IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #59

[Evania]

If it's true that LE hasn't any clue who BG is, then IMO I truly don't understand what harm there is in releasing additional info at this point.
However, I can see their point in withholding COD because it's good for them to have information that only the killer would know. However, IMO additional video stills or even just seeing the video of him taking an actual step would help in terms of identification.

However, if they know more than what they're actually telling, then releasing any more info would be detrimental to the case and/or tip the killer off that they're onto him.




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[Molecularblonde]

The fact he hasn't come forward, that Liberty felt the need to record him and the timing of the attack make it unlikely to not be him in my opinion.

so perhaps BG is not the murder? Just a man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

 

[Jennifer17]

Not to me.Those poor innocent men. Sure they are innocent;

 

[DeDee]

Well because he used a vague way of saying something about the bodies in that 'how they were found' indicates they were killed, specifically killed, not accident, suicide or exposure, etc. You explain what 'positioned' means very well, but positioning was not said. A position could indicate a killing as opposed to a suicide I would think, but without getting more specific here as in 'staging' or displaying for instance and what that means.
I DO believe LE was trying to avoid that kind of speculating and rumor.I think he was saying the simplest way to indicate murder as opposed to other means of death.
Anything about positioning" is speculation without fact in this case - so far. "the way they were found" could be as simple as blue lips, tied hands. A knife in the chest would indicate murder without and specific positioning.

All JMO of course, but that is the LE quote we have. There are no quotes anywhere about positioning except on a certain blog. It won't surprise me if it's true. Nothing will TBH.

Speculating on "the way the bodies were found" offers far too many options. I don't read other blogs. I read SMS,. obits, birth announcements, marriage certificates and divorce records, county records, SM accounts, study genealogy, etc. The leaves were undisturbed in the area marked by crime scene yellow tape on RLs property. The image has been posted numerous times.

Way = a method, style, or manner, or method of doing something:

My interpretation is that the bodies were found to be murdered in a certain style, in a particular manner by a disturbing method.

Blue lips are not a sign of death. Blue lips can be caused by disease. Cyanosis can be caused from low oxygen levels.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/cyanosis/Pages/Introduction.aspx

http://people.com/crime/abigail-will...eens-5-things/
“We are investigating this as a crime scene,” Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley said at a press conference last Tuesday, adding that the “way the bodies were found” led them to believe the girls were killed."

 

[Marples]

This is very diffcult to explain so forgive me if this doesn't make sense.

I clone genes for a living. We do not know what each and every gene, (and it's subsequent protein) encodes for. There is no single "gay" gene. Genes exist sometimes as discreet (single) codes, but many exist as clusters. So, there is no discreet gene for your specific fingerprint for example. But there are specific genes for disorders like trisomy 21 (Down's syndrome). There are single mutations for things like Tay- Sach's disease. Somethings occur as the result of one singe base pair mutation. But other disorders like cancer are a conglomeration of multiple genetic mutations.
My point is that our DNA codes for major aspects of our character. You might feel that it's nurture, and that can be true. But nature is what determines the majority of our phenotype.

There is no "one article" that sites that DNA codes for eye color. But it does.

I hope I have not offended anyone who has religious beliefs that go against science.

That's an interesting take on it. Not 100% sold on it, even though I understood your explanation. I guess until by just looking at a person's DNA they can declare them factually gay, like they can factually state eye colour for example, I find it hard to believe it's determined solely at the nature level. Thanks for your explanation. I'm not religious and do believe in science. I don't discount there being some scientific explanation for it.


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[asyousay]

so perhaps BG is not the murder? Just a man who was in the wrong place at the wrong time?

So then why would you not come forward , it's a very small town so if you was on that bridge at that time and you are innocent you would of come forward by now.

 

[St. Anthony2017]

Discovering Abby and Libby, Processing the scene...THEN recovering the audio. Bless everyone involved in their search and rescue. Let BG meet someone far worse than he is.

Hopefully he will feel the fear the girls must have felt as he waits in prison for the death penalty. Justice will not be merciful to him.

 

[Cryptic]

True that, but also to bring up another scenario, say it did bring up further conversation and ultimately leading to LG taking video, due to it not matching the situation, maybe a bit far fetched I agree, but both scenarios possible imo.

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Good point, just because there is no evidence of a conversation on the tape does not mean one did not occur. Both scenarios are equally possible.

 

[MistyWaters]

If it's true that LE hasn't any clue who BG is, then IMO I truly don't understand what harm there is in releasing additional info at this point.
However, I can see their point in withholding COD because it's good for them to have information that only the killer would know. However, IMO additional video stills or even just seeing the video of him taking an actual step would help in terms of identification.

However, if they know more than what they're actually telling, then releasing any more info would be detrimental to the case and/or tip the killer off that they're onto him.




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I wonder that LE isn't releasing video or more stills because the chances of identifying a suspect based on solely on physical likeness is low, considering the facial features are not visible. Earlier LE asked for leads also based on changes in behaviour or appearance following the date of Feb 13th. Three months along, tips based on solely on appearance without other factors become even more difficult to investigate.

In my opinion it's prudent they put their time and energy toward taking a close 2nd look at some of the 16000 or 18000 tips they've already received, applying additional information they've since learned.

 

[Burnt Toast]

Speculating on "the way the bodies were found" offers far too many options. I don't read other blogs. I read SMS,. obits, birth announcements, marriage certificates and divorce records, county records, SM accounts, study genealogy, etc. The leaves were undisturbed in the area marked by crime scene yellow tape on RLs property. The image has been posted numerous times.

Way = a method, style, or manner, or method of doing something:

My interpretation is that the bodies were found to be murdered in a certain style, in a particular manner by a disturbing method.

Blue lips are not a sign of death. Blue lips can be caused by disease. Cyanosis can be caused from low oxygen levels.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/cyanosis/Pages/Introduction.aspx

could you post a picture of the "undisturbed" leaves at the CS. I have only seen pictures taken from the other side of the CS tape looking in. The distance in those pictures make it impossible to tell if the leaves have been disturbed.

 

[Ember123]

Speculating on "the way the bodies were found" offers far too many options. I don't read other blogs. I read SMS,. obits, birth announcements, marriage certificates and divorce records, county records, SM accounts, study genealogy, etc. The leaves were undisturbed in the area marked by crime scene yellow tape on RLs property. The image has been posted numerous times.

Way = a method, style, or manner, or method of doing something:

My interpretation is that the bodies were found to be murdered in a certain style, in a particular manner by a disturbing method.

Blue lips are not a sign of death. Blue lips can be caused by disease. Cyanosis can be caused from low oxygen levels.
http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/cyanosis/Pages/Introduction.aspx

For some reason I have come to think they were found hanging.
I STILL strongly recall LE indicating that initially they did not know if what they were looking at was a crime scene. (Wish I cld find that early quote!) IF by hanging (sorry, it's horrible, I know) that could explain how they were missed on first search if searchers were scouring the GROUND, and, it may have appeared a possible dual suicide. JMO but I have had this stuck in my mind for a while. It appears he had rope possibly stuffed in his jacket front and finging them that way would be a shock to LE for sure. Thoughts??

 

[Tssiemer]

For some reason I have come to think they were found hanging.
I STILL strongly recall LE indicating that initially they did not know if what they were looking at was a crime scene. (Wish I cld find that early quote!) IF by hanging (sorry, it's horrible, I know) that could explain how they were missed on first search if searchers were scouring the GROUND, and, it may have appeared a possible dual suicide. JMO but I have had this stuck in my mind for a while. It appears he had rope possibly stuffed in his jacket front and finging them that way would be a shock to LE for sure. Thoughts??

I know I don't post much. But I have thought they were hanging from the beginning.


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[MistyWaters]

For some reason I have come to think they were found hanging.
I STILL strongly recall LE indicating that initially they did not know if what they were looking at was a crime scene. (Wish I cld find that early quote!) IF by hanging (sorry, it's horrible, I know) that could explain how they were missed on first search if searchers were scouring the GROUND, and, it may have appeared a possible dual suicide. JMO but I have had this stuck in my mind for a while. It appears he had rope possibly stuffed in his jacket front and finging them that way would be a shock to LE for sure. Thoughts??

I noticed earlier some SM participants incorrectly assumed LE's 12:09 comment on Twitter (Feb 13th, just past midnight) that "no foul play was expected" occured AFTER the bodies were discovered. In my opinion, that led to the rumour that LE wasn't sure if the crime scene revealed a homicide. Maybe that sort of discussion is what you recall?

Later the hanging theory swirled as the reason the bodies weren't found when RL's 40 acres was searched in the darkness the first night, even though there's nothing to indicate areas other than informal search parties looked along the river banks and trails.

Many many times this has been already discussed and nowhere can a statement that LE "wasn't sure" be found. Early statements released indicated "foul play was expected".

Not to rule out hanging, but if cause of death will assist in identifying the perpetrator, we can have confidence in the fact that LE knows exactly how it occurred.

 

[MistyWaters]

could you post a picture of the "undisturbed" leaves at the CS. I have only seen pictures taken from the other side of the CS tape looking in. The distance in those pictures make it impossible to tell if the leaves have been disturbed.

I agree, in photos only a corner of the crime scene area is visible. The mere presence of dozens of LE and medical teams swarming the entire crime scene site should cause the leaves to appear disturbed.

 

[DeDee]

The leaves were undisturbed in the area marked by crime scene yellow tape on RLs property. The image has been posted numerous times.

could you post a picture of the "undisturbed" leaves at the CS. I have only seen pictures taken from the other side of the CS tape looking in. The distance in those pictures make it impossible to tell if the leaves have been disturbed.

We have several close up images of the CS. There is even one where it shows a bouquet of flowers that the family apparently was allowed to place on the site within the borders of the CS tape. Can't get much closer than that. There is no evidence, that I have seen, that indicates any sign of leaves being overturned. None.

 

[StarrChance]

I found a similar post here right before the big PC. One time post.

Would you be able to post that or point me in the right direction?

 

[midwestseeker]

Yes you are right the media is being very quiet too for that matter. The media asked very detailed and pointed questions in the beginning and then it seemed like they decided to follow LE's lead.

I would expect the media to have been pressing for press conferences/updates but for some reason they have not been doing that. The media has been content to do stories with family but I don't see them pestering LE, which should be expected, especially by this time. Makes me wonder if LE told media this was a different type of case and asked for their cooperation.

Seems like a cat and mouse game going on here with media and even families being patient while the cat stalks the mouse. We here at WS seem to be more impatient about this than family or media- that seems odd.

This is what has bothered me the most. I don't understand the silence from the families or, especially, the media. I have never seen this much media silence in a major murder investigation before. It just does not make sense.

 

[midwestseeker]

So then why would you not come forward , it's a very small town so if you was on that bridge at that time and you are innocent you would of come forward by now.

After watching RL's life turned upside down, I am not sure I would come forward.

 

[OneParticularHarbor]

We have several close up images of the CS. There is even one where it shows a bouquet of flowers that the family apparently was allowed to place on the site within the borders of the CS tape. Can't get much closer than that. There is no evidence, that I have seen, that indicates any sign of leaves being overturned. None.

The folks who processed the crime scene would have bagged and removed all leaves etc. from the immediate area the girls were found as well as any secondary areas suspected of being involved. So IMO IF the image of the flowers was on the precise spot they were found, then the leaves got blown back onto that area, is the only explanation I have for that. I also can't find any pictures online purporting to be the precise location of the CS, just pics of the general location. Please share links?

 

[MistyWaters]

The folks who processed the crime scene would have bagged and removed all leaves etc. from the immediate area the girls were found as well as any secondary areas suspected of being involved. So IMO IF the image of the flowers was on the precise spot they were found, then the leaves got blown back onto that area, is the only explanation I have for that. I also can't find any pictures online purporting to be the precise location of the CS, just pics of the general location. Please share links?

In one of the videos of LE interviews I watched (sorry didn't keep the link) it was remarked that they "turned over every leaf". Considering the high profile LE involvement, a thorough investigation searching for crime scene evidence definitely would result in disturbed leaves. By the time the blockades were removed, it makes sense the scene was restored to a semblance of its natural state.