IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[sleuther0192837465]

If he knew people, meaning multiple witnesses, would be on the trails, that is very, very risky. Why was he so confident?

Maybe because he had gotten away with past crimes? MOO


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[Tricia]

Good spot. Hadn't noticed that. Has anybody asked? And is it the same person?

Hi Everyone,

You can't tell but I am literally on my knees BEGGING you to not go down this road.

Think of this logically. If this person was a suspect in any way shape or form we would have heard about it by now.

No need to discuss this person at all.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[margarita25]

While there are very obvious similarites, numerous, between L and L / A and L, there is a reason I get skeptical about it being the same perp. Here is why.

I watch a loooot of shows on ID and am constantly coming across cases (often solved) which involve dual victims. The Killing Fields, and more...

I have seen soo many cases here where things seem so similar, yet a rule out is made. MJK is an example of this, him being ruled out in L and L. His profile of dual victims, near the area, even had SM connections to a RSO who lives near the girls....

Of course, one of my first posts re: Abby and Libby was this, and I tend to put a lot of value into initial instincts, moo

02-14-2017, 12:31 PM #64
margarita25

"(Shades of Lizzie and Lyric, and Kathlyn and the other girl...)"

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-1&p=13144169#post13144169

*******

Many of you guys who have followed L and L feel a strong connection between these 2 cases, which can not be discounted. Wondergirl iirc, etc....

So, imo it's 50/50.

And if there is a connection maybe it's via hogs/pigs somehow. Or hunting/fishing, moo.

Sometimes killers with dual victims also abduct single victims.

I think there is an equal chance it possibly could be 2 separate nutjobs, moo.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hi Everyone,

You can't tell but I am literally on my knees BEGGING you to not go down this road.

Think of this logically. If this person was a suspect in any way shape or form we would have heard about it by now.

No need to discuss this person at all.

Thank you,
Tricia

So we cannot discuss cases as they appear in the public court records being prosecuted by CaCo?

Is that a general rule or just specific to this perp? Just so we know if we suddenly see someone charged with murder show up in Mycase can we discuss it?

Don't want to be cheeky but am keeping a close eye on what charges those subpoenas are leading too over the next few weeks.

TY for the update and warning.

 

[Tricia]

Mods,
please let us know if we are out of the realms of the rules so we aren't shut down. We don't want that to happen and are trying to behave!

In general please remember if you are talking about someone who is known in this case and you have decided to discuss them as being a person of interest I'm sure the cops would have arrested ANYONE if the evidence fit the crime.

In other words, do not start discussing someone as if they could be the perp if they are already known to us. The cops have already look at everyone with the slightest connection.

If you find a random stranger who you feel is connected you cannot discuss that person. Why? Because can you imagine one day you get hundreds of calls telling you your name is being mentioned on Websleuths in connection with a double murder? We cannot randomly post about strangers until we know they are considered a person of interest.

If you feel strongly you have discovered something that is relevant to the case then please take it to the police first.

Thanks,
Tricia

 

[margarita25]

(I just noticed (again), that our sweet, dearly departed Los started the first thread for Abby and Libby:

IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 13, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #1
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...13-amp-Liberty-German-13-Delphi-13-Feb-2017-1 )

Los and Foxfire, give us a sign. Who killed these girls?

 

[Satchie]

No because when they saw the vehicle they fought and ran so vehicle wasn't involved except to leave the scene on the back roads. JMO.

Why do you say they fought and ran? You can't know that, and how would he have been able to catch them both afterwords?

 

[newredtabby]

In general please remember if you are talking about someone who is known in this case and you have decided to discuss them as being a person of interest I'm sure the cops would have arrested ANYONE if the evidence fit the crime.

In other words, do not start discussing someone as if they could be the perp if they are already known to us. The cops have already look at everyone with the slightest connection.

If you find a random stranger who you feel is connected you cannot discuss that person. Why? Because can you imagine one day you get hundreds of calls telling you your name is being mentioned on Websleuths in connection with a double murder? We cannot randomly post about strangers until we know they are considered a person of interest.

If you feel strongly you have discovered something that is relevant to the case then please take it to the police first.

Thanks,
Tricia

So, we can't talk about anyone LE DOES know, and we can't talk about anyone LE DOESN'T know. Well, that pretty much means no talking about anyone.


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[DeDee]

Friends,
This must stop. Do not in any way jeopardize a double homicide investigation of these two precious girls. We do not need to post all of our thoughts and opinions. I will personally contact Tricia if I read any more at all related to this matter. Just because someone drops a clue doesn't mean it holds value to the investigation.

Please use your good common sense. We are not Law Enforcement. They need to do the real detective work. Not everything we know needs to appear on this public forum. Thank you in advance for holding your cards and not showing them. If this is your first case, please heed these pleas. WS has TOS for a reason.

Two separate things here. I was interested in finding out more about the person<>. And then the 2nd person <>.

Hi Everyone,

You can't tell but I am literally on my knees BEGGING you to not go down this road.

Think of this logically. If this person was a suspect in any way shape or form we would have heard about it by now.

No need to discuss this person at all.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Shiressleuth]

Why do you say they fought and ran? You can't know that, and how would he have been able to catch them both afterwords?

I said it was my opinion - of course I don't know. I think he chased and shot them across the creek. :cow:

 

[DeDee]

So we cannot discuss cases as they appear in the public court records being prosecuted by CaCo?

Is that a general rule or just specific to this perp? Just so we know if we suddenly see someone charged with murder show up in Mycase can we discuss it?

Don't want to be cheeky but am keeping a close eye on what charges those subpoenas are leading too over the next few weeks.

TY for the update and warning.

Logically, this thread is for Abby Williams and Libby German. Why would we be allowed, or even want, to discuss matters not pertaining directly to their murders?

Tricia has warned us time and time again not to select strangers to accuse of their heinous murders. We cannot just go to the County Jail roster and begin posting about the incarcerated here and posting mugshots.

This is highly critical regarding a successful prosecution of the accurate BG. Let's not blow it for Abby and Libby.

 

[DeDee]

We asked a few months ago but weren't allowed to. Maybe with these new developments we can. The charges seem to be from 2016 so they wouldn't pertain to Abby and Libby but it still might be a move in the right direction.

You know I love you, mtnlites, but this is one time I will strongly disagree.

I did not realize so much FB stuff has been referenced here until someone alerted me. The charges are unrelated to Abby and Libby.

We cannot go there at this time. It is not the right time. Please allow LE to work and the new prosecutor to do what he promised to do. I hold DA McLeland in high regard.

"I didn't feel like I was able to do that, defending people on the criminal defense side. <>," said McLeland.

"I actually started in my grandma's basement with a cellphone and a laptop and a printer," said McLeland.

He is well aware he could be taking on high-profile cases – <> He said his first step will be talking to investigators to make sure he's caught up on the cases.
http://www.wlfi.com/content/news/In...for-new-role-in-Carroll-County-463546963.html

 

[Tricia]

So, we can't talk about anyone LE DOES know, and we can't talk about anyone LE DOESN'T know. Well, that pretty much means no talking about anyone.


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It means you do not have the right on Websleuths to bring up innocent people and destroy their lives because you think they have some connection to this case.

How would you like to find your name and face all over an Internet discussion forum when you wake up one morning? That is how it feels for others if you bring up their name or picture.

There is plenty to talk about in this case without bringing up innocent people.

Common sense should tell you that the people already mentioned in this case have already been looked at by law enforcement.

If you find someone you feel confident looks like BG then, by all means, send that tip to the police.

We do have tight rules here at Websleuths but the members are amazing and can still do great sleuthing.

I hope this clears things up. If you have any other questions please send me a private message and do not discuss moderation on the board.

Thank you,
Tricia

 

[Boxer]

Hello Everyone,

I really want this killer caught. And I want to be able to check in here and see the details communicated in a responsible way. Please adhere to the rules so we can still keep this small support for the girls and their families going to help to keep the case alive.

I think these following things are important:

I feel LE slowed their investigation down unintetionally. Its sad, but understandable because LE had a small safe town mindset.

1.LE called off the search the night of their disappearance -- and as a result they possibly lost up to12 hours lead on the suspect due to that.
2. LE threatened publicly that if they came across any criminality in their searches the would prosecute those people i.e. no deals for info.
3. They formed a theory that there was a close family member of the murderer who could and would recognize the BG photo and voice recording and that this person was still alive, and would come forward.

LE has said now said they going to rework old tips -- and possilbly this will turn up something. I wish them luck. And who knows what they have in their pipeline maybe the answer is in there.

If I was LE - I would have and still would concentrate on every entrance/exit to the bridge area.

Walking out of area tyring to follow the decision path of a criminal getting away cleanly -- by selecting the right path at each decision point.

The guy on the bridge doesn't look like he would seek to hike a rough mile out the side of a rural road to 421 or IP, nor follow the old up pulled train tracks south to 421. But he could have for sure.
The land is flat and hiding a parked car is only going to be possible in some places-- were all the tire tracks on those places should have been cast for tire prints.

The guy on the bridge looked pretty clean - I don't see wrinkles in his pants from several hours of truck, car or motorcycle driving.

He looks like he just walked away for a break from a standing job.
His body looks like a man who works as machinist, shop supervisor, retail anything - like auto parts, or a mail room. His voice sounds like a supervisor with experience.
IMO I don't think he looks like a farmer or the farm industry, more mechanical, less like feed or irrigation, more like motorcycle sales or administrative in any industry. He does not look homeless to me.

Some say the BG is looking down as he is walking, IMO he is looking right at Libby through the trees where she took stood or crouched taking the picture of him from the south end of the bridge.
IMO His head is oriented down to keep track of the ties, but his eye is rotated up, looking at her directly and vicously at her from under his hat brim. He has a dark type beard, which is clean shaven - with a little beard around his mouth. A heavy look.

The jacket he is wearing is a very common type in the area, and is worn by the local amish as a standard type jacket when working outside. Blue windbreaker coach type thin windbreaker material.

Where would that man walk after killng? I feel the answer to his identity is there.No one knows why he was there, or when he got there -- but there a pretty good certainty he left at around 3pm. That a fact that I think deserves full resource to exploit.

Did he go back on the path back to the parking area?
IMHO To me, it seems unlikely that someone would suddenly commit a crime of opportunity if their car was sitting parked at the entrance to the trail, and even less so would they parke there if they were planning a crime of any type.
LE has identified no vehicle to be on the look out for, and there were people that would have seen the cars parked at that time.

That leaves S, N, and E. I hope every door on every way to exit knocked on and people asked what they could remember about anything that afternoon.

Where did he go? To Indianapolis, Chicago or Detroit? Given that choice and his look - I would guess Indanapolis.
Where did he go if to a smaller town? Lafayette, Kokomo, Monticello, Frankfort. IMHO IMHO Due to jacket and pants I would guess Monticello area, its the clean jeans --as in there is quite a bit of support service work that is clean on the Tippecanoe, such as outboard boat sales, and etc.

Did LE review every camera in every gas station, fast food or convenience story on every road radiating from Delphi ? - His stance in that footage might reveal a lead.

Has LE literally put all their faith in a person telling them who the murderer is, since the DNA isnt turning up a suspect?

But also IMHO the DNA doublespeak from LE means to me there is a problem there. DNA evidence can be lost, and misidentified or be of poor quality (the Superbike murders in Chesnee show the problem. In that case of multiple murders the DNA was mixed up at the CS by the collecting officer and this caused LE to pursue a family member of one other victims, thinking she was having an affair with her husbands coworker)

If I am wrong, and they have good sample of the murderers DNA then it seems he has no serious or recent criminal record - meaning gets away with things without being arrested.

Still where did he go? He did not fly, he walked or rode in some way. IMO he exited to the south, east or north.

IMO The ways he possibly left:

Hitchhiked a ride with a stranger
Used a bus or train https://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhrin.html
Used local bus of some type -
Was picked up by a friend family with a car/motorcycle or truck
Stole a car/motorcycle or truck and use it for the day
Borrowed a car/motorcycle or truck
Rented a car/motorcycle or truck
Used his own car/motorcycle or truck parked at a distance - in a hidden or remote place.

 

[Satchie]

I said it was my opinion - of course I don't know. I think he chased and shot them across the creek. :cow:

Hmm, personally can't see that myself. There was a house just down the driveway there, and if no one was home, outbuildings and farm fields and more houses to run for. Crossing a creek is risky, not known how deep it is, and nothing visible on the other side.

 

[margarita25]

Rsbm

He does not look homeless to me.

Rsbm

IMO The ways he possibly left:

Hitchhiked a ride with a stranger
Used a bus or train https://www.chicagorailfan.com/greyhrin.html
Used local bus of some type -
Was picked up by a friend family with a car/motorcycle or truck
Stole a car/motorcycle or truck and use it for the day
Borrowed a car/motorcycle or truck
Rented a car/motorcycle or truck
Used his own car/motorcycle or truck parked at a distance - in a hidden or remote place.

Good post, lots there...

I agree he doesn't look homeless (it took me a while to come to this conclusion).

Re: his exit? I suspect the last option, "Used his own car/motorcycle or truck parked at a distance - in a hidden or remote place." Moo.

Maybe shrubbery along the highway.

 

[Boxer]

Good post, lots there...

I agree he doesn't look homeless (it took me a while to come to this conclusion).

Re: his exit? I suspect the last option, "Used his own car/motorcycle or truck parked at a distance - in a hidden or remote place." Moo.

Maybe shrubbery along the highway.

I hope they got right onto casting at all the tracks at nearby turn out parking possiblities. Unfortunately it looked like LE congregated at the Cemetary - I wondered at the time, weren't they worried about driving over possible tire imprint evidence? Maybe they took the casts and photos and then drove the cemetary loop.

 

[TTF14]

So, we can't talk about anyone LE DOES know, and we can't talk about anyone LE DOESN'T know. Well, that pretty much means no talking about anyone.


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Just a suggestion: If someone has been arrested for a different crime that you find interesting to chit chat about and sleuth, maybe open a thread specific to that crime.

 

[Tricia]

I looked him up and scanned through his Facebook. LE would have DNA on him, right?

Have you asked about posting his picture here?

NO. This person has NOTHING to do with Abby and Libby's case.

Again, some random person.

I am stepping away from the computer.

 

[Boxer]

As looked at this case I found the number of criminals roaming around non-compiant and/or on probation in Indiana astounding.
Is Indiana adhering to its three strikes law?
I will research, but the taxpayers of IN might want to foot the bill to get some of those people back behind bars.