IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #54

[DrOrchid]

MOO is BG was at the general vicinity of the CS, as the girls got on to the bridge. Once they were roughly halfway across, BG made his way across the trail area off the NW end of the bridge. BG eventually (within a few minutes) got to the NW approach of the bridge, then put the wheels in motion to abduct the girls.

JMO

I have a hard time believing that BG prepared they way he must have all for the chance that two little girls would just happen to come along. This took planning in advance and he got the results he wanted. IMO

 

[Jethro4WS]

At least it would be helpful to know COD. This could help sway a person who is holding back information . Moo

I am not so sure about that but it is possible. I have trouble imagining that someone is okay thinking they know a person murdered a child and that is just fine with them so long as they didn't murder that child in a particular way.

 

[MistyWaters]

Bob Saccamano
02-18-2017, 05:34 PM
Thread # 3 Post # 524

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-13-Feb-2017-3/page10&p=13156460#post13156460

Yes, excellent, very well thought out, thank you for finding this DeDee! A pity if such great posts get forgotten and lost within dozens of threads.


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[Jethro4WS]

If you search Bob Saccamano (I'm not sure if thats the right spelling of the last name), he posted a lot in the beginning. All of his maps were AMAZING! And it was topography and actually showed the arrows of the angle of the hills. I was going to link you to a post that I did many threads in that linked back to many of his map posts (because someone else was mentioning this exact thing), but apparently Websleuths now only lets you see very few of your past posts. So, I can't get you my post. You will have to search for him. Maybe find him as a member and look at his posts. Not sure if WS past posts are now on a time limit or a number. I wish that didn't exist because I often have to go back and find info from my own posts. For them to be gone from my profile makes that impossible.

What you can do to find your posts (or posts by others) is to go to google and in the search box put the username and then whatever words you think would narrow it down and then after the last search word put " site:www.websleuths.com" and that could get you closer to or exactly to the post you are looking for.

 

[No it's not]

Hi Nin,
Your question about risk started me thinking about the entire notion of "risk" and what place it has in our thinking and our culture. Specifically, how do people like SKs think about risk - if at all? There are entire professions and businesses that are run using the mathematics of risk (insurance, gambling, market trading, weather, etc.), and that I can understand, but I cannot imagine what any kind of murderer would be thinking in any situation, much less how they process situational risk.
For some people, thinking through a risk involves almost magical thinking - e.g., if I sneak downstairs to get get a piece of cake in the middle of the night, what are the chances that Mom will catch me and punish me for it? A child pondering such a question would no doubt engage in some fairly magical thought processes. On the other side of the coin, there are people who, as adults, really calculate quite clearly and coldly what the risk of capture/consequence/loss/success would be if they, say, stole a car.
But thinking about getting caught for a brutal murder and/or SA ? I really can't fathom how that would go. I am sure that some of our national LE agencies have some fairly sophisticated software devoted to the assessment of risk of certain behaviors, from terrorism to murder. And I'd really like to know if those gov't resources are being devoted to help with this case. And if there are any good studies already published that cover this subject.
MOO

It is a conundrum, isn't it? On one hand a SK would draw excitement from risky behavior (not all), on the other hand that same SK will avoid anything and anyone, that can place him at a certain location at a certain time. They use burner phones, pay cash anywhere they go to or stay. They avoid highways and toll routes. They clean up after them (some do not) and try to destroy, hide or anyhow put away with the bodies, or they do the opposite and add a signature.

Therefore I should have asked, do you think he is a SK and is therefore a risk taker? Of course not all SK's display risky behavior during, before and after the process of murdering another human being. And yet, the fact of murder is a high risk in itself, I agree. But then from the SK's point of view taking the piece of cake in the middle of the night was worth it and Mom will not catch him, because he is just too clever.

Interesting subject.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree. I also wonder what the family members of the victims are thinking.
They must know all of the details regarding the murder but were probably told not to go public with it for fear of jeopardizing the case. But with so little progress in finding the killer or killers, they must be frustrated and might want to spill the beans in the hopes it moves things along.

Last night Abby's mom and Libby's grandparents appeared on a special - Delphi's Daughters: The Untold Story of Abby and Libby

http://www.theindychannel.com/longform/delphi-daughters-the-untold-story-of-abby-libby

Their strong faith in LE is inspiring.


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[Spiritecho]

I hope this is considered MSM and ok

https://www.facebook.com/GrantCountySF/posts/1035696433234317?hc_location=ufi

 

[kat913]

Ok I have gone as far as I can go...I do believe he is in construction (perhaps even a real bridge guy) but until I have a magical way of cross-referencing names; unions and companies...I am at a loss! So, I will just sit on my hands and wait for the final reveal (which I believe is coming)...I have to hope and pray!!

 

[cluciano63]

I am not so sure about that but it is possible. I have trouble imagining that someone is okay thinking they know a person murdered a child and that is just fine with them so long as they didn't murder that child in a particular way.

I mentioned this some time ago, that perhaps if somone out there knows a man who resembles the image and is also obsessed with, for instance, knives, and is never without one...knowing cause of death could bring about a new batch of suspects. Just an example, obviously.

 

[mpnola]

Bob Saccamano
02-18-2017, 05:34 PM
Thread # 3 Post # 524

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-13-Feb-2017-3/page10&p=13156460#post13156460

Thanks! Yes! That's the poster! And he did a bunch more! One was a whole lot of little red arrows, showing the slope of each area of land. I wish he was still around, but honestly, most of us who were here from the beginning have moved on because the conversations are circular. New people, no new info, that's what happens. But see if you can find his posts/ maps. They are very insightful and I 100% believe that bridge guy knows that land well. You will see that he basically got them in a trap. Every side is a steep hill except the one side that is water. He also chose a sizable flat area that was close to the bridge, yet far enough away. This sort of tactical planning made many of us speculate that he possibly has military in his past. That or land scouting for hunting back there. But this spot seems anything but random. The more that was realized, the creepier it got.

And Jethro- I did try googling first. Apparently that name is fro Seinfeld and I couldn't get what I was looking for lol. But that is usually a very good tip! I will look in faqs to see what it says about timed posts now. Thanks, yall!

 

[No it's not]

Does anyone have any thoughts on why Hughes' Google map shows a pinpoint on the corner of N450W and W300N labeled "image of Liberty and another"? I noticed it after studying his videos for the bizillionth time.

Libby has a pic on her FB showing herself and a friend at the intersection of N450W and W300N. Photo was taken by a third person.

All IMO

-Nin

 

[ashleybruemleve]

Hi, Cloudajo!

The reason I do not believe that it was stored on any kind of cloud is because of the timing.

IMO, if what you are saying about access is correct, the family and/or LE would have been able to get access to all that info the night of the 13th. I would certainly think that the family would be handing over any account info to LE voluntarily for them to look at, especially as the night wore on. If they did access that video per a cloud then they would have known exactly what danger those girls would have been in. I then cannot see how LE would have then made a statement saying they had no reason to suspect that the girls were in any danger other than exposure to the elements.

So, the question for me becomes, if LE does have Libby's phone, why not just play the video? Perhaps the phone was damaged to a degree that made the video not playable, so experts in the field of extraction were brought in to get the video footage.

This is just my working theory, of course, and like everything, open to a better idea. :fence: Your thoughts?

I would strongly suggest that everyone really listen to what Websight is offering you here, specifically about the condition of the phone.

It is very important to take into account the crime scene flow based on GH videos and again when LE acquired the video. For example, AFAWK, the information from the video began to take shape AFTER the girls were found. If it had been accessed by a cloud service, it would be reasonable to assume LE would have had that info while the girls were still missing, thus raising the level of concern.

It stands to reason that LE found Libby's phone either at the same time they found the girls or shortly thereafter in their evidence search. The phone was found smashed to pieces, but the killer did a poor job of destroying it = the SD card, containing the video evidence, remained intact. It took a short amount of time for the team of Computer Crimes Experts to then retrieve the information Libby so bravely captured. Based on GH Crime Scene Flow and other info, she captured several minutes, anywhere from 6-10, before the girls were murdered at the exact spot they were found.

All IMO...

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[rosesfromangels]

Ok I have gone as far as I can go...I do believe he is in construction (perhaps even a real bridge guy) but until I have a magical way of cross-referencing names; unions and companies...I am at a loss! So, I will just sit on my hands and wait for the final reveal (which I believe is coming)...I have to hope and pray!!

My guess is security guard, prison guard, or military. That voice was very authoritative.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Thanks! Yes! That's the poster! And he did a bunch more! One was a whole lot of little red arrows, showing the slope of each area of land. I wish he was still around, but honestly, most of us who were here from the beginning have moved on because the conversations are circular. New people, no new info, that's what happens. But see if you can find his posts/ maps. They are very insightful and I 100% believe that bridge guy knows that land well. You will see that he basically got them in a trap. Every side is a steep hill except the one side that is water. He also chose a sizable flat area that was close to the bridge, yet far enough away. This sort of tactical planning made many of us speculate that he possibly has military in his past. That or land scouting for hunting back there. But this spot seems anything but random. The more that was realized, the creepier it got.

And Jethro- I did try googling first. Apparently that name is fro Seinfeld and I couldn't get what I was looking for lol. But that is usually a very good tip! I will look in faqs to see what it says about timed posts now. Thanks, yall!

if you add "site:www.websleuths.com" (without the quotes) to the end of your search words in Google then Google ONLY searches websleuths and nowhere else. Of course you can restrict searches your searches to any specific site the same way - by putting "site:" followed by the URL

 

[J Lee]

I would strongly suggest that everyone really listen to what Websight is offering you here, specifically about the condition of the phone.

It is very important to take into account the crime scene flow based on GH videos and again when LE acquired the video. For example, AFAWK, the information from the video began to take shape AFTER the girls were found. If it had been accessed by a cloud service, it would be reasonable to assume LE would have had that info while the girls were still missing, thus raising the level of concern.

It stands to reason that LE found Libby's phone either at the same time they found the girls or shortly thereafter in their evidence search. The phone was found smashed to pieces, but the killer did a poor job of destroying it = the SD card, containing the video evidence, remained intact. It took a short amount of time for the team of Computer Crimes Experts to then retrieve the information Libby so bravely captured. Based on GH Crime Scene Flow and other info, she captured several minutes, anywhere from 6-10, before the girls were murdered at the exact spot they were found.

All IMO...

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Do we know when Libby's phone was found?

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[DrOrchid]

Two young girls dropped off for a few hours to go for a walk alone on a secluded trail in the woods that included a dangerous and delapidated train track and didn't return at the agreed to time and location and no one was that concerned? What did they think, they got abducted by aliens? If they needed a ride to get there, they needed a ride to get home. They didn't answer their cell phone or call to let anyone know if their plans changed and yet LE wasn't concerned enough to do a thorough search for them all night long if need be?

 

[Maplesyrup]

Or trying to blend into the town where he lives, maybe picking up a movie, or replacing clothes he discarded. Whatever he is doing tonight he has to look over his shoulder and always wonder if he thinks someone looks at him a little too long...maybe they recognize him. Maybe they don't. I hope it gives him ulcers and makes it hard to close his eyes at night...wondering when the other shoe is going to drop.

I think he is in a far away state waiting to strike again and reveling in the fact that he does not think he will be caught for this or for the Iowa case. I think someone may have called in the right tip and hopefully the perp jumps every time there is a knock at his door. I also hope he is having sleepless nights not because he feels guilty because I don't think he would but he is worried about getting caught. The devil always leaves the cover off the boiling pot and the truth spills out.

 

[richoldguyy]

there are at least 2 diagrammed aerial maps circulating. 1 has the bodies found far to the right of the bottom of the cemetery. 1 has the bodies directly below the cemetery. dont know which is correct, but separately they present very different possibilities for the crime circumstances. can anyone for certain tell me which is accurate?

 

[ashleybruemleve]

Do we know when Libby's phone was found?

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I wouldn't say we KNOW because it has not been confirmed by LE. But I am giving you a hypothetical of IF it was found then, the scenario is likely.

All IMO

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[Lilowlet]

Tia anyone for a link to the scanner thread so I can mark it, not navigating tapa well yet. )

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