IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

[MistyWaters]

Just want to point out "motive" is not necessary in a court of law. "Intent" is important and a difference. JMO. (close together but different)

For example: Motive = Why? Motive doesn't prove guilt and is very arbitrary.

Intent = purpose or action of the crime. It's deliberate and generally has 4 levels to help prove the crime: (means and opportunity)
1) purposely
2) knowingly
3) recklessly
4) negligently

That's correct, motive is not required to be proven but it certainly aids in a conviction.

Interestingly though, this retired investigator claims that's where the investigation begins. Makes sense to me, why something occurred may lead to how it happened.

"The murder mystery near the Monon High Bridge Trial has so far gone unsolved, but like most murders investigators likely started the same way.

“The first thing you look for is a motive,” said retired IMPD homicide captain Robert Snow. “Quite often, 90 percent of the time that will lead you to a suspect.”

http://fox59.com/2017/02/17/retired...ow-delphi-double-murder-case-might-be-solved/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[cluciano63]

SBM
How do you come up with this exactly?

Because I think the motive was sexual in these murders...and people who would do this sort of crime usually have a history of escalating behavior imo.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I was quite surprised at how loud the sound of water is.

You can also hear the water in the short clip in the WLFI night search video at around the 29 second mark. The creek would have been louder than normal because the creek had been above normal levels. The day before the girls went missing the creek had a flow of 600 cubic feet a second. On the day they went missing it was 500 cubic feet a second. And when we see the searches in the water on the 14th it was around 400 cubic feet a second.

 

[expatCanada]

I go by law. Not gut or some sort of hinky meter thingy. Just ME.

Motive has no place in a court of law to get a verdict. It dose seem to matter to lay people for some odd reason. IMO

That's correct, motive is not required to be proven but it certainly aids in a conviction.

Interestingly though, this retired investigator claims that's where the investigation begins. Makes sense to me, why something occurred may lead to how it happened.

"The murder mystery near the Monon High Bridge Trial has so far gone unsolved, but like most murders investigators likely started the same way.

“The first thing you look for is a motive,” said retired IMPD homicide captain Robert Snow. “Quite often, 90 percent of the time that will lead you to a suspect.”

http://fox59.com/2017/02/17/retired...ow-delphi-double-murder-case-might-be-solved/


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[MistyWaters]

It seems like there must be at least dozens of small clues that only the murderer would know. I don't know why causes of death would be kept so quiet. I am new to this- so I would like to ask veteran sleuthers- has this become the usual way for law enforcement to handle murders- to keep cause of death a secret from the public?

It may be withheld out of respect for the family, considering children were involved. Seems there's all kinds of internet speculation involving death, even people with absolutely no scruples inventing fake autopsy photos, etc. By not releasing a cause of death, it nullifies any of that type of activity since nobody has any information to sensationalize.

Frankly, I don't think we need to know. MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[kat913]

Lilowlet I love your praying icon...everytime I see it...I get hope! Thanks for the uplift!

 

[Jethro4WS]

In regards to this video, at about the 2:47 mark, Eric Williams starts to say "victims". Please watch again and let me know. This was before these girls were found. Maybe I'm hearing things.

Yes, I believe so as well.

 

[indycindy]

it is hard to tell

 

[SomeoneElse333]

It seems like there must be at least dozens of small clues that only the murderer would know. I don't know why causes of death would be kept so quiet. I am new to this- so I would like to ask veteran sleuthers- has this become the usual way for law enforcement to handle murders- to keep cause of death a secret from the public?

I know the causes of death haven't been released, but are the CODs ironclad secret? I have to think that there's talk and gossip, some of which might be true or based on truths. Before, when the media fed us pretty much everything we knew about a case, I could see the value in withholding COD. But today, where talk spreads in no time, I wonder if it's still beneficial to withhold that particular information.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[fred&edna]

I go by law. Not gut or some sort of hinky meter thingy. Just ME.

Motive has no place in a court of law to get a verdict. It dose seem to matter to lay people for some odd reason. IMO

'Similar quote in a book I just finished reading.... (motive doesn't haven't a place in court but) juries love motive

ETA And, we can relate to Ann Rule's quote "The why of murder always fascinates me so much more than the how."

 

[Krwiley60]

That is completely false.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jethro4WS]

Does anyone have anything further on the incident last night about a guy flagging down LE to report something about the case? It was in Grant County IIRC. Anyone have a link?

I made the archived audio files available via my Google drive. I haven't listened to them yet. Others might have already. There is a post on the scanner thread.

 

[expatCanada]

'Similar quote in a book I just finished reading.... (motive doesn't haven't a place in court but) juries love motive

Yep because "they" watch LA Law and CSI ... crimes solved in one hour on TV. :facepalm:

 

[SomeoneElse333]

Because I think the motive was sexual in these murders...and people who would do this sort of crime usually have a history of escalating behavior imo.

Ah. I misunderstood your​ original post. I thought you were theorizing that RL maybe looked at *advertiser censored* or was a peeping tom.

I agree with what you're saying here.


The above is just my opinion.

 

[timalinabailey]

In regards to this video, at about the 2:47 mark, Eric Williams starts to say "victims". Please watch again and let me know. This was before these girls were found. Maybe I'm hearing things.

I agree I heard "Vic" and then he changes to girls .. WOW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TheVisual]

It seems like there must be at least dozens of small clues that only the murderer would know. I don't know why causes of death would be kept so quiet. I am new to this- so I would like to ask veteran sleuthers- has this become the usual way for law enforcement to handle murders- to keep cause of death a secret from the public?

Maybe because it was so horrendous.

 

[Jabarn]

Just want to point out "motive" is not necessary in a court of law. "Intent" is important and a difference. JMO. (close together but different)

For example: Motive = Why? Motive doesn't prove guilt and is very arbitrary.

Intent = purpose or action of the crime. It's deliberate and generally has 4 levels to help prove the crime: (means and opportunity)
1) purposely
2) knowingly
3) recklessly
4) negligently

If I had to guess, the intent was not negligent.

After rereading your post a second time, I am paused on recklessly, working my way from the bottom.

This is interesting to me, and another aspect to think about when thinking about the mysterious motive, or intent.

 

[fred&edna]

Yep because "they" watch LA Law and CSI ... crimes solved in one hour on TV. :facepalm:

I think motive helps a person "see the whole picture".

I mean... 'Just knowing it was Mrs Peacock in the drawing room with the candlestick isn't nearly as interesting without including Mr Peacock was having an affair with Miss Scarlet and Mrs Peacock was likely overcome with jealousy.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

It may be withheld out of respect for the family, considering children were involved. Seems there's all kinds of internet speculation involving death, even people with absolutely no scruples inventing fake autopsy photos, etc. By not releasing a cause of death, it nullifies any of that type of activity since nobody has any information to sensationalize.

Frankly, I don't think we need to know. MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree, and I don't want to know. However, COD info might compel someone to come forward. I know some people think that that info might not sway someone, but I think it could. This, to me, is particularly true if there's a family member or close friend who perhaps has rationalized BG's past actions without fully understanding them.

The above is just my opinion.

 

[Rott Mom]

I agree I heard "Vic" and then he changes to girls .. WOW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you! I guess I'm not losing my mind (yet).