IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

[No it's not]

Just to play devils advocate here, imo the parole violation(s) would certainly be a reason to lie about his whereabouts. A good reason? Not imo, look at the mess he's in now.

But, addiction is addiction, and it's possible he thought lying would keep him out of jail and able to drink.

Imo


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Probation violation, not parole. Yes, I agree.

-Nin

 

[Yvettea]

Still puzzled why LG and AW weren't found in the woods on the 1st search (over 8 hr. search). This makes me think they were taken somewhere else (hidden possibly) then brought back to where their bodies were found. JMO

They had at most six hours to search Monday evening (the police were called at 5:30) by then it was dark.

Even though most searchers left at midnight there were some that stayed on throughout the night making it risky to bring someone back before the search renews at 5 AM.

 

[No it's not]

Does anyone have the link to Libby's online pictures? I could only see a few but I would like to see them again if possible.

Also, has anyone seen any of Libby's video online?

ETA: i'm referring to video shot before that day.

This one?

https://www.instagram.com/photography_by.liberty/

 

[J Lee]

They had at most six hours to search Monday evening (the police were called at 5:30) by then it was dark.

Even though most searchers left at midnight there were some that stayed on throughout the night making it risky to bring someone back before the search renews at 5 AM.

I agree.
Very risky returning to the scene of the crime. EXTREMELY risky bringing back TWO bodies to the scene of the crime.

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[Yvettea]

This one?

https://www.instagram.com/photography_by.liberty/

Thank you. I can see 15 photographs at this link and what I noticed is they are either very close up or distant, no medium range photographs. So I'm thinking about the video she shot and remembering the police said the subject was far away. So maybe, as some have already suggested, Libby was shooting a video of the expense of the bridge not intending BG as the subject. Could it be that Libby agreed to shoot pictures and video of the bridge as a part of the effort to save the bridge? Could she have somehow contacted the BG that way?

 

[expatCanada]

RL has had -0- violations since 2014 until 2 dead girls were found on his property. Then all hell reigned down on his life. So be it... NOW, he's locked up in the Indiana Department of Corrections, per Vinelink, for 3.5 years.

Just to play devils advocate here, imo the parole violation(s) would certainly be a reason to lie about his whereabouts. A good reason? Not imo, look at the mess he's in now.

But, addiction is addiction, and it's possible he thought lying would keep him out of jail and able to drink.

Imo


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[Peace777]

It's possible. But it would take huge set of brass balls to return to the scene of the crime.
So many plausible theories that it just boggles the mind.

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Maybe the perp/s IF local figured the area had already been searched so therefore it was save to leave the girl's bodies there covered up? And killers/sickos do return to their crime scenes FWIW

 

[expatCanada]

Night all. Maybe tomorrow is THE day? Peace.

 

[Eclipse]

Still puzzled why LG and AW weren't found in the woods on the 1st search (over 8 hr. search). This makes me think they were taken somewhere else (hidden possibly) then brought back to where their bodies were found. JMO

I don't know what purpose there would be in bringing them back there.

 

[No it's not]

Much more about Abby and Libby at link below.

==
Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German had a bond stronger than most.

A rare mid-February Monday off from school prompted the pair to do what any teenage friends would do the day before: They had a sleepover.

The girls shared a variety of interests; both loved art, both enjoyed sports and both played alto sax in the Delphi Community Middle School band.

Abby brought her big box of arts and crafts over to Libby’s house and sprawled them across the floor of Libby’s room on that Sunday night. The girls painted photos of nature on canvases as they giggled and shared intimate secrets like most young girls do.

Earlier that day, the two had been in the back yard practicing their softball swing in excited anticipation of the upcoming season.

Libby, 14, had convinced Abby, 13, to join her on the team this year.

The next day was an unseasonably warm day and the girls went out to enjoy another one of their shared hobbies by taking photos of one of their favorite places: The Monon High Bridge, Delphi’s tallest scenic attraction.

This was a bond that not even a killer could break.

http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/delphi-daughters-the-untold-story-of-abby-libby

Thank you for posting the link. Considering Libby's good eye for photography and their plan as going out to "enjoy another one of their shared hobbies by taking photos of one of their favorite places" I would expect to see more photographs than only the two SS pics.

And Abby did not bring her phone to also shoot some pictures? LE may not be in possession of Libby's phone just because of the lack of photos - unless they are not telling us and holding back everything else from that phone. That's possible.

I also noticed, that at some point they seem not to have Libby's phone, because the two SS pictures "were not time stamped" according to this transcript. If they had the phone, they would have known the exact time of when what was processed on Libby's phone. They may have found the phone later - or not.

Scroll down to page 5, SGT Kim Riley, ISP:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwS1BaNHpmSmJxOXc/view?usp=sharing

All IMO

-Nin

 

[J Lee]

Maybe the perp/s IF local figured the area had already been searched so therefore it was save to leave the girl's bodies there covered up? And killers/sickos do return to their crime scenes FWIW

Maybe.
Many killers return to the scenes of their crimes, bit not usually on the same night...with TWO bodies in tow. Why not just dump them in a river, creek, or abandoned well.
Anything is possible i suppose.

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[Alethea]

What other people? Are you suggesting random other people that we have no clue about lived or worked there? TIA ... where did that come from? JMO...

No, I'm explaining how the search warrant process works. LE doesn't know before they enter a house/property what they're going to find. They are not going to search the location where a body was found without a warrant based on the fact that the owner is on probation for a DUI. There are too many variables.

 

[HamSandwich]

This is why I rarely post. I can't reply with quote for whatever reason my phone has decided it's going with today. To the poster who asked me what made me think that locals were not familiar with the trail and bridge location: It wasn't that I thought that. I was responding in general to posters who have said that and I was in disbelief, hence my emergence from hibernation. Heading back there now......

 

[Peace777]

I don't know what purpose there would be in bringing them back there.

If search dogs had been used in the Feb 13th search why didn't the dogs find the girl's scent? We don't even know how thorough a search was done ????? Did LE think LG and AW had run away for some reason?

 

[Confusion]

Thank you for posting the link. Considering Libby's good eye for photography and their plan as going out to "enjoy another one of their shared hobbies by taking photos of one of their favorite places" I would expect to see more photographs than only the two SS pics.

And Abby did not bring her phone to also shoot some pictures? LE may not be in possession of Libby's phone just because of the lack of photos - unless they are not telling us and holding back everything else from that phone. That's possible.

I also noticed, that at some point they seem not to have Libby's phone, because the two SS pictures "were not time stamped" according to this transcript. If they had the phone, they would have known the exact time of when what was processed on Libby's phone. They may have found the phone later - or not.

Scroll down to page 5, SGT Kim Riley, ISP:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3g3DEap84xwS1BaNHpmSmJxOXc/view?usp=sharing

All IMO

-Nin

I'd guess the reason there are no time stamps on the pictures because they were cropped from bigger pictures.

MOO
ETA: Couldn't find any links so I deleted the rest of the post.

 

[Alethea]

No, I'm explaining how the search warrant process works. LE doesn't know before they enter a house/property what they're going to find. They are not going to search the location where a body was found without a warrant based on the fact that the owner is on probation for a DUI. There are too many variables.

Here's an example of why LE would get a SW not involving RL:

Hypothetical #1: Someone killed the girls and dumped their bodies. The perp walks up RL's property and sees outbuildings and a house, doesn't look like anyones home. The perp hides a bloody shirt in an outbuilding, and breaks into RL's house to wash his hands, leaving some blood on the counter. Even though RL's house is not the scene of a crime, there's now evidence of a crime in multiple places. LE has probable cause to search the property since the bodies were found on the property. They get the warrant, and search and seize anything they think could be related to this crime. At trial, LE introduces the evidence as the fruit of a valid warrant.

Hypothetical #2: Same facts as above, but the killer is the property owner's (FICTIONAL) nephew. LE does not get a warrant, they figure since RL is on probation, they can pop in for a random search. They find a bloody shirt in a shed on the property. At trial, RL testifies that the shed was not his property- it was actually his brother's property, and his brother never consented to a search. The defendant now moves to exclude the shirt arguing it was illegally seized without a warrant. The defense also moves to exclude any evidence related to the shirt under the "fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine. PROBLEMS! Even if the prosecution is successful and wins all these motions and the evidence is not excluded, you are so far behind than you would have been if you got a simple warrant.

So this is why in practice LE always gets warrants, even if it seems unnecessary to us or does not line up with what wikipedia says about warrants. If anything, LE does not want to be the reason why a murderer walks away.

 

[No it's not]

I am going to write a few posts over the next few days to try and clear up lingering questions people might have about some of the images related to the investigation.

In other words, how do you know what is real and what is a so-called "artifact" in the images?

There are many different sources of image artifacts and many different reasons for them. But generally it means something that shows up in the image, but wasn't there in the real world when the camera took the photo/video.

Compression artifacts are features in the image that appear due to the compression algorithm used when saving the image to get a smaller file size. JPEG images sometimes use a 'Quality' factor:

• 1 = small file size and bad image quality
• 100 = large file size and excellent image quality

For the lower compression quality images, you will notice a few things: blocking artifacts (8x8 pixel squares) and color artifacts (loss of color definition or appearance of color in places it shouldn't be).

Sharpening artifacts can occur when an image is sharpened for better visual display. Even though many regions of the image can look better, there may be some that look over sharpened and give the impression that things exist in the image that are not really there.

The original image I used for the above examples are from the article here:
http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/liber...ssing-snapchat-facebook-photos-family-bridge/

Next post, I was going to describe the difference between the original Snapchat and ISP video still images and the ones in news articles.

Great having you here! Awesome.

-Nin

 

[cluciano63]

Jmo, the murders took place where the girls were found, and it was all very quick. No reason at all to bring their bodies back from elsewhere if he had taken them away from the park/woods. Especially since searching began so soon after their missed pick-up time. He was home or at least far away from the scene by the time the searchers began, imo.

 

[No it's not]

Certainly if the evidence is covered in RL'S prints and/or DNA then that would be admissible. Not sure if something had the girls blood or DNA as it seems a good defense Atty could question it. Its a big place, could they be sure someone didn't slip in? Why wait a week?
What if it was the pickup they wanted. They knew he had it, saw him driving it to drop off trash then it disappeared and he was not forthcoming about its whereabouts. It showed back up on the 10th. Why wait a week to haul it off?
There is something about that search we don't get and I do think it has to do with surveillance. What I hope it is not is red tape and beaurocracy. Or perhaps 16,000 tips and hundreds of people to interview has hurt more than helped so far.

Perhaps they stuck a tracking device on the truck during the first search and removed it a week later? ;--)

All IMO

-Nin

 

[J Lee]

Jmo, the murders took place where the girls were found, and it was all very quick. No reason at all to bring their bodies back from elsewhere if he had taken them away from the park/woods. Especially since searching began so soon after their missed pick-up time. He was home or at least far away from the scene by the time the searchers began, imo.

I have the same thoughts.
It makes you wonder kf he has done this before....
2 victims...broad daylight...limited time frame...possible planning....lack of evidence (that we know of).
He will probably attack again and if he does, I hope he slips up and gets caught.

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