store or the 7-11 or the ice cream shop which were all only a few blocks from my house on a busy street. Good gosh did we get honked at and shouted at or whistled at a startling amount of times especially given how young we were (legit had this happen way more as a kid/ young teen than it ever has to me as an adult!) We'd laugh about it because hey, we were together. Meanwhile I think I was 17 or 18 this time I was walking alone after visiting a friend and this car with several teenage guys pulled up and shouted "How much?" And then raced ahead to the next intersection and parked so I couldn't get by to the rest of the sidewalk and they seriously told me to get in. They drove off when I said hell no and that was the end of that thankfully but because I had just been with my friend I literally remember thinking "If only she had been here. They never would've done it and I wouldn't have been so frightened." Blows my mind too that looking back it didn't cross my mind to report them to police! Whether they were joking or not that was literally an attempted abduction. And I was older than Abby and Libby. But maybe that's a good example of the mindset of teenagers, they think nothing too bad will ever happen to them.

Actually I'm also sure I didn't make as much of the above experience because the guys in the car were all teenagers. Which brings up what some have wondered looking at BG, what if he was a lot younger than many of us believe? Maybe they didn't run because much like me, they were creeped out but figured oh, he's practically our age so what's he going to do? It's a worthwhile thought I think because I think many kids and teens have this idea that "bad guys" are all older adults who look a certain stereotyped way. If you were still a teenager and saw a shady looking teen or young adult walking up to you and your friend, wouldn't you be less afraid than if you saw a 40 or 70 or whatever age man walking up? I mean I don't know. I'm too old now I guess because I sure think of those experiences I mentioned above much, much differently now than I did back then.

Those are the only options I can come up with and even then I still wonder why record and why not run? I still lean towards thinking something about BG must have been familiar to them.



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Hi Aropizt! I hope you mind me responding to your post. Interesting about your experiences. I was about 13 and some perv slowed down his car and started following me while I was walking home from school one day. I turned to the nearest house that looked like someone was home and rang the doorbell. They came to the door (thank God!) and I told them what happened and they let me in and we all watched as the car drove off. But no one thought to call my parents. I just stayed there for awhile until we thought the coast was clear and then I went on my way. It was a different time I guess.

From talking with my daughters, I think they viewed the filming as the last resort. They couldn't really know why or understand filming someone who scares you unless it was too late and that was all there was left to do. When talking about BG walking toward them from the north side of the bridge, they could only imagine why Libby had filmed because they knew that that was what she had done. When discussing BG coming on the bridge from the south, it made more sense to them that she would film, as the last line of defense.

 

[ReggieHammond]

And I've been up and down multiple interstates in MI quite a few times since the crime and never saw one either. And some of those roads I basically have the billboards memorized so I think I would've noticed. Maybe not. Was in NE all of February but didn't do any driving myself. Might have been back home before they were put out but I'm not sure. I do know the case has been on the news in MI since I've discussed the case some with my mom and that's how she first heard but hmm, seems like if BG is not from the area, there's got to be so many people who never heard about the case at all. Hoping none of them had the info needed for this case to be solved.


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WebSight and daughters have given me a lot to rethink....I've always thought L&A encountered BG earlier on the trail, but it had to be something minor, otherwise they would've called to be picked up. I thought he then approached from the North, but being the second time they saw him, and he's heading towards them on the South end, where there's nothing but private property, I never could understand why they wouldn't sense he was danger and run.

1) I honestly think now, there could absolutely be 2 perps...

2) He could've come from somewhere on the South end, passed them, and since we don't know where Abby was when Libby filmed BG, it's possible that when he turned back towards them, he was so close to Abby that they couldn't run. And Libby wouldn't leave her friend....so a film was the best she could do.




Whatever theory you believe in, it's still a sad, sad situation.


I still believe someone recognizes this "man," and if they haven't turned him in, hopefully they do the right thing.

 

[delaney]

After seeing all the work done by Websight on the pictures, I asked my son if you could draw on a snap chat photo.

My son said it was possible with the app. So I finally decided to weigh in on what I see in the photo of BG.

The white thing near his neck , to me, looks like a question mark. Anybody else think this? I think Libby may have been

telling us she did not know him. moo

 

[midwestseeker]

I don't know where I first heard about the incidents of indecent exposure on the Monon Trail in Indianapolis but it eventually led me to this article. I can't help but wonder if there is something going on here. I still think the one photo shows evidence of masturbation. IMO.....I know that plenty disagree. The news story, which the girls may or may not have seen, goes into how filming the person is the right thing to do. Maybe they took that to heart here. We all seem to think that this video was filmed at a distance and that is why there is so much pixelation. Perhaps the girls filmed at a distance and then thought they had time to run away. What if they turned around to run only to find another man blocking their path? I don't believe the one man in the Indy photos looks anything like BG and can't see the other well enough to make a decision. In any case, all of this is just me rambling about where my mind has been. The discussion about what would a 13 year old vs. an adult do in the situation just had me thinking again about this. This case haunts my dreams.

http://www.wthr.com/article/second-report-of-indecent-exposure-investigated-on-monon-trail

 

[Sir WiggleBottom III]

Switching gears, I'm now leaning towards an answer as to why BG was there that day, and wonder if they may have been in contact with one or both girls on SM prior to that day.

A LE guy mentioned something early on in the case about parents knowing what their kids are up to on SM/online, or something similar. It's been mentioned that Libby had a Kik account, which I didn't know much about until I stumbled upon this just earlier:

http://foreverymom.com/mom-gold/my-...&utm_medium=Susannah&utm_campaign=Kik+account

According to that article, there are no parental controls which can be applied to Kik, and like other apps it can be applied to smart devices besides phones.

Could she or they have been stalked online? Here is info about Kik from Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger





Good grief, what a nightmare for LE! I've alluded to the perp possibly using IP addresses from random public or online sources, along with a VPN or similar means to mask identity (location). All someone would have to do is use a smart TracFone, loaded up with minutes paid for with cash or with a cash card paid with cash, or other smart device, then set up a free e-mail account, then sign up for Kik. This may sound sophisticated to some, but really it is not.

As others wondered early on, were they there to meet somebody, somebody who turned out to be BG? I don't know how Kik works, but I wonder how many apps such as Kik/SC/etc. can be entwined, so images and messages appear on multiple platforms, simultaneously.

I very much want to lean towards an online predator, I can't get past tho, if the killer(s) can data mine kix ip, they certainly would know to erase cloud storage.

 

[kat913]

OK, I'm back working on this jacket again.

I've looked at most of the recent conceal and carry jacket manufacturers and BG's jacket seems to be older.
Here is a vest with a velcro closure that has a similar closure as the jacket. This is from 2009.


View attachment 114973 It's the tab at the middle of the zipper that I'm focusing on.
I believe BG bought this with the intention of using it for weapon concealment. If so, and if he is a repeat offender this may be part of his kill kit and he may not have thrown it away. It's an unusual jacket. He may be ex military.
IMO he went out that day with the intention to subdue a victim. I now believe it's highly likely there is a gun on his right side and therefore left-handed.
I wish every gun shop owner would look through their old catalogues for this jacket. This older merchandise is not all on the internet. It could be 8-20 years old. I don't believe it's a current design. I've searched. Please help sleuth for this jacket.View attachment 114980

Daae this jacket looks familiar to me as back in the late '7o's and early 80's...button down light weight windbreaker with a very thin cotton lining inside.

Like this?

 

[Bemused]

After seeing all the work done by Websight on the pictures, I asked my son if you could draw on a snap chat photo.

My son said it was possible with the app. So I finally decided to weigh in on what I see in the photo of BG.

The white thing near his neck , to me, looks like a question mark. Anybody else think this? I think Libby may have been

telling us she did not know him. moo

Ask your son if it's possible to add a question mark filter on video or only a static image, please. TIA

 

[MistyWaters]

ETA:
I never thought LE determine guilt a judge/jury do.

Yes, a judge and jury determines innocence as well. Not Guilty!

But I'm very curious by what parameters LE "clears" people. Because that indicates they are not guilty too.

And I really do wonder if "cleared" is an abbreviated form of the phrase "cleared from being a suspect"?????


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[Bemused]

Daae this jacket looks familiar to me as back in the late '7o's and early 80's...button down light weight windbreaker with a very thin cotton lining inside.

Like a Members Only type?

images.google.com and search: members only jacket

I don't know if they discontinued the style I remember, but they had epaulets and were a rather thin fabric with a slight sheen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_Only_(fashion_brand)

 

[mandy.maree]

Theres many reasons BG could have been filmed: he was in the background of a picture being taken of Abby, he was rushing at them quite rapidly,he had said or done something quite creepy, perhaps they could see a weapon on him.
Imo they didn't run because they didn't have time to and plus-they would be running into a quite isolated area with this maniac. Probably felt safer on the bridge and hoped he would pass.
It seems he was purposely filmed as LE have stated there is more that hasn't been shown/heard. If that's the case,Libby did not film him or leave record on by accident. Could well be she just had a sixth sense about him and something just felt wrong but imo he has done or said something that made them feel uneasy or threatened as he approached.

I believe things have been blurred out or maybe even things added to this BG image to hide something . Something however the girls saw which made them feel the need to film.


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[Yvettea]

I don't know where I first heard about the incidents of indecent exposure on the Monon Trail in Indianapolis but it eventually led me to this article. I can't help but wonder if there is something going on here. I still think the one photo shows evidence of masturbation. IMO.....I know that plenty disagree. The news story, which the girls may or may not have seen, goes into how filming the person is the right thing to do. Maybe they took that to heart here. We all seem to think that this video was filmed at a distance and that is why there is so much pixelation. Perhaps the girls filmed at a distance and then thought they had time to run away. What if they turned around to run only to find another man blocking their path? I don't believe the one man in the Indy photos looks anything like BG and can't see the other well enough to make a decision. In any case, all of this is just me rambling about where my mind has been. The discussion about what would a 13 year old vs. an adult do in the situation just had me thinking again about this. This case haunts my dreams.

http://www.wthr.com/article/second-report-of-indecent-exposure-investigated-on-monon-trail

This seems relevant to Abby and Libby!

I watched the video and read the article. It certainly left the impression that the right response would be to get pictures. There was no sense of urgency about running and the exposure was looked at more as a nuisance than a threat.

Good catch! This could explain why they didn't run.

 

[Lmustang89]

But wouldn’t that kick in your survival instinct to run? I’m a Psych major, so often it’s the “why,” and not always the “what,” that intrigues me.

My adult self, and my 13 yo self would react totally different in this situation...so when I run the scenarios through my mind, as to what WOULDN’T make my 13 yo self run, I draw blanks. So, like you, this is something that has often bothered me about this case, and something I have often thought about.

I’m sure Libby had her reasons, and I guess it could be something as simple as she was braver than I ever was at 13…maybe I’m over-thinking it. MOO








The red is what has always bothered me. The green is a theory many have expressed, and I guess I never really believed in.

I think I’ll take the “2 Perps” theory more seriously.

I agree with this theory with 2 perps. Easier and faster to control 2 girls with 2 people (thinking 2 men) in that short amount of time. Stun gun, knife, zip ties -possible weapons. My opinion only.

 

[kat913]

Like a Members Only type?

images.google.com and search: members only jacket

I don't know if they discontinued the style I remember, but they had epaulets and were a rather thin fabric with a slight sheen.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_Only_(fashion_brand)

Like this maybe?

 

[Bemused]

Like this maybe?View attachment 114985

Yes, I think that looks more like it. My dad wears similar throwbacks because he likes functional and affordable. Do you know a brand? My dad and uncles just love them some Sears men's department so basic, functional and affordable.

They're some kind of nylon-type outer shell.