IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #69

[deedee21]

Just throwing this out there but do you think they would do that before they sent the detectives out there? Wouldn't it make sense for LE to ask the witnesses if that was the guy they saw before sending the detectives out to CO to interview him?

They may have. Im sure they are covering all their bases. Including getting their hands on every clothing item he owns.

 

[kc1023]

ick I feel gross typing this - IF a hatchet was involved in A&L's case, he surely had to be a terrible mess afterwards which to me says he pretty much had to have had the car. it seems to me it could potentially be A and/or L's dna on his property that would clinch the case vs the other way around


JMO

 

[Jabarn]

http://www.wthr.com/article/state-p...o-interview-person-of-interest-in-delphi-case

"He was pretty much living under the over pass, sleeping in my son's car. He never really had a place stay," Bortner said. Until the family found him one. Was he ever scary or violent? "No, not while he was in my house," she answered.

I still wonder if the BG was sleeping in RL's outbuildings without RL's knowledge... it seems the dots may be coming together. Then again, only time will tell.

 

[deedee21]

DN was on the run. Had his wife go along. He could not risk her showing up at court with him being a no show for their court date.

 

[FlossyMay]

Did they impound his car or did the wife take it?

 

[deedee21]

http://www.wthr.com/article/state-p...o-interview-person-of-interest-in-delphi-case

"He was pretty much living under the over pass, sleeping in my son's car. He never really had a place stay," Bortner said. Until the family found him one. Was he ever scary or violent? "No, not while he was in my house," she answered.

I still wonder if the BG was sleeping in RL's outbuildings without RL's knowledge... it seems the dots may be coming together. Then again, only time will tell.

You could be right about that. Ron Logan did call 911 when he found a man in one of his outbuildings. He took off before police arrived.

 

[Megster024]

Did they impound his car or did the wife take it?

I would imagine it would have to be taken in. It's expired regardless, but they are going to test it like crazy. Imo


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[RiceCasparr]

The possibility leaves me speechless. I had totally forgotten about the couple that was mentioned. The mind reels......

I think she had an OBGYN appt that day and they weren't on speaking terms based on SM posts, so doubtful. Also no one said "a man and pregnant woman" which would've seemed important. Also...idpeople saw him with a woman and then saw the pic of same man in same outfit wouldn't they be aware of that?
JMO

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[deedee21]

http://www.wthr.com/article/state-p...o-interview-person-of-interest-in-delphi-case

"He was pretty much living under the over pass, sleeping in my son's car. He never really had a place stay," Bortner said. Until the family found him one. Was he ever scary or violent? "No, not while he was in my house," she answered.

I still wonder if the BG was sleeping in RL's outbuildings without RL's knowledge... it seems the dots may be coming together. Then again, only time will tell.

You could be right about that. Ron Logan did call 911 when he found a man in one of his outbuildings. He took off before police arrived.

 

[margarita25]

Gah, I've been here for 6 hours and still haven't caught up on this thread...and I'm racing because I know what it's like to fall behind to that never being able to catch up point. Anyway!

Thinking more about all this DNA stuff (I hope I can work this post out clearly because right now it's all just a big jumble in my head).

DNA Points/Possibilities to Ponder:

1. They have collected DNA from the crime scene area. This DNA:

A) May be related to the perp.

B) May not be related to the perp.

*Either way one can possibly conclude it has not positively matched anyone in CODIS to date.

2. So, IF DN's DNA is already in CODIS (one would assume), then:

A. The DNA referred to in #1 has not produced a hit/match to him to date (considering they have been running it, and frequently over the months, as more cases are processed and entered, as I think they would be).

3. If DN's DNA is not already in CODIS for some strange reason, the newly collected sample:

A: May produce a hit to the DNA referred to in #1.
(Case solved)

B) May not produce a hit to the DNA referred to in #1.

If this is the case, then:

aa. It could mean 1B, that the DNA collected from the crime scene is not necessarily that of the perp, so DN could still be BG.

bb. The DNA collected at the crime scene is that of BG, but doesn't match DN, therefore excluding DN as the suspect.

4.) Adding possibility of possible second perp's DNA to mix.

********

I tend to wonder, maybe LE doesn't even know if they have BG's DNA.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

My apologies if this question has already been discussed, but: If DN is a registered sex offender, wouldn't his DNA already be on file somewhere, like CODIS? And if so, why wouldn't LE have been able to find a match using the DNA (if any was recovered) collected at the Delphi crime scene?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Good point. What interests me is that there was an effort to conceal the body, however crude. To buy time to flee the area before the body was discovered? I’d think so. Does it make sense that DN would shoot this man and then hang around the area, calling attention to himself with the hatchet threats? Not to me.

Well hanging around threatening people with axes and lurking around search parties after a murder is a bit idiotic or extremely unlucky.
I do think he had a psychotic break. I think living in a car with a unhappy wife and 3 very young children would bring the best to their knees. I think she was brought along on their journey because she had a valid license and a car and he could use them for cover.
I think this guy has a split personality and he's wrestling with some serious demons.

 

[Medstudies]

So he would have had to make it back down to Bloomington somehow. Didn't the police ask in that initial PC for people to report if they saw a hitchhiker?

Actually, Bloomington is in Monroe county, situated a little further away. Morgan County borders Greenwood, IN. Thus, a slightly quicker trip. And absolutely, it would be fairly easy to hitch, for instance IN-39 is a straight 90mile shot. 90-120mins depending on the exact community with in Morgan County. (Martinsville, Paragon, etc)

 

[Inthedetails]

ick I feel gross typing this - IF a hatchet was involved in A&L's case, he surely had to be a terrible mess afterwards which to me says he pretty much had to have had the car. it seems to me it could potentially be A and/or L's dna on his property that would clinch the case vs the other way around


JMO

Excellent point.

jmo

 

[deedee21]

Its not unusual for a killer to lurk around a crime scene. Arrogance gets the better of common sense.

 

[finine]

Re the red car, I don't think this is his car. His wife had a job and I'd assume this was her car to travel back and forth to work. According to the heavy.com "5 facts" article, they were on the outs at the time of A&L deaths and he was living under a bridge -- so I'd guess the red car lead is not applicable for that timeframe.

 

[Megster024]

My apologies if this question has already been discussed, but: If DN is a registered sex offender, wouldn't his DNA already be on file somewhere, like CODIS? And if so, why wouldn't LE have been able to find a match using the DNA (if any was recovered) collected at the Delphi crime scene?

It's a valid question, my understanding was Indiana requires DNA for certain registered sexual convictions, not all. We just passed a law in July I believe requiring DNA from all felons but he was long gone.

https://www.in.gov/judiciary/probation/files/prob-sex-offender-changes06.pdf


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[georgiajean]

Reminding myself that trying to make sense of what criminals and/or those who are involved in drugs/addiction do often does not make sense. Instead, expect that what they do does not make sense for a typical healthy person, and will always be done to protect themselves from any consequences for their actions. DN has had so much interaction with law enforcement since way back to 2002 when he started getting traffic violations for speeding at about 16 years old (based on an age of 31) (this from court records in South Carolina). He checked in every week to the Marion Co. for his sex offender registration starting in Jan until moving in April. He knew how to play by the rules, but then doesn't show up for a hearing and lands in jail for 2 weeks (in the video in this article, they talk about his regular check ins and then jail time http://cbs4indy.com/2017/09/29/poli...ndiana-the-same-week-girls-bodies-were-found/ ). It doesn't make sense, which takes me back to drug use/abuse. When I look at the dramatic change in DN's appearance in the last year, or even since Feb, it looks like opioids or meth. just my opinion.

Also reminding myself that criminals and addicts will tell some aspect of the truth--enough to convince themselves they have told the truth. So when DN said that someone had nearly run them off the road and he shook his fist, I am guessing that a cyclist nearly ran them off the road or off the trail, so he targeted cyclists in his threats with the hatchet. Perhaps, if TW's death is connected to DN, TW had a near miss as he was heading up the trail so DN had to get back at him (the easily enraged DN, madly thinking he was protecting his children or something).

 

[Lauranyc83]

My apologies if this question has already been discussed, but: If DN is a registered sex offender, wouldn't his DNA already be on file somewhere, like CODIS? And if so, why wouldn't LE have been able to find a match using the DNA (if any was recovered) collected at the Delphi crime scene?

I'm wondering this too. His offense was not a physical sexual attack, but more so exposing himself to woman and their daughters. Is DNA collected regardless of the offense?

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[Medstudies]

IIRC, early on a witness reported seeing a red car with paper plates parked in the parking lot.Does anyone recall if this was ever ruled out? I am assuming it was but don't remember for sure.


If paper temp tags would def line up with them being expired now. pic seems to have non paper plates here
<modsnip>

Gah! I wish he'd had a regular Hoosier plate. They are coded so the first two characters ID the county of registration (i.e. 48xxx=Madison County, 49xxx=Marion County) ---> going to see if the flag plates have similar tracking.