IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #82

[Shiressleuth]

BBM

Your pun made me cringe just a little, but it's a possibility.

Still, I don't think an O/O would be likely to have the knowledge of the terrain that BG exhibited. I still think that BG has stronger ties to the area than just passing through on a trucking route.

Did you read the forum comments? These drivers aren't just passing thru but do regular pick ups there with long waiting periods so they will know these areas.

My daughter's bf is a HGV driver. He goes all over the UK, sleeping overnight in his cab often. He has a little terrier dog who goes everywhere with him 24/7. He doesnt have a partner ride with him.

Ok enough truck talk. It's a possibility anyway.

 

[kat913]

IP is a really large site. If the O/O was given a time the next day they could decide to stay and sleep in their unit that night in the Parking area. IP is a 24 hour operation. They have to weigh it up as explained in the forum. If they turn the job down because of a change in the waiting time they then have to argue the toss with IP for the amount of their reimbursement. They don't have a line but get given a time but it can change as live cargo coming in takes precedence and then their times get put back. It is explained in the forum.

Time is money Shiresleuth...if things don't happen quickly or on time (like the forum read) O/O will move on to another load...waiting for a load is taking time and money away from the possibility of another load. Only company drivers would be mandated to stay and wait and again they can not venture far unless they have a team partner. This is my experience as well as what the forum posters expressed.

But....if there was a partner....things could be extremely different. One could have taken a long walk to smoke a joint/drink in the woods etc. Anything is poossible if one stays with truck and the other goes off for awhile.

 

[heartgoesout]

A gazillion, moo. Here's a start.

Forum: Long Haul Truckers & Neal Falls
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?604-Long-Haul-Truckers-amp-Neal-Falls

Also, A&E did a show called "The Killing Season" in which Websleuths was heavily featured. There much discussion about Truckers and SKs.
Here's one discussion link:

TKS S1 E6: "A Killer on the Road".
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?322433-TKS-S1-E6-A-Killer-on-the-Road

Highway Serial Killings Initiative
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?155462-Highway-Serial-Killings-Initiative

Violent Criminal Apprehension Program
Part 2: The Highway Serial Killings Initiative
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/violent-criminal-apprehension-program-part-2

"More than a decade ago, analysts for the FBI’s Violent Criminal Apprehension Program (ViCAP)—the only national database of serial crimes—began to see a marked increase in the number of bodies recovered along the side of the road. A majority of the victims were truck-stop prostitutes, and it turned out that many of the suspects were long-haul truckers. “We had an inordinate number of victims and offenders from this rather specific population pool,” Palazzolo explained.

To make matters worse, these cases are extremely difficult to investigate. A long-haul driver can pick up a prostitute at a truck stop in Georgia, rape and murder her, and dump her body on the side of the road in Florida later that day. The victim has no connection to the area where she was found, and there may be no forensic evidence to collect because the crime was committed hundreds of miles away. The local police detectives investigating the case might have little experience dealing with a crime of this nature and may be faced with few, if any, leads."

*more at link

FBI makes a connection between long-haul truckers, serial killings
http://articles.latimes.com/2009/apr/05/local/me-serialkillers5

Why So Many Truckers are Serial Killers: Jobs that Break the Law the Most
https://newsblaze.com/usnews/crime/...llers-jobs-that-break-the-law-the-most_79409/

"However, it’s fair to say that this is a career that a serial killer would aspire towards. It’s a career that involves trekking across the country, jumping state lines, gaining access to an anonymous world and to the hidden side of the United States, and being afforded the ability to kill with veritable impunity."

Snip

"And the stats back that up, because there are currently “at least” 25 serial killing truck drivers in prison. And when you consider that serial killers in this profession are more likely to avoid detection, and that there are thousands of unsolved murders littering the highways of the US, then this number is likely to be much higher outside of prison."

Snip

"Again though, it’s important to understand that serial killers are attracted to trucking, and not the other way around."

10 Serial-Killing Long-Haul Truckers
https://listverse.com/2015/10/31/10-serial-killing-long-haul-truckers/

Thanks! I saw all this too. But of all the serial killers the actual percentage is pretty small I see.

 

[rsd1200]

Very loosely following so forgive if this has been looked at and has been not seen as a viable theory, but, iirc, LG had recently been to Ky. to visit her Mom. Could she have come in contact with someone in Ky? Somehow? Someone who then tracked her to IN? Maybe he didn't know that AW would be there, or didn't care. Is it possible that the assailant, had made inappropriate advances, during LGs visit in Ky, and was then afraid she'd say something? Just tossing it out there.

 

[margarita25]

Ohio....? (Thinking out loud.)

 

[kat913]

Very loosely following so forgive if this has been looked at and has been not seen as a viable theory, but, iirc, LG had recently been to Ky. to visit her Mom. Could she have come in contact with someone in Ky? Somehow? Someone who then tracked her to IN? Maybe he didn't know that AW would be there, or didn't care. Is it possible that the assailant, had made inappropriate advances, during LGs visit in Ky, and was then afraid she'd say something? Just tossing it out there.

See how that opens possibilities of one of the girls being noticed ahead of that weekend? That's kind of what i have been thinking of as well.

Thanks rsd!!

 

[heartgoesout]

This weekend I have easily spotted 4 men (complete strangers) who fit the sketch to a T !!
I'm a few states away and I side eye these men, based solely on appearance.
I can't imagine how difficult it must be for the community of Delphi to find a new normal after this happened.

 

[margarita25]

"Situational-type sex offenders victimizing children do not have a true sexual
preference for children. They may molest them, however, for a wide variety of
situational reasons. They are more likely to view and be aroused by adult pornog-
raphy, but might engage in sex with children in certain situations. Situational sex
offenders frequently molest readily available children they have easy access to and
control over such as their own or any others living with them. Pubescent teenagers
are high-risk, viable sexual targets. Younger children may also be targeted because
they are weak, vulnerable, or available. Morally indiscriminate (i.e., psychopathic or
antisocial) situational offenders may select children, especially adolescents, simply
because they have the opportunity and think they can get away with it. Social misfits
may situationally select child victims out of insecurity and curiosity. Others may
have low self-esteem and use children as substitutes for preferred adults."


Child Molesters: A Behavioral Analysis - National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
PDFMissing Kids › desktop › publications
http://www.missingkids.com/content/dam/ncmec/en_us/desktop/publications/nc70.pdf

 

[kat913]

Did you read the forum comments? These drivers aren't just passing thru but do regular pick ups there with long waiting periods so they will know these areas.

My daughter's bf is a HGV driver. He goes all over the UK, sleeping overnight in his cab often. He has a little terrier dog who goes everywhere with him 24/7. He doesnt have a partner ride with him.

Ok enough truck talk. It's a possibility anyway.

Just to lighten the mood Shire...see the terrier could stay in the cab (some dogs can even drive...I have seen it on the internet) and the driver could wander...:dance:

 

[margarita25]

This weekend I have easily spotted 4 men (complete strangers) who fit the sketch to a T !!
I'm a few states away and I side eye these men, based solely on appearance.
I can't imagine how difficult it must be for the community of Delphi to find a new normal after this happened.

(Me too, back to seeing so many people who resemble BG....)

 

[Hatfield]

This weekend I have easily spotted 4 men (complete strangers) who fit the sketch to a T !!
I'm a few states away and I side eye these men, based solely on appearance.
I can't imagine how difficult it must be for the community of Delphi to find a new normal after this happened.

JMO
I have lived in a few different areas of the country and one thing I found interesting is that certain areas tend to have people that share characteristics. Not everyone of course but in general there are certain traits that some areas will have as more common.

When I looked at booking photos for the IN area I saw quite a few different people that could have been included in a lineup as the BG guy. It surprised me how many people I saw that made me look twice at them as possible BG guy. It was right about then that I gave up trying to find matches to the BG just based on the sketch. We are going to need more than that sketch. We need something more.

I started to look for the exact blue jacket with loop hook enclosure and was not successful in finding any photos with that jacket.

 

[margarita25]

Have we been able to find/ascertain which deliveries were made, and when, at the plant on 2/13/17? I know the FBI has been all over that place...

 

[margarita25]

Hmmmm:

"We’re constantly investing millions of dollars in new construction, training and technologies to maintain a leadership role and improve product quality and service for our customers."
https://indianapackerscorp.com/company/profile

Any construction/outside contractors/training at the plant on 2/13/17? Again the FBI would know this...maybe if it was someone who was at the plant they wouldn't be registered as an employee (as we've been discussing re: deliveries, etc), hence their lack of detection. But then, would this mean they would also have to know about the bridge in advance, meaning could you just come upon the park/trails/bridge area if you were raveling to a from a job or delivery at the Plant? I would think so, considering it's a couple miles away.

In the early threads we had some good map visuals of the plant and it's route to the bridge, iirc...

Also, again, what about Iowa (Lizzie and Lyric), as related to possible delivery/connection to the Plant? Iirc wondergirl had come up with some stuff?

This is so frustrating...

Eta: My best guess is he knows the area due to deer hunting/fishing, if not due to this plant. Moo.

 

[margarita25]

Time is money Shiresleuth...if things don't happen quickly or on time (like the forum read) O/O will move on to another load...waiting for a load is taking time and money away from the possibility of another load. Only company drivers would be mandated to stay and wait and again they can not venture far unless they have a team partner. This is my experience as well as what the forum posters expressed.

But....if there was a partner....things could be extremely different. One could have taken a long walk to smoke a joint/drink in the woods etc. Anything is poossible if one stays with truck and the other goes off for awhile.

Hmmmm...

In the episode of "Evil Live Here" I referenced above, the SK's wife found some underwear in his truck; when confronted, he blamed it on his trucking partner.

 

[margarita25]

Indiana Packers Corp. Builds New Cold Storage Distribution Center
Dec 7th 2016
https://indianapackerscorp.com/comp...na-packers-corp-builds-new-cold-storage-distr

"DELPHI, Ind.—Indiana Packers Corporation (IPC) the makers of INDIANA KITCHEN® branded pork products, working closely with the Carroll County Economic Development Corporation (CCEDC), announces the construction of an 99,000-square-foot cold storage distribution center, alongside its existing pork-production plant in Delphi, Indiana.

Without question, this expansion is a major milestone in our company’s growth strategy,” says Russ Yearwood, President and Chief Operating Officer of Indiana Packers Corporation. “The expansion allows us to improve inventory logistics, speed up our delivery capacity, and most importantly, better serve our growing regional and global customer base.” The project is expected to be completed by August 2017.

Key to the project are several infrastructure improvements, including a traffic study and roadway reconstruction, enabling Indiana Packers Corporation to optimize its existing property."

******

Hmmm..."roadway construction"....

Idk...I feel like his connection to that area is deeper, but maybe not...IK chose places completely not connected to him for obvious reasons.

I think the answer possibly lies in deer hunting, moo.

 

[Hatfield]

Yes but he would have tractor and trailer to lug around as he left for a different load in a diferent place. In other words, I doubt anyone with a truck could have left that spot (unless going to another site to load up) unless they were a team and then one could have left. So, hypothetically one could have left and commit the crime and the other may be aware or not.

The trucker theory could make a lot of things fit if he was on his way out of town with the next load the day after the killings.

It sure would explain how he disappeared totally from the area.
Lets assume for a minute that he was due to leave at a certain time the next day for a long haul to another state and he had to blow the time.

So maybe he had done that same trucking run before multiple times and he stayed the night before in that exact area where he knew nobody bothers him. But this time he decides to snatch a girl to take her to his spot and didnt expect search parties to show up.

So his plan gets ruined as soon as he started to hear people yelling for the girls. So he quickly kills them and makes his way out of there on foot. He would have to had moved on foot to get back close to his rig before taking off the next day.

This theory could really explain why LE had electronic Billboards across the country. It could also explain BG clothing he had on. He had layered clothes and things to be able to sleep the night in the woods.

It also explains why it is so difficult to identify BG. He knew the area well but likely did not live there at the time of the killings.

So the trucking company would have to know the schedules and who were the drivers for the routes that next day. It sure would limit the suspect pool down to just a handful of people.

I hope LE has gone to the shipping company and gone through everyone that had routes that day. But after seeing the failures that happened with the FBI in Florida school shooting I am not comfortable they have done that yet.

So is there any way to know who had routes that next day? Probably not for us but there has to be a way to find out that information. It needs to be pursued IMO.

 

[margarita25]

Indiana Packers Employee Reviews
https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Indiana-Packers/reviews

"Cons

Short Breaks at non-scheduled times"

( *many posts citing cons as having "short" breaks (thinking about window of opportunity)

********

"Cons

You only get two breaks for the 8.25 hour shifts. A 15 and a 30."

******

Fwiw, "forklift"

"At the beginning of the shift we stocked products from the conveyor belt. Heavy use of stand up forklift to pull product and store in refridgerator and freezer"

&

"..was certified to operate a forklift"

*****

security guard
security asi (Former Employee) – Delphi, IN –April 22, 2016

"I check in trailers, did perimeter checks, and check the trucks weight on the way out of the plant. I really enjoyed this job and the responsibilities that I had."

(Again, assuming FBI has all these logs)

******

"Must have a strong stomach for blood Willing to get dirty"

(Shudder)

******

"...you would have just a small window to take a break meaning like five mins of break and twelve for lunch"

********

"...i wasnt use to working with chemicals"

*****

"Very cold environment,"

****

"Just not my type of work do not like killing animals."

(Shudder...we know some SKs like to kill animals)

******

"Pros

30 minute lunch"

******

"Most of my co-workers did not speak english which can make sometimes hard to communicate what may need to be."

*****

"My day would start at 3:30pm and would go to 12:00am but usually more like 1:00 or 2:00am"

******

"it was a great job in which they gave opportunity to those who have been icarcerated with a felony"

( cough )

******

"A typical day is doing about 5,000 boxes which means thats how many bellys you will be boxing to be shipped."

(Who picks up these boxes, and when?)

*****

"...skills in waste water"

(Jumping off this:

"Indiana Packers Corporation Wastewater Tank, Delphi, IN

Indiana Packers is a large hog processing plant in Delphi, Indiana. Work at this facility demands very strict attention to cleanliness and housekeeping, compliance with USDA standards, and production schedules cannot be interrupted. Steinberger has performed numerous projects at this facility including: a waste water treatment plant, water treatment building, stock yard expansion, office expansion, and numerous other incidental projects."

http://www.sciteam.com/projects/con...ackers-corporation-wastewater-tank-delphi-in/ )

*****

https://indianapackerscorp.com/employment/careers

"Please apply in person:
Lafayette Employment Center
976 Mezzanine Drive
Lafayette, IN 47905"

*****

Noting another IP Location in Frankfort....

Examples of jobs posted lately:

Industrial Maintenance - Mechanical and Electrical

Indiana Packers Full-time Production Position - Direct Hire

Indiana Packers Corporation –*Frankfort, IN

Utilities Technician

Indiana Packers Quality Assurance 2nd Shift

https://www.glassdoor.com/Job/frank...99&s=21&rdserp=true&srs=EI_JOBS&jl=2663909768

****

Glass door reviews/positions:

"Shipping"
"IE Intern"
"Machine Operator"
"stack off"
"Quality Assurance Technician"
"Supervisor"

https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Indiana-Packers-Reviews-E20927.htm

 

[Shiressleuth]

Just to lighten the mood Shire...see the terrier could stay in the cab (some dogs can even drive...I have seen it on the internet) and the driver could wander...:dance:

No the terrier goes inside the blue jacket to be carried across the bridge of course. :wink:

 

[heartgoesout]

Margarita25, I can expand on the possible temporary jobs IP could have brought in for this expansion. In my area there are generally not a lot of options for shorts term apartment leases.

One angle could be checking out which apartment complexes possibly partnered with IP for short term leases. Is there a complex or even private landlord through word of mouth IP employees steer towards?

Maintenance men at said complexes see and know everything about the residents whether it be 5 units or 400 units. They are a wealth of knowledge. They can tell you who works days, who is having affairs, who got a new car, etc...

This angle would take an amazing amount of man hours to even begin exploring.

 

[kat913]

No the terrier goes inside the blue jacket to be carried across the bridge of course. :wink:

Good one Shire!!:floorlaugh: