IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

[Bird of Paradise]

Thanks. Hard to believe the accuracy of that timeline, though, as according to the following site, sunset was 6:20 pm and twilight ended at 6:50 pm. Having just gotten called at 5:30, it wouldn't allow much time for a search. I'm astonished that LE said, at midnight, that the only risk was exposure. That risk would be significant in mid-February, as the girls went out lightly dressed at midday and could have fallen in the creek.

https://sunrise-sunset.org/us/delphi-in/2017/2

BBM
That comment was based on what family members told them.
If you haven't already been to the scanner thread, there may be useful information there.

 

[Yvettea]

Thanks. Hard to believe the accuracy of that timeline, though, as according to the following site, sunset was 6:20 pm and twilight ended at 6:50 pm. Having just gotten called at 5:30, it wouldn't allow much time for a search. I'm astonished that LE said, at midnight, that the only risk was exposure. That risk would be significant in mid-February, as the girls went out lightly dressed at midday and could have fallen in the creek.

https://sunrise-sunset.org/us/delphi-in/2017/2

12 a.m. Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby says in a news release that there is no reason to suspect foul play or to believe the girls are in immediate danger. The biggest concern is exposure to the elements.
This is my impression only, but I always had the sense that the county sheriff made the announcement at midnight when they called off the search due to the darkness. Again that is my impression

 

[cloudajo]

Much more about Abby and Libby at link below.

==
Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German had a bond stronger than most.

A rare mid-February Monday off from school prompted the pair to do what any teenage friends would do the day before: They had a sleepover.

The girls shared a variety of interests; both loved art, both enjoyed sports and both played alto sax in the Delphi Community Middle School band.

Abby brought her big box of arts and crafts over to Libby’s house and sprawled them across the floor of Libby’s room on that Sunday night. The girls painted photos of nature on canvases as they giggled and shared intimate secrets like most young girls do.

Earlier that day, the two had been in the back yard practicing their softball swing in excited anticipation of the upcoming season.

Libby, 14, had convinced Abby, 13, to join her on the team this year.

The next day was an unseasonably warm day and the girls went out to enjoy another one of their shared hobbies by taking photos of one of their favorite places: The Monon High Bridge, Delphi’s tallest scenic attraction.

This was a bond that not even a killer could break.

http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/delphi-daughters-the-untold-story-of-abby-libby

 

[curiousjo]

My opinion on this case- RL involved - He lied about his whereabouts (without reason if innocent) & he knows the area. More people involved. They came prepared. Locals. Kidnapped them, used car to move to secure site. Not sure how they snuck them back in to cemetery, but it's his land so there ya go... Terrible! I hope Libby's pictures/voice tape will lead to their arrest soon.

 

[J Lee]

My opinion on this case- RL involved - He lied about his whereabouts (without reason if innocent) & he knows the area. More people involved. They came prepared. Locals. Kidnapped them, used car to move to secure site. Not sure how they snuck them back in to cemetery, but it's his land so there ya go... Terrible! I hope Libby's pictures/voice tape will lead to their arrest soon.

Curious...
If RL was the killer, Why would he return to his OWN property to dispose of the bodies?

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[Burnt Toast]

I disagree and JMO:

http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/probable-cause.html

Probable cause refers to the amount and quality of information required to arrest someone, to search or seize private property in many cases, or to charge someone with a crime. Probable cause to arrest, search, or seize property exists when facts and circumstances known to the police officer would lead a reasonable person to believe:

• that the person to be arrested has committed a crime;
• that the place to be searched was the scene of a crime;
• that the place to be searched contains evidence of a crime; and/or
• that property to be seized is contraband, stolen, or constitutes evidence of a crime.

i would not consider the inside of RL's house the scene of a crime.

 

[Elley Mae]

Right, I was working on permissible topics and misstated the overall. Sorry.

You should have that eye twitch looked at.



Jk

 

[Jabarn]

Thanks. Hard to believe the accuracy of that timeline, though, as according to the following site, sunset was 6:20 pm and twilight ended at 6:50 pm. Having just gotten called at 5:30, it wouldn't allow much time for a search. I'm astonished that LE said, at midnight, that the only risk was exposure. That risk would be significant in mid-February, as the girls went out lightly dressed at midday and could have fallen in the creek.

https://sunrise-sunset.org/us/delphi-in/2017/2

To be fair, Delphi is a small town. No way any one in the local law enforcement, the girls' families, and now the world, as this case has gained attention, could have predicted on the night of February 13, 2017, the girls would be found dead the next day.

The night before the girls were found, all anyone could know is the girls hadn't gone to the pickup spot. The search began immediately, and the concern from Abby's mom was wondering when they ate last.

 

[Yvettea]

Does anyone have the link to Libby's online pictures? I could only see a few but I would like to see them again if possible.

Also, has anyone seen any of Libby's video online?

ETA: i'm referring to video shot before that day.

 

[GangaMa]

Something like that. I continue to contemplate that they "went over every inch of his property" the 14th and 15th. Then came back on 3/10, well after anything might have been discarded and searched across the street around his pickup and the old barn there and arrested him for having access to his pickup and other violations which had occurred on 2/13 and 2/27. Then did not go back to search his home and outbuildings as well as the field and woods until 3/17, well after he was gone.
Wouldn't they have searched his outbuildings when they searched his land? He had been gone during the abduction and possibly the murders so good chance someone might have been in his buildings he didn't know about. In fact I think if he had refused to let them search they would have gotten a SW right then. It's unbelievable to me they would not have searched there on 2/14.
Where did he park the pickup prior to 3/10? Was that truck showing up a new thing?
Did they have to get a SW to search on the Mears farm on 3/10 and again on 3/17? Just curious.
When would they have reviewed the surveillance video from the transfer station and known who was there on 2/13? Did it take 3 weeks? With all those LEO working the case? I don't want to think they dropped any balls or were caught up in beaurocracy like taking 3 weeks to get a subpoena to view who discarded trash that day. In any case he was there before they were even dropped off so it was not even connected. Still, if it was a big deal, it happened over 3 weeks before they busted him. Doesn't make sense.
Wouldn't it be difficult to use anything they found on 3/17 against him in court since he had been removed from the property for a week prior? Someone had a week, knowing he was gone to come there and plant evidence.
LE did not have to remove him to the county jail just to search his place. They could have done that any time. But they came back over a month after the murders. With the media. Did they have surveillance planted there, waiting for someone to show up? Is that what the odd dates are about? Someone who had been driving his pickup? If I'm not supposed to have access to a vehicle and state police are combing my property I might ask a friend to come get my truck. Maybe they knew he had a pickup but were waiting for it to come back? Or maybe someone used it all the time and they knew that.
Could they have done this based on SM and people who thought RL also wears a hoodie and a cap? They have incredible voice recognition technology, approaching that of a fingerprint or DNA, using a mapping system that connects voice to anatomical features totally unique to every person. It does NOT require someone to say DTH to match.
Or were they grasping at straws by finally returning to RL?
One last thing, what's up with the thing his Atty filed on 3/3? Then removed it? Had they been planning this with RL? Or was he just being proactive since he knew they were aware of his violations?
My feeling is that it has more to do with the property than RL. Or with someone he knows. What was the quote, We do not consider him a suspect but he is still part of this investigation?

You raise good points. One reason it's hard to keep a logical and straight-line train of thought about this case is that so many little things trip you as you mentally move from one timeline minute to the next. There are SO many things that either don't make any sense or don't have any data (like what time their ride showed up and where), small points as they may be, that they almost stop you in your thought process and force you to "clear them up" before you go any further. But you can't clear any of them,and so you start all over again. It's a little like fighting off nasty geese while trying to get up the drive to the mailbox. And not get irritated.
MOO.

 

[Yvettea]

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-missing-after-being-dropped-off-to-go-hiking

Crews searched for the missing teens into the night, but because of the dark, the search was slowed around midnight. Crews will regroup and continue their search efforts first thing in the morning.

Also in the video at the link it says the searchers began to regroup at 5am.

 

[JLSChook]

Have a great night, all. Good conversations again today.

Hopefully tomorrow will be the day where an arrest is made and this :censored: will be brought to justice.

Tomorrow. It has to be tomorrow.

:rose: :rose:

 

[curiousjo]

Curious...
If RL was the killer, Why would he return to his OWN property to dispose of the bodies?

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Idk. Good question. I heard he may have been at the dump at one point that day. So maybe that was initial plan, but it didn't work out. His land was easier at night. And it was a cemetery. Just terrible!

 

[eastcoasterinco]

My opinion on this case- RL involved - He lied about his whereabouts (without reason if innocent) & he knows the area. More people involved. They came prepared. Locals. Kidnapped them, used car to move to secure site. Not sure how they snuck them back in to cemetery, but it's his land so there ya go... Terrible! I hope Libby's pictures/voice tape will lead to their arrest soon.

Just to play devils advocate here, imo the parole violation(s) would certainly be a reason to lie about his whereabouts. A good reason? Not imo, look at the mess he's in now.

But, addiction is addiction, and it's possible he thought lying would keep him out of jail and able to drink.

Imo


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[Jax49]

Idk. Good question. I heard he may have been at the dump at one point that day. So maybe that was initial plan, but it didn't work out. His land was easier at night. And it was a cemetery. Just terrible!

RL was at the dump about noon; before the girls were dropped off.

 

[Peace777]

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...-missing-after-being-dropped-off-to-go-hiking

Crews searched for the missing teens into the night, but because of the dark, the search was slowed around midnight. Crews will regroup and continue their search efforts first thing in the morning.

Also in the video at the link it says the searchers began to regroup at 5am.

Still puzzled why LG and AW weren't found in the woods on the 1st search (over 8 hr. search). This makes me think they were taken somewhere else (hidden possibly) then brought back to where their bodies were found. JMO

 

[Tulessa]

Just to play devils advocate here, imo the parole violation(s) would certainly be a reason to lie about his whereabouts. A good reason? Not imo, look at the mess he's in now.

But, addiction is addiction, and it's possible he thought lying would keep him out of jail and able to drink.

Imo


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This! ^^^

 

[cluciano63]

I think if anything was found inside RL's home linking him to the girls, it would be a much bigger deal than if some clue was found elsewhere on his property.

But anyway, I think his only involvement is the unfortunate location of the girls.

 

[J Lee]

Still puzzled why LG and AW weren't found in the woods on the 1st search (over 8 hr. search). This makes me think they were taken somewhere else (hidden possibly) then brought back to where their bodies were found. JMO

It's possible. But it would take huge set of brass balls to return to the scene of the crime.
So many plausible theories that it just boggles the mind.

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[expatCanada]

What other people? Are you suggesting random other people that we have no clue about lived or worked there? TIA ... where did that come from? JMO...

Right, random searches are a condition of probation. But he can't waive other people's rights. So LE would want a search warrant for the property in case other people stayed there, left property there, etc. LE is not going to want to rely on his DUI deal when collecting evidence related to a double homicide. Particularly when it's so easy to get a SW for the location where a body was found.