IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #61

[Rtaylorsctt]

Welcome Rtaylor. If you click the 'reply with quote' options it is easier to see which post you are referring to. There are no specifics about how the girls died so anything you read about shooting will most likely be a theory or speculation . I know I have speculated sometimes. Hope this helps.

Thank you! I actually realized that once I posted my response. I assumed it was pure speculation... Great people and fantastic posts in this forum. I'm so happy to see there is still attention and effort being put into this sad case.

 

[Shiressleuth]

WADR I do know everyone here is trying hard to figure out the small details of the pictures from the video however Im sure LE knows what is in the pictures. Either from their own enhancements, and/or the audio they had to endure. (we the public did not get the best shots of the stills, sorry if that upsets people) it was enough for anyone to say yes its so and so.. if they know him. I think from that what they really needed was someone to say, yes thats so and so... he didnt show for work/was late/made sad excuse/ had injuries etc etc they need more witnesses I think.

Well if LE want him identified they should perhaps give us those best shots of BG now if they want to catch him. It has not been enough to id him unfortunately.

 

[Oregonmama]

i think the first thing you would have to do to collect the reward is actually talk to the police, and that is something RL is not doing. i would think the the perimeter of the crime scene would be somewhat of equal distance from the girls no matter what side of it you were looking in from. they wouldn't put it around the edge of where the girls were found.

Can you share your thoughts on why RL needs to talk? JMO, if i was in jail, I wouldnt talk to anyone but my lawyer!

 

[Momma2cam]

I still go on about the MOTIVE.

If any party known to the girls wanted them gone, for whatever reason, then they would have done so, perhaps arranging a trap. But to do so on the Monon High Bridge is so unlikely. Not saying it's impossible, but is it so durn unlikely.

Respectfully snipped. Why do you consider the bridge unlikely?


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[gliving]

Piggybacking on your post Shire, yes I asked if anyone could find a link to show a 75+ yr old man who killed two young teen girls.

The links lilowlet provided (thanks for trying owl) while showing elderly kill (which I don't dispute) were not linked to children in any way.

The murder of these two girls is an aberration in every way. I've googled many times to find similar cases with an elderly murderer. As you say, it's very rare.

Anyway, I did happen upon this "fiction novel". It sounds really good and I've added it to my wishlist. $10 is a bit rich for my reading pleasure.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055UTQ4G/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Turn of Mind by Alice LaPlante

"A stunning first novel, both literary and thriller, about a retired orthopedic surgeon with dementia, Turn of Mind has already received worldwide attention. With unmatched patience and a pulsating intensity, Alice LaPlante brings us deep into a brilliant woman’s deteriorating mind, where the impossibility of recognizing reality can be both a blessing and a curse."

 

[Jabarn]

Respectfully snipped. Why do you consider the bridge unlikely?


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Mainly because of the images I have seen of it. At 60 feet high (best of my recollection) to attempt a killing based on a motive of some sort of personal beef seems unrealistic to me. I know stranger things have happened. If a retaliation was the motive, I would think the suspect would look toward a more reasonable location. All that being said, only my hunch.

ETA: Why wouldn't the same logic apply to a random thought disordered psychopath? I thought of that after I read my reply here. I am not sure, but I see a man with personality damage taking more risks. Again, only a hunch. I don't know any more than anyone else here, but like everyone else, want this guy caught.

 

[Momma2cam]

Mainly because of the images I have seen of it. At 60 feet high (best of my recollection) to attempt a killing based on a motive of some sort of personal beef seems unrealistic to me. I know stranger things have happened. If a retaliation was the motive, I would think the suspect would look toward a more reasonable location. All that being said, only my hunch.

Thanks for clarifying. I can see your point but tend to think the opposite as the bridge could have been used as a trap in itself. The murder also didn't likely happen on the bridge.

I find it more unlikely that a random crime of opportunity would happen in such an off the beaten path, unknown location outside of the local area. Jmo.

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[Bird of Paradise]

The murder of these two girls is an aberration in every way. I've googled many times to find similar cases with an elderly murderer. As you say, it's very rare.

Respectfully snipped

Were you able to find any case where an elderly person killed two young teens? And if so, in the USA?

 

[Jabarn]

Thanks for clarifying. I can see your point but tend to think the opposite as the bridge could have been used as a trap in itself. The murder also didn't likely happen on the bridge.

I find it more unlikely that a random crime of opportunity would happen in such an off the beaten path, unknown location outside of the local area. Jmo.

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Gotcha, and I thought and thought about it, and chased a lot of rabbits while doing so.

If it was a crime committed by someone with beef against the girls, I could fathom one guy on one side of the bridge herding them toward another one waiting on the other end. Without assistance, the retaliation murder angle doesn't make sense to me.

After all this time, though, there is no evidence of that, so I go back to to the random guy with little fear response who didn't know them, and stalked them down the bridge.

Appreciate your thoughts and hopefully the investigators will sort this out soon.

 

[TeaTime]

He may have gone across from his land and seen from the position of the forensic tents. It was stated also that the girls were 50-60 feet from the creek edge.

He may have asked and been told too.

 

[Hazelnutty]

Checking in for any updates or changes. A + L ❤

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[Momma2cam]

Gotcha, and I thought and thought about it, and chased a lot of rabbits while doing so.

If it was a crime committed by someone with beef against the girls, I could fathom one guy on one side of the bridge herding them toward another one waiting on the other end. Without assistance, the retaliation murder angle doesn't make sense to me.

After all this time, though, there is no evidence of that, so I go back to to the random guy with little fear response who didn't know them, and stalked them down the bridge.

Appreciate your thoughts and hopefully the investigators will sort this out soon.

Yes, great points. It is so disturbing the the case remains unsolved with so much evidence available essentially immediately. I never thought we would still be here almost 4 months later without any real progress. I know 4 months is not long for the average case but most don't have this kind of evidence right away.

I'm leaning toward it not being completely random but am not convinced of a retaliation motive. I'm thinking that BG knew they would be there but not necessarily that they know him or expected him to be there. Could have been a stalking situation, followed on social media, etc. Maybe that is somewhat "wishful" thinking in that there would be more opportunity for a trail to link BG there. After this long, that isn't necessarily looking promising, I suppose.



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[GeneWood]

As I understand it, DNA from the perp was recovered. I'm an amateur genealogist and have done a few personal DNA kits for Ancestry.com and some others. So have literally millions of other people. Databases exist of millions who have voluntarily presented their own DNA. If someone has thought of this already, I apologize in advance, but couldn't the perp's DNA be compared to those databases? The thing is, he is related to someone. He has parents, aunts, uncles, brothers, sisters, cousins, etc. Do I think he has done one of these kits, no, but maybe his first cousin did, maybe his great aunt did. I really think the LE has nothing, the FBI has nothing. They're going to let this case go cold. Do we want justice for those two poor girls? Do we want to catch this sicko or not?

 

[Lilowlet]

Np yeah it's weird. And hard to find any lol. So that helped me. Imo always
Eta. Sorry o was replying this to bop and the old ppl convo
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[Jennifer17]

Yes, great points. It is so disturbing the the case remains unsolved with so much evidence available essentially immediately. I never thought we would still be here almost 4 months later without any real progress. I know 4 months is not long for the average case but most don't have this kind of evidence right away.

I'm leaning toward it not being completely random but am not convinced of a retaliation motive. I'm thinking that BG knew they would be there but not necessarily that they know him or expected him to be there. Could have been a stalking situation, followed on social media, etc. Maybe that is somewhat "wishful" thinking in that there would be more opportunity for a trail to link BG there. After this long, that isn't necessarily looking promising, I suppose.



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I think that he may have seen them being dropped off and followed them. Is there a reason that people think that he and they crossed the creek? Why couldn't he have ordered them down on the side of the creek that they were found on? Have I missed something about that?

 

[Momma2cam]

I think that he may have seen them being dropped off and followed them. Is there a reason that people think that he and they crossed the creek? Why couldn't he have ordered them down on the side of the creek that they were found on? Have I missed something about that?

IIRC, speculation about crossing the creek is based on the direction both Abby and BG are walking on the bridge in the photos. Assuming the confrontation occurred on the bridge shortly after the photo was taken of BG, the theory is that it would have been easier to order them down the hill as soon as they exited the bridge on that side, which would have required them to cross the creek based on where the girls were found. Otherwise, they would have had to cross back over the bridge, which arguably would have been riskier to be seen or get caught.

I've also read the theory that perhaps the confrontation didn't happen until they all had crossed back over the bridge. He could have been waiting there for them and ordered them down then and then walked, without crossing the creek, to the location they were found.

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[Jennifer17]

IIRC, speculation about crossing the creek is based on the direction both Abby and BG are walking on the bridge in the photos. Assuming the confrontation occurred on the bridge shortly after the photo was taken of BG, the theory is that it would have been easier to order them down the hill as soon as they exited the bridge on that side, which would have required them to cross the creek based on where the girls were found. Otherwise, they would have had to cross back over the bridge, which arguably would have been riskier to be seen or get caught.

I've also read the theory that perhaps the confrontation didn't happen until they all had crossed back over the bridge. He could have been waiting there for them and ordered them down then and then walked, without crossing the creek, to the location they were found.

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And LE would know that because their clothes would have to be wet even if they crossed on a shallow crossing, but we don't what they know.

 

[Momma2cam]

And LE would know that because their clothes would have to be wet even if they crossed on a shallow crossing, but we don't what they know.

We only know that a reporter spotted girls clothing in the creek. May or may not have been the girls- was not verified further.

You also may be interested in reading the scanner thread.

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[Jennifer17]

We only know that a reporter spotted girls clothing in the creek. May or may not have been the girls- was not verified further.

You also may be interested in reading the scanner thread.

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Oh dear, the spotting of the girl's clothing in the creek is very, very upsetting to me. How many people would have thrown clothing into the creek on a winter afternoon?

 

[expatCanada]

And LE would know that because their clothes would have to be wet even if they crossed on a shallow crossing, but we don't what they know.

READ our scanner thread, please:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ty-German-and-Abigail-Williams-Scanner-Thread