IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #55

[kirkassoc]

New video released by GH. :happydance:


[video=youtube;G39sZt-j4kk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39sZt-j4kk[/video]

 

[Shiressleuth]

I sure do wish that something would answer all the questions that we have. :-(

I know that LE has to hold some info back, but with the BG resembling half of all middle-aged American men and the audio not being much, I just really hope that they do release more at some point..

I know there's been a lot.. like a LOT of discussion about BG's clothing, so if anyone has mentioned this I've missed it - Has anyone considered whether the jacket he is wearing may actually be inside out to avoid showing any logos, ect.? The way that it kind of puckers where it would come together if there are buttons makes me think that it could be.

That is a good point about the jacket. Welcome btw.

 

[Shiressleuth]

New video released by GH. :happydance:


[video=youtube;G39sZt-j4kk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39sZt-j4kk[/video]

I cant see how this is different to the moving one we have already seen? I may have missed something however. When was this one done? Also, can we discuss this on this thread or should we be on the image thread with it? I don't want to be doing anything to earn a TO so am a bit wary giving my opinion now. What do others think?

 

[FrostedGlass]

4. Why did they have a ride to and from bridge/trail, if they lived so close? Was there problems with a person who lived between their starting location & the trail , causing them to not want to walk by there?

Maybe they were on a short time frame? As for problems with a neighbor, IMO Libby's grandpa would have likely put a kibosh to anyone troubling the kids.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

New video released by GH. :happydance:


[video=youtube;G39sZt-j4kk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G39sZt-j4kk[/video]

Those videos are amazing. The accompanying music is hauntingly appropriate.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

4. Why did they have a ride to and from bridge/trail, if they lived so close? Was there problems with a person who lived between their starting location & the trail , causing them to not want to walk by there?

All of the above is MOO & nothing more is implied.

RSBM.

Earlier in a thread, there was a discussion about times, I seem to recall. If I'm remembering correctly, some people in WS theorized about what might have been a gap between the drop-off and the Snapchat photo timestamp.

If the girls lived within walking distance of the bridge yet still got a ride, that could support the theory that they went to lunch or somewhere else, somewhere further, first.

Alternatively, if one girl spent the preceding night with the other girl, perhaps she had an overnight bag or sleeping bag that needed to be stored in a car and not lugged on the hike.

I enjoyed reading your post. If we only knew more about their daily routines, we might be able to piece together more of their story. For example...

How did they get to school each day?

As athletes did they train on the trails or in public where they could be observed?

Did they ride bikes, and if so did they ride them on the trails?

Was anyone home each day when they got home from school?

Did any other athletic groups train on those trails?

What info does the school post publicly? (I'm often amazed by the info people and organizations like schools post online.)

The above is just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Those videos are amazing. The accompanying music is hauntingly appropriate.

When BG is walking faster he reminds of a football player, IMO.

 

[iscaremyself]

RSBM.

Earlier in a thread, there was a discussion about times, I seem to recall. If I'm remembering correctly, some people in WS theorized about what might have been a gap between the drop-off and the Snapchat photo timestamp.

If the girls lived within walking distance of the bridge yet still got a ride, that could support the theory that they went to lunch or somewhere else, somewhere further, first.

Alternatively, if one girl spent the preceding night with the other girl, perhaps she had an overnight bag or sleeping bag that needed to be stored in a car and not lugged on the hike.

I enjoyed reading your post. If we only knew more about their daily routines, we might be able to piece together more of their story. For example...

How did they get to school each day?

As athletes did they train on the trails or in public where they could be observed?

Did they ride bikes, and if so did they ride them on the trails?

Was anyone home each day when they got home from school?

Did any other athletic groups train on those trails?

What info does the school post publicly? (I'm often amazed by the info people and organizations like schools post online.)

The above is just my opinion.

all your questions point to a targeting which does seem more likely than a 'crime of opportunity"..it's such a small town I have to assume every male and authority figure has been scrutinized by the outside agencies involved.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

all your questions point to a targeting which does seem more likely than a 'crime of opportunity"..it's such a small town I have to assume every male and authority figure has been scrutinized by the outside agencies involved.

I don't think BG is a local. Just my opinion.

Also just my opinion: I think the crime itself was planned but the specific victims may have been only semi-targeted.

 

[ClementineK]

It makes me want to find something around the house here with buttons that is comparable and put it on inside out for a photo. I think it would show how it could make it look puckered around the buttons in the same way as BG's jacket is. I think I might do that just for the heck of it.

 

[No it's not]

Does that look like a wooden structure? A tree stand perhaps?

Marker -17:47

Source:

RTV6 video

https://www.facebook.com/WRTV6/videos/vb.65323249091/10154523478509092/?type=2&theater

 

[ClementineK]

I don't see it personally, but I'm sure it could be. I really can't imagine that there wouldn't be some tree stands in all of those woods.

 

[Zulu007]

Not really. Unless we assume that BG knew he would be recorded by his victims.

 

[Idareyato]

Just thought I should heads up on yesterday's Times post and the picture of Abby. I downloaded and 'saved' 2 or 3 of these and a virus (aaResources.dll/) with a number 1406 tried to embed itself. I shut down. I erased the virus I am pretty sure. Letting you know, okay.

 

[Deleted member 196796]

Does that look like a wooden structure? A tree stand perhaps?

Marker -17:47

Source:

RTV6 video

https://www.facebook.com/WRTV6/videos/vb.65323249091/10154523478509092/?type=2&theater

Nin I'll give you my 2 cents. For starters this is a good find. With the number of horizontal structure pieces conveniently between 2 existing trees and somewhat evenly spaced apart vertically along with the color contrast of the material used between those 2 trees IMO it resembles some sort of a blind.

 

[Idareyato]

I don't think BG is a local. Just my opinion.

Also just my opinion: I think the crime itself was planned but the specific victims may have been only semi-targeted.

Yesterday Peace777 made a comment that took hold on me. The killer was planning an abduction w/o the bodies being discovered for a real long time. "They were discovered very soon after they were killed." Makes sense if he googled a study in his time, and planned it. Plus it would prove LE and MP's comment of the girl's fighting. He couldn't get them back to the cemetery once they were down, where his vehicle was waiting. I think in MOO it was a botched Kidnap Crime.

 

[SomeoneElse333]

Yesterday Peace777 made a comment that took hold on me. The killer was planning an abduction w/o the bodies being discovered for a real long time. "They were discovered very soon after they were killed." Makes sense if he googled a study in his time, and planned it. Plus it would prove LE and MP's comment of the girl's fighting. He couldn't get them back to the cemetery once they were down, where his vehicle was waiting. I think in MOO it was a botched Kidnap Crime.

It chills me to think of that. 😦

 

[Brighty]

Brighty, I too had a similar experience way back in the 80's as a teenager. My friend and I were driving on the interstate and this creep kept driving next to us and making gestures, he even had a piece of paper with something written on it. We were 16 and I'd say this guy was in his late 20's. We felt fairly safe because we were on the interstate, but it was really just a creepy experience. Apparently he did that enough to where he just had a piece of paper sitting there with those words on it. For a long time after I was on the lookout for news of any rapes or murders around where that was.

It is such a creepy experience!

 

[sumzero]

Yesterday Peace777 made a comment that took hold on me. The killer was planning an abduction w/o the bodies being discovered for a real long time. "They were discovered very soon after they were killed." Makes sense if he googled a study in his time, and planned it. Plus it would prove LE and MP's comment of the girl's fighting. He couldn't get them back to the cemetery once they were down, where his vehicle was waiting. I think in MOO it was a botched Kidnap Crime.

This is what I think, too. I find it hard to believe he would've spent extra time sexually assualting his victims out in the open. The longer he was out there, the better chance someone might happen to witness the assault. If it was a planned sexual assault, which is my best guess, he also wouldn't want the bodies discovered since he'd have left DNA on the victims for sure. So, it makes sense, at least to me, that he wanted to remove them to a secure location, where he could do what he planned to do, kill them, and then hide the bodies. But they resisted and botched his plan.

 

[Idareyato]

I don't want you to feel like anyone's putting down your theories & I should've made that much clearer in my other post. The English language can be a really slippery beast - words don't even need to be ambiguous to make things confusing. I've messed my head up completely by repeating something as simple as the word "the" too many times - & I had a distinction average at uni, it's not like I was barely literate. So PLEASE (& this goes for everyone) don't feel like anything said is intended as a snide remark or a put down.

My own life view is that no matter how old you get, every day remains a learning experience. Some days it might be a word definition or pronunciation, some days it might be something seriously embarrassing (like finding out in your 40s that Alaska isn't where you thought it was :blush: ). Sometimes you'll enter a conversation thinking you're going to impart knowledge, but you'll leave as a receiver of knowledge instead. You just don't know which it will be & that's one of the things I really enjoy about forums - you never know when the giver/receiver role will suddenly flip.

So ... I'm genuinely trying to understand the usage of "killed" that some are seeing - it did begin to seem ambiguous to me at one point, & I momentarily started to come around to your view, so don't feel that I'm closed to the idea.

I just feel like I'm really missing something in the wiki example? I've read the whole thing at least 5 times but I can only find the kind of examples that people were using to show that the word would NOT be used that way?

It literally uses the same language as several of the examples that have been given in this thread to explain that you can't be killed on one day, but die on another. Plus, I can't find anywhere in this wiki that it states all of the deceased victims were killed on 22 March 2017.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Westminster_attack

ie. the wiki specifically says "on 22 March, 2017 ... an attack took place injuring more than 50 people, 4 of them fatally".

The wiki has more than one example of people who were injured by KM, the attacker & then died at a later time. It does not describe any of those victims as having been "killed" during the incident on 22 March 2017.

In relation to the victims who died after the incident it always uses language like "fatally wounded", " "sustained severe injuries", "later died" "died as the result of"

eg -

"Having been knocked unconscious and sustained severe injuries from the fall, she was later rescued by the crew of a river cruise and brought aboard a London Fire Brigade boat. She later died in hospital from her injuries."

"Six people, including the attacker, died as a result of the incident, and around 50 others were injured"

"The fourth victim ... later died in hospital after his life support was switched off."

"fell into the Thames during the attack; she died in hospital as a result of her injuries on 6 April after her life support was withdrawn.


It does say they were killed by KM. That statement will also be true of the Delphi killer, because no matter when a victim dies, if they die as the result of injuries inflicted by a person or thing, then that person or thing is correctly described as having killed them.

However, "killed" is never used to describe when a victim died unless they die during the initial incident - & as far as I can see the wiki example supports this contention because nowhere does it claim they were all killed then & there on the bridge, on 22 March.


So as far as I can see, even your own example demonstrates that "killed" can always be used for the "who" or "what" & the "how", but it cannot always be used for the "when"



But I could've missed something that would change my mind, or I've got the wrong wiki?



(Also, I just want to add that conversations like these ones make me feel SO BAD for kids from non-English speaking backgrounds who have to contend with high school & university course work in English )

Just had to comment this was the best read I have seen. The algebraic examples are a bit difficult though simple math to some. This had clarity with excellent examples showing the comparisons.