IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #49

[azshadowwalker]

So if this was the case they were taken away and brought back to the dumping site.

That's the only logical explanation that whoever did this put them in a car imo

We had these discussions early on. In a town as small as Delphi, it is unlikely they had so many towers that you could tell they were actually moving. I believe someone posted the towers, and there were only two. I am not searching for the posts in all these threads, but they're out there, if you want to look at cell towers and how they work in small towns.

Also, the only one who ever publicly stated that they were pinging "around town" was Libby's grandfather. That article is stretching it to say LE also stated that.

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[Bird of Paradise]

"Pinging in several locations around town" could just be a lack of understanding on the families part.

I think I saw where there were a total of maybe 3 cell towers within reach of Delphi.

I highly doubt they had information as early as they say detailing pings from DIFFERENT cell towers which would indicate movement. What was probably interpreted incorrectly, was that they confirmed her cell phone was pinged from at least one of them. The family probably (wrongly) assumed that since it was pinging all the time, that the phone was moving which it probably wasn't.

JMO

See my post above for quote

 

[Deleted member 155000]

So if this was the case they were taken away and brought back to the dumping site.

That's the only logical explanation that whoever did this put them in a car imo

Another possibility is the phones were there the whole time but they picked up different towers depending on where they were at in the park.

I've seen tower maps before and sometimes there's even the possibility of overlap. Meaning the phones could ping more than one tower from the same location if that location was somewhere in between the two.

If they had different providers, maybe Libby's phone picked up a different one than Abby's too.

Anyone know what service provider they had? We might be able to find the tower locations to look into this.


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[expatCanada]

If I have 'location services" on, it will keep pinging even if I'm just sitting in the kitchen. It runs my battery down. IF one tower is busy, it will try and find another one to ping and so on over and over and over.

So if this was the case they were taken away and brought back to the dumping site.

That's the only logical explanation that whoever did this put them in a car imo

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

http://fox59.com/2017/04/13/bill-re...arrested-for-felonies-goes-to-governors-desk/

Bill to have DNA samples run on all felony arrests.
Once probable cause is established, samples will be run.

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[asyousay]

We had these discussions early on. In a town as small as Delphi, it is unlikely they had so many towers that you could tell they were actually moving. I believe someone posted the towers, and there were only two. I am not searching for the posts in all these threads, but they're out there, if you want to look at cell towers and how they work in small towns.

Also, the only one who ever publicly stated that they were pinging "around town" was Libby's grandfather. That article is stretching it to say LE also stated that.

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I take your word for it and thank you for explaining

 

[expatCanada]

Finally

http://fox59.com/2017/04/13/bill-re...arrested-for-felonies-goes-to-governors-desk/

Bill to have DNA samples run on all felony arrests.
Once probable cause is established, samples will be run.

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[ImnoSherlock]

http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

[FONT=&amp]According to police and family members, the girls phones pinged in multiple locations but were shut off shortly after they were reported missing.[/FONT]

So their phones were turned off shortly after they were reported missing...hmmmm. Could be something,could be nothing.I imagine the mother's concern so maybe the sheriff or whoever may have told her "we'll try pinging their phone's",mom talks to someone who she called or called her to see about the children,such as where they might be or update....moms contact calls accomplice to turn the phones off? That seems plausible to me.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I was imagining something more along these lines earlier in the thread.

Someone who was angry...maybe throw in a little alcohol and a little mental instability...and things escalate beyond what was originally planned.

A couple things give me pause. The reporter who mentioned clothes in the water. And the contents of the scanner thread which I can't refer to specifically but people could review if they haven't yet.


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[Jax49]

I was imagining something more along these lines earlier in the thread.

Someone who was angry...maybe throw in a little alcohol and a little mental instability...and things escalate beyond what was originally planned.

A couple things give me pause. The reporter who mentioned clothes in the water. And the contents of the scanner thread which I can't refer to specifically but people could review if they haven't yet.


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If anyone missed the scanner thread they should definitely read it. moo

 

[Bemused]

I would hope not, but given the fact that they were found on his land, and statistically, that already puts him strongly on their radar, I would think it wouldn't take much at all to get that SW, and would even say that, IMO, not searching his entire physical property during the course of the investigation would have seemed less-than-thorough. I don't know what the odds are of murder victims being found on a somewhat remote, private property and the property owner not being involved, but I'd imagine they are low.(which is partly, I assume, why you hold to your theory, and also why I can't yet discard the possibility)

The girls being found on his property is the last thing that raised a red flag for me because I initially found him to be a harmless old guy and didn't think he was involved. I think his shock I saw in interviews is genuine, absolutely.

It's everything else that does make me think he's the most likely person. If I isolate any single statement or incident, they do not mean much, but when I see more things in the pro than con columns, the scales tipped a long time ago for me. If anything, they continue to tip very much to one side, particularly given LE has yet to publicly clear RL.

MOO

 

[Matlacha]

That blogger has zero inside information, I have read his tripe. Utter waste of time.

Wasn't vouching for the blogger, who says upfront he is speculating and may be wrong. I only said that his view of the case fits with the four bits of evidence I mentioned.

 

[asyousay]

I was imagining something more along these lines earlier in the thread.

Someone who was angry...maybe throw in a little alcohol and a little mental instability...and things escalate beyond what was originally planned.

A couple things give me pause. The reporter who mentioned clothes in the water. And the contents of the scanner thread which I can't refer to specifically but people could review if they haven't yet.


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I can't see past a SA as the crime to me screams it as vile as it sounds.


And I don't see anybody getting that angry that they would willingly kill two teenagers. And these girls were not bolshy girls , even Abby's friends have all said how quiet she was was.

So I don't buy them verbally abusing anybody at all.

IMO

 

[skibaboo]

"Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said crews began canvassing the area and tried pinging the girls' cell phones into the evening hours but had no success in finding them. The sheriff said they believed the girls' phones were either dead or turned off. "

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/timeline-13-year-old-girls-go-missing-bodies-found

Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!

Cell phones, plural. Could be a mistake I guess. That has always got me wondering though, how MP knew they were pinging around town because I don't think LE would have gotten that info that fast.

:loveyou:

 

[Burnt Toast]

I would hope not, but given the fact that they were found on his land, and statistically, that already puts him strongly on their radar, I would think it wouldn't take much at all to get that SW, and would even say that, IMO, not searching his entire physical property during the course of the investigation would have seemed less-than-thorough. I don't know what the odds are of murder victims being found on a somewhat remote, private property and the property owner not being involved, but I'd imagine they are low.(which is partly, I assume, why you hold to your theory, and also why I can't yet discard the possibility)

they said the day of the search that they were there as a result of "tips" and "information" that came in during the course of their investigation.

 

[Madhom]

RE: the phones 'pinging around town.' From the little research I did a few weeks ago, it seems a phone in shallow water, especially water running over top of it, could scramble a cell signal, particularly the 'strength' with which it hits a tower, making it seem as though the phone is in different places. So IF it did 'ping all over town' that could be why. Then after a while in the water, the battery dies or the water damage shuts down the phone. Maybe.

ETA: my initial thoughts on the quick involvement of the FBI was that they found the phone(s) in the water and needed that expertise to extract data from a water logged phone. Though info since then may contradict that timeline.

 

[Bemused]

Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!

Cell phones, plural. Could be a mistake I guess. That has always got me wondering though, how MP knew they were pinging around town because I don't think LE would have gotten that info that fast.

:loveyou:

If I am not mistaken, I think LE can get a rush on info from the provider when there may be a possibility of abduction.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I can't see past a SA as the crime to me screams it as vile as it sounds.


And I don't see anybody getting that angry that they would willingly kill two teenagers. And these girls were not bolshy girls , even Abby's friends have all said how quiet she was was.

So I don't buy them verbally abusing anybody at all.

IMO

Yeah. I tend to unfortunately lean toward SA as motivation as well.

But there's plenty of examples of rage crimes over much less--people who shoot someone bc of a confrontation over talking while watching a movie, over a parking space, etc.

It's the other pieces--the reporter's claim about the clothes as well as the scanner thread--that make me lean more toward SA. Sadly.


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[AmateurAnalyst73]

And, if I imagine RL as being BG, this is almost exactly the way I imagine it might have happened, as well.My problem is that A)I don't think RL is BG, and B) the "down the hill" sounds very calm, to me. Not panicked, not enraged. Just matter-of-fact, and assured.

I do this on my phone so I can't see all your questions unless I write them down.

Now, though, I'm beginning to 2nd guess my theory. A bad habit of mine.

I can visualize this scenario perfectly in my mind and I'm always bewildered why others can't see it too. But......my brain works differently than most. I get from A
to Z and know exactly how I got there but I don't always "show my work" in between.

Yes, I'm imagining him being angry and having a burr under his saddle.
Why? Because he's an old fart and maybe they were on his land. Maybe they were checking out the cemetary, maybe they gave him a hard time. Maybe he'd been having a "cocktail" and emotions are closer to the surface, than normal.

Maybe he was yelling at them while they skedaddled up the bridge. Maybe they were laughing and that made him angrier. Maybe they were mocking him.

Incensed, maybe he thought the girls were being disrespectful.
Maybe he gets on the bridge and goes after them his anger still not dissapating.

Libby may have been nervous or maybe she thought filming him would halt him in his tracks. No, he kept on muttering under his breath.

He gets up to them and now the girls are scared. It's possible he lost his balance, leaned into Abby and over the side she went.

Both stunned, he and Libby run down the hill to see if her friend
was ok. Let's say she's not. It's apparent she has broken some bones. She's unconscious.

It's his fault. He knows it and her friend knows it. He has been drinking. He carries her over the creek w/ Libby right behind.

He doesn't know what to do.
He's in a panic. Libby is looking bad.
And then....maybe he hurts Libby.
She's a big girl. I can't help but think she's put up a heck of a fight inflaming him more.

They're both hurt and he leaves them there and takes off in his vehicle until he can clear his mind.
He comes home around 6:30 and finds that there's a search for the girls.

Early in the a.m. maybe he goes where he left them and stages the scene to make it look like a SK had done it. He can't drag both girls somewhere else as they are too heavy. He leaves them there.

Ok. Hope I addressed your questions. This is sheer fiction with maybe a little truth sprinkled in. It makes sense to me but that's probably the problem. I'm the only one who sees it.



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[skibaboo]

We had these discussions early on. In a town as small as Delphi, it is unlikely they had so many towers that you could tell they were actually moving. I believe someone posted the towers, and there were only two. I am not searching for the posts in all these threads, but they're out there, if you want to look at cell towers and how they work in small towns.

Also, the only one who ever publicly stated that they were pinging "around town" was Libby's grandfather. That article is stretching it to say LE also stated that.

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That may have been me. Cell Towers are on the Case Map https://drive.google.com/open?id=195lcn7G7VGC-TkdJirxwNf6o9xM&usp=sharing