IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #50

[Deleted member 155000]

I've been thinking a lot about how BG could have known the girls (or whomever) were at the park/bridge...

I've read all 50 of these threads. I still believe that BG is a hunter (as I previously supposed) such as a big game hunter/deer hunter. I also believe the techniques and methodology he applied to hunting can be possibly be applied to how he found, trapped, and murdered the girls. How do hunters (I've done copious amounts of research because I am no hunter and no one I know is one, either) sometimes hunt? By using Trail cams.

Hunters use trail cams and these things are apperantly very easily set up and camouflaged and can be accessed by remote or by an app on the phone. These cams can monitor scenery in real time-- could BG installed a trail cam on a tree, or on a large rock? And removed it after the murders? It would at least make sense regarding how he knew they were there, or how he knew how much privacy he'd have...

I've seen talk of trail cams in general by maybe LE or the Monan High Park, but not a discussion about BG potentially setting one or more up for himself? As hunters do?

Great question!


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[Burnt Toast]

I don't think I've seen that one. There was another older guy who was right after RL in one of the video interviews. He's at his house and I'm almost positive he was a neighbor. I mentioned him a few minutes ago in a post reply- the one who mentioned his daughter used to hike the trails and had seen some shady (or scruffy? Something like that) guys a few times.


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yes i remember him. i believe he lives near by. he s sitting down and wears glasses. i believe his interview was around the time of the search at RL's.

 

[No it's not]

He gave interviews so still off limits to mention?

http://www.wthr.com/article/police-search-home-property-of-man-where-delphi-teens-were-found

You can always ask a moderator prior to posting. That's the safest way.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[Jax49]

I have never heard the name Roy Kronk. I've only seen all the media around her mom's trial. So let's hope a suspect is found and charged so the main name most associated with this Delphi crime is primarily that of the guilty (or at least criminally charged) party!


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O/T You've probably just forgotten the name. He was the meter reader who discovered the body and was a large part of the case. The defense tried to accuse him of killing her. moo

 

[MistyWaters]

FTR: all LE has said was A volunteer found the bodies. Let's quit the rumors per TOS.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...arrant-served-Indiana-home-teens-murders.html

The victims were found at 12:15pm on Tuesday about three-quarters of a mile upstream from the bridge, police said. A volunteer searching for the girls found their bodies on private property about 50-60 feet from the water.
Their cause of death and nature of injuries were not released.




Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...Indiana-home-teens-murders.html#ixzz4eSr2WxIK
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

And as I recall, the search was organized with the fire station serving as the base? Therefore the searcher who found the body would've been assigned a specific area to search.

An organized search seems like a great philosophy because it protects people who have the misfortune of discovering a body from liability based on false assumptions.

Totally off topic but on that note, it always amazes me on some cases how people criticize family members for not searching.


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[Colton]

I've been thinking a lot about how BG could have known the girls (or whomever) were at the park/bridge...

I've read all 50 of these threads. I still believe that BG is a hunter (as I previously supposed) such as a big game hunter/deer hunter. I also believe the techniques and methodology he applied to hunting can be possibly be applied to how he found, trapped, and murdered the girls. How do hunters (I've done copious amounts of research because I am no hunter and no one I know is one, either) sometimes hunt? By using Trail cams.

Hunters use trail cams and these things are apperantly very easily set up and camouflaged and can be accessed by remote or by an app on the phone. These cams can monitor scenery in real time-- could BG installed a trail cam on a tree, or on a large rock? And removed it after the murders? It would at least make sense regarding how he knew they were there, or how he knew how much privacy he'd have...

I've seen talk of trail cams in general by maybe LE or the Monan High Park, but not a discussion about BG potentially setting one or more up for himself? As hunters do?

I deer hunted in the past. It takes an incredible amount of patience. Some will sit in the woods against a tree for many hours without success. Not sure about the trail cam, but it would make sense because how else would he know the trail was clear. It's strange no other hikers saw him that day. IMO, he was off the trail the entire time up until he saw the two girls.

 

[tlcya]

Members can discuss the statements made by persons who have been interviewed in MSM. Members may not sleuth them.

 

[Evania]

Happy Easter fellow Web Sleuthers! I couldn't help but think of the families of these dear girls often today, and how this was their first without them...I hope they were surrounded by a lot of love.

I saw another poster mention something about the dates of Lyric and Elizabeth's murders and Abby and Libby's and questioning whether they could be connected to the MS13 gang. What are everyone's thoughts on whether that is the case? I keep going back to the heavy FBI presence early on.

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[Deleted member 155000]

Happy Easter fellow Web Sleuthers! I couldn't help but think of the families of these dear girls often today, and how this was their first without them...I hope they were surrounded by a lot of love.

I saw another poster mention something about the dates of Lyric and Elizabeth's murders and Abby and Libby's and questioning whether they could be connected to the MS13 gang. What are everyone's thoughts on whether that is the case? I keep going back to the heavy FBI presence early on.

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I looked into it, but BG's photo along with the very rural setting, made me think it's *probably* not.

I acknowledge that the unlikely sometimes ends up being true...but in my humble opinion, the odds of it being this gang is low.


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[Jo in Calif]

ITA with the PO in this statement @1:28 on this video.
"You cant get there unless you walk there. Someone had to be walking with them or something."
IMO Those girls walked there, no one was carried, killed there and not moved.

[video=youtube;Jb-eOkWFf2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb-eOkWFf2M&app=desktop[/video]

 

[No it's not]

ITA with the PO in this statement @1:28 on this video.
"You cant get there unless you walk there. Someone had to be walking with them or something."
IMO Those girls walked there, no one was carried, killed there and not moved.

[video=youtube;Jb-eOkWFf2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb-eOkWFf2M&app=desktop[/video]

That statement bothered me from the beginning. Not insinuating this thought, but it almost sounds like he is surprised they made it to that spot, like they were left somewhere else?

All IMO

-Nin

 

[tbex353]

I can't help but notice there are some similarities with the West Memphis 3 murders as well. If you believe the WM3 are innocent, as I do, the killer is still out there somewhere. This crime was also a multiple victim murder, though this was 3 male juveniles, but they were abducted during daylight hours and their bodies were found in a public park-type area (Robin Hood Hills) in a drainage canal, near a major freeway.

Bringing this old post forward ... don't remember if this is the latest version

This has been unsolved long enough that I'd like to try something different, and I hope that everyone here will pitch in and add to the list.

I believe there is a possibility that the person who did this also murdered Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins in Evansdale Iowa on July 13, 2012. If we could make a list of facts that are common in both sets of murders, that might help us understand the man behind this. I'll start the list:

• two girls aged 8 and 10, and two other girls aged 13 and 14, abducted five years apart
• both occurred on the 13th day of the month: Friday July 13, 2012 and Monday, Feb 13, 2017
• girls were at local parks, but in an area where they were separated from other visitors
• abductions occurred shortly after noon
• girl's bodies were found 50 feet from a slow river / creek
• at least one of each set of girls was an avid online communicator
• at least one of each set lived part time with a grandparent
• body locations are fishing/hunting/outdoorsman spots
• body locations suggest that the suspect has a familiarity with the area surrounding the park
• two set of girls have similar body types
• State Rd 218 exists very close to both murders, perhaps less than a mile from 4 lane highways
• both tiny rural towns.
• Small, inexperienced (in major crimes) police force
• Crimes both occurred in daylight hours (afternoon)
• "Bridges" exist at both locations.
• Weichman Pig dealing operations exist in both areas: company has location near Evansdale, IA and as of 2015 located in Delphi, IN
• Adding dates of birthdays and years may add up to 32 depending on how you do it. The number has a lot of negativity to it from history.
• Transco Railway products/services exist at both locations or very close (Logansport).
• "Rails to Trails" is an active org in both locations.
• Trails are located at both Monon High Bridge in Delphi and Meyers Lake in Evansdale (Evansdale Nature Trail/Cedar Valley Nature Trail)
• Geocaches hidden at Monon High Bridge, Meyers Lake and Seven Bridges
• The dates are also mirror images ... 7.13.12 and 2.13.17

I believe both are fairly close to meat packing places
With the Iowa case, everyone assumed that it was someone local, but the fact that their bodies were found 20 miles away at Seven Bridges Park suggests that someone knows the bigger fishing and hunting geography.

 

[antechinusRAWR]

RSBM

Some of the items I have no knowledge or comments to make but can address the following with my opinions:

1 This hasn't been firmly established. We do not know time of death or even whether they were kidnapped by vehicle from under the bridge immediately and brought back later.

2. These three witnesses should be looked at extremely closely as being the closest in time to the 02.07 and 0230 events AFAWK

3. I have already mentioned the possibility of a boat. But nobody has thought that an option. I don't know why. After all, they brought a dive boat ( don't think it was needed in the end) to the crime scene so the creek must be thought to be navigable.

5. Was the crime scene clean? Could this mean the girls were taken elsewhere, then returned ? Otherwise, I do not know why they weren't found sooner. Number 1 is also relevant here and LE will know the answer to this.

Your points are very well thought out. Sorry I have no valid input on the rest and I think you have the scanner response already.

AJMO

BBM

I'm late as always so this may have been addressed already, but just in case it hasn't ... I agree it hasn't been firmly established - very little has been, but there are several reasons that make me surmise that this crime was fast, & there was no secondary scene. All of my reasons have been covered repeatedly in earlier threads so rather than type another long, detailed post & have the thread lock on me again, I'll just link the following.

This is in reference to point 1 which was a reply to this statement from Nightowl

1) Short time window to commit crime as you stated.

This is a statement from ISP Sergeant Kim Riley that seems to confirm that the crime was committed quickly

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2017/02/15/police-tracking-down-100s-tips/97940616/

“Even if we would have put an Amber Alert out, it wouldn’t have done this case any good,” Riley said. “The short period of time and the location where the bodies were found, it would not have helped us in finding them," he explained”

Re point 3, the possibility of a boat came up as a theory during the first week on other sites but I can't recall if it was covered here too. There were even people who insisted they could see a raft under the bridge in earlier vids from the area & that it "must" have been left there by the killer.

It was very obviously just debris from the bridge though - the safety fences that were once on the side platforms have all fallen off & most are still on the ground beneath the bridge.

Some even insisted the girls were abducted on "the raft" & the killer rowed himself & 2 captives to the crime scene, against the current, on a small rickety wooden platform.

I guess it's possible he had a real dingy or kayak at the scene & used it to flee afterwards, but personally I find it really unlikely because : the creek itself is the most exposed route of exit in that area. There are many, many properties along the banks, there are nearby homes (far, far closer than RL's), there are also walking trails all within a very short distance of the creek - it's visible at many points. Whether he chose to go upstream or downstream there are also other bridges, including footbridges - all of these places offer opportunities for witnesses to see him & if he was seen he'd be remembered because several people have said that while the creek is used for kayaking in warmer months, it's extremely unusual to see anyone doing it in February.

So yeah, it's certainly possible, but there are far more opportunities for concealment & less chance of exposure if you exit by walking through the trees. There are definitely unofficial paths on the crime scene side of the creek & it's possible they extend far upstream beyond RL's. If he went downstream, even if he kept off the paths, it's not that far to the Hoosier Heartland. It wouldn't be difficult to walk all the way back, concealed in the woods & then just inconspicuously head onto the roads & paths heading back into town once you got some distance between yourself & the crime scene (which no-one even knew was a crime scene for almost 24hrs)

All it would take is keeping off the main trails & you could easily make it back to a home or car unseen.



On that note, back in week 1 or week 2, I saw someone relatively local suggest that the bulkiness of BG's jacket was probably a blanket that he brought with him to throw over barbed wire fences & speed his escape through unoccupied sections of private property.

Who knows if it's true, but it certainly stopped me in my tracks when I read it.

 

[MistyWaters]

.............



On that note, back in week 1 or week 2, I saw someone relatively local suggest that the bulkiness of BG's jacket was probably a blanket that he brought with him to throw over barbed wire fences & speed his escape through unoccupied sections of private property.

Who knows if it's true, but it certainly stopped me in my tracks when I read it.

In response to your comment above, can't help but chuckle at childhood memories but if BG needed a blanket to efficiently navigate through barb wire fences he's not of authentic rural origin. It's a genetic ability, definitely no blanket required. They grasp the wire and slide through the centre in a movement similar to getting on or off a horse. Not over the top, owwie yes that would hurt


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[Lilowlet]

BBM

I'm late as always so this may have been addressed already, but just in case it hasn't ... I agree it hasn't been firmly established - very little has been, but there are several reasons that make me surmise that this crime was fast, & there was no secondary scene. All of my reasons have been covered repeatedly in earlier threads so rather than type another long, detailed post & have the thread lock on me again, I'll just link the following.

This is in reference to point 1 which was a reply to this statement from Nightowl




This is a statement from ISP Sergeant Kim Riley that seems to confirm that the crime was committed quickly

http://www.jconline.com/story/news/crime/2017/02/15/police-tracking-down-100s-tips/97940616/




Re point 3, the possibility of a boat came up as a theory during the first week on other sites but I can't recall if it was covered here too. There were even people who insisted they could see a raft under the bridge in earlier vids from the area & that it "must" have been left there by the killer.

It was very obviously just debris from the bridge though - the safety fences that were once on the side platforms have all fallen off & most are still on the ground beneath the bridge.

Some even insisted the girls were abducted on "the raft" & the killer rowed himself & 2 captives to the crime scene, against the current, on a small rickety wooden platform.

I guess it's possible he had a real dingy or kayak at the scene & used it to flee afterwards, but personally I find it really unlikely because : the creek itself is the most exposed route of exit in that area. There are many, many properties along the banks, there are nearby homes (far, far closer than RL's), there are also walking trails all within a very short distance of the creek - it's visible at many points. Whether he chose to go upstream or downstream there are also other bridges, including footbridges - all of these places offer opportunities for witnesses to see him & if he was seen he'd be remembered because several people have said that while the creek is used for kayaking in warmer months, it's extremely unusual to see anyone doing it in February.

So yeah, it's certainly possible, but there are far more opportunities for concealment & less chance of exposure if you exit by walking through the trees. There are definitely unofficial paths on the crime scene side of the creek & it's possible they extend far upstream beyond RL's. If he went downstream, even if he kept off the paths, it's not that far to the Hoosier Heartland. It wouldn't be difficult to walk all the way back, concealed in the woods & then just inconspicuously head onto the roads & paths heading back into town once you got some distance between yourself & the crime scene (which no-one even knew was a crime scene for almost 24hrs)

All it would take is keeping off the main trails & you could easily make it back to a home or car unseen.



On that note, back in week 1 or week 2, I saw someone relatively local suggest that the bulkiness of BG's jacket was probably a blanket that he brought with him to throw over barbed wire fences & speed his escape through unoccupied sections of private property.

Who knows if it's true, but it certainly stopped me in my tracks when I read it.

At one point I thought he might have said screw it and just plain waded the creek then swam till he felt far enough and clear enough to take off through the woods or etc again. Maybe so there would be no tracks as to were he went when he left. And I don't think, but I'm not sure, that if dogs were brought at any point they'd be able to sniff that out. But my issue with this is timing and the heli. Anyway I like your post, the raft idea is creepy.imoo always

 

[Doghairrules]

Take a break. Use that time to remember why you are here following this case.

HINT: The answer is not to right fight or bicker.

I love this expression! "Right fight."


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[AmateurAnalyst73]

Someone asked something to the effect of "why haven't reporters asked neighbors about RL's character?". IMO, doing so would make it seem like he's on trial, or that LE has told MSM something about RL's status as a possible suspect. IF and WHEN charges are filed, be they against RL or anyone else, then would be the appropriate time to interview neighbors about someone's character. Not before. IMO

 

[whiskers]

Although I don't think M-13 had anything to do with this case, I will say they are spreading out to rural areas. A 17-year old was recently beheaded by M-13 gang members and it happened in a rural, mountainous area.

 

[Razz]

About RL? Yes he will forever linked to them since their bodies were found on his land/farm. No getting around that.

IMO he's getting the same treatment as Roy Kronk who found Caylee's remains.

But didn't Mr. Kronk's son testify
against his Dad? Lots of bad karma in that trial.

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[Colton]

If it did take place quickly hopefully he made a mistake along the way. Better chance he left DNA evidence behind.