IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[kkdj]

I think LE have said the pics of BG were just before criminal activity began therefore I don't think he would have turned around and followed them back across the bridge. I think the criminal activity began right after those stills (pulling a weapon?) and was followed by the DTH command.

I'm wondering at what point in the audio dth was said. IOW where were they when he said dth? We don't know this do we? With that in mind and where they were found, how many dth's could there be?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Thank you for your great insight and I do agree with you. Imagine being in a large store w a family member. You’ve gone one way they the other. You visually scan the people there looking for your family member. What do you look for? Clothing, stance, body shape etc.

Also consider if BG lives with someone who does his laundry. They’ve possibly washed, dried, folded, put up those clothes many, many times. They’ve looked at the pouch he wears when he takes it off at home. They know where he wears it when he puts it back on.

LE has stated the still shot is so pixelated that the face could be anyone. As mentioned, public speculation on possible “matches” has run rampant. Also noting that the sketch, for many, resembles a CO person who they are not interested in at this time. The face recognition is not working apparently.

LE needs the person(s) who know BG to come forward. All JMOO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If they have DNA, it won't matter that the face is blurred. Why isn't the sketch being used? That was the reason for the sketch- to clarify that blurry face for everyone. What's up with the sketch face? Is it wrong?

 

[ezrah]

If they have DNA, it won't matter that the face is blurred. Why isn't the sketch being used? That was the reason for the sketch- to clarify that blurry face for everyone. What's up with the sketch face? Is it wrong?

Time will tell if it’s wrong. The sketch opened pandora’s box on side by side pics of random people and if, in fact, the CO person is of no interest to LE in relation to this case , they had the misfortune of the sketch resembling his likeness. The person who knows BG and his body type, clothing etc might think the sketch looks like him. So again LE needs the person(s) who recognize BG to come forward. They do not need broad speculation by random people to toss around random side by side pics is my guess. JMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shiressleuth]

I'm wondering at what point in the audio dth was said. IOW where were they when he said dth? We don't know this do we? With that in mind and where they were found, how many dth's could there be?

I don't think that is known. Only that criminal activity began straight after the stills. I don't therefore believe he herded them back across the bridge because he had no way of knowing who could have been approaching the north end of the bridge from the different trail points there. I also don't think there is a hill at the north end as such but just woods. I therefore think DTH was the hill at the south end leading down to the road/private drive and creek. :cow:

 

[heartgoesout]

Time will tell if it’s wrong. The sketch opened pandora’s box on side by side pics of random people and if, in fact, the CO person is of no interest to LE in relation to this case , they had the misfortune of the sketch resembling his likeness. The person who knows BG and his body type, clothing etc might think the sketch looks like him. So again LE needs the person(s) who recognize BG to come forward. They do not need broad speculation by random people to toss around random side by side pics is my guess. JMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They do need the public to compare the sketch. What they have asked is to call it in, but not post on the internet/social media.

 

[ocgrad]

I thought I heard a little bird chirping. I did. I did.

One thing I have learned from you, Kind Sir, in the past twenty months, or so, is that I need to focus on each word you write. Every word is important, well chosen and well placed. What does each sentence or phrase mean? Sort of reminds me of reading a transcript of a news conference. My head bows to you for the important work you perform for the victims of crime. We've had many brilliant people work on this murder investigation. Thank you for everything you have been willing to share with us including but not limited to the Scanner Thread.







If one or both of the girls is 5'5" then, 3.5' is rather, deep for them, especially when factoring in the frigid temperature of the water. It is deep for BG if he is 5'7". One of our specialists has BG at 5'5" so I lean toward the lower end of the scale offered by LE on BGs height.



I have tried for over a year to get at least the three of them across Deer Creek knowing what I know about the topography. It does not work. Also, let's remember that LE takes extra time to thank the media. The media has been an ally to the LE Team. Big time.





Good ole common sense. Yes, Sir.





There are videos of both searches mentioned. I happen to believe they were looking for the Primary CS. For me, the K9 is working when he crosses the street from RLs home and walks his trainer to the Mears barn. The trainer didn't ask the K9 to go across the street. I feel the K9 led his trainer based on odors. I trust well-trained dog's instincts. They love their jobs. They get lots of doggie treats for their work. Indy has a K9 that can sniff out hidden electronics. The trained K9 assisted LE in the Jerad Folge case by sniffing out electronics that humans can miss or would require hours of searching.

I also have always had a hard time that they would have gone through the creek. If they did I don't think it was part of BG's plan (if there was a plan). I read the transcript of the August Holman interview that Shire mentioned. His statement about them going through the creek was vague and odd. "... I mean, I don't think anybody, say on a walk, would walk that way." Well, that's pretty clear. It just sounded like he was trying not to say for the millionth time that he needed to protect the investigation. I did not get a definitive answer from that whether they believe they did or didn't go through the creek. I have always thought it made sense they were taken in a vehicle since they were right on a well hidden road. But LE said they have no evidence he left the crime scene in a vehicle. Not sure if that is their double speak and it doesn't seem reasonable to think he left the bridge in a vehicle but not the area behind RL's place where their bodies were found.
Then the interviewer said something I had not heard before saying, "...obviously I wasn't even there when you guys found all these horrible things at the crime scene." Was she referring to the 2 girls bodies? I don't want to make light of how horrible it would be even if there were no obvious signs of their COD, but I don't think I would have phrased it that way.
Also I noticed Holman stated he believes there is more than one person involved in their murders. He would not share his theories on whether he is local or transient. In fact he is careful to distinguish between what he believes vs the evidence.
Here is the link.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-65&p=13565009#post13565009
I would like to have an update of this interview 6 months later he must know more.
Regarding what they were looking for in the searches and evidence of a separate crime scene I have one thing that I keep turning over in my mind. It is from social media so you may discount it but it was a posting from RL's family who said thank you to the ISP for neatly restacking the hay in the barn (RL's not the Mear' s barn). I took it to be a sincere response to LE who they may have assumed would leave the place in a wreck but in fact left it neater than before. Not sure we can glean anything from that as they could have been looking for a scene and thought the hay was placed to obscure it, or they could have looked for an item they thought may have been tossed behind or between the bales. Or even the hay may have been discovered in disarray and they stacked it neatly.

 

[ocgrad]

I don't think that is known. Only that criminal activity began straight after the stills. I don't therefore believe he herded them back across the bridge because he had no way of knowing who could have been approaching the north end of the bridge from the different trail points there. I also don't think there is a hill at the north end as such but just woods. I therefore think DTH was the hill at the south end leading down to the road/private drive and creek. :cow:

I was just thinking about this. I was sort of considering the idea they were taken back across the bridge and then across the trail that runs from the bridge to the cemetery and links into one on RL's property where there is a steep ravine to travel down and back as you go across that way. But I gave up the notion as I thought about the risk of being caught by someone unknown coming down the trail at that time. Someone may not easily be seen if they are just standing in the woods, but 3 or more people walking through the woods and the creek would have been loud and the same thing would apply, anyone coming on the trail and bridge after them would have easily heard and seen them. We could see the bridge in the background of one of RL's interviews as he standing down there. Someone on the bridge could easily see them going cross country through the woods and creek, one wearing a tie-die t-shirt, one auburn hair in a large bun, if they were running even more noise.
If BG took them across the woods and the creek and back up the other bank to that spot and then killed both of them at 2:30 in the afternoon with people hanging out under the bridge and coming down the trail, he is amazingly fast like a trained killer with someone else watching out or he is a super bold wack job and got lucky with the perfect small window of opportunity he could not have planned. One a random act by a sick person who must have thought he would be caught any moment and the other is someone who does this for a living or to gain status in a group and had things well planned with other watchful eyes to assist. Or they were quickly forced into a vehicle and none of the noise and leaves and people on the trail would be a factor.

 

[Boxer]

That’s what I think too.

 

[mtnlites]

They do need the public to compare the sketch. What they have asked is to call it in, but not post on the internet/social media.

I honestly don't think they're going to get anything out of the general public with that sketch or that video still, and I don't think that's who they are appealing to. I think they're looking for information: did someone give him a ride that day, pick him up around the park, did a local business owner notice someone they didn't recognize acting oddly in the store, did anyone driving down the road notice a man walking on the shoulder with wet pants, did a man stop and ask someone directions about how to get to the bridge that morning, etc. They're not just wanting someone to call in and say, "I think he looks like this picture of this guy I found on the internet"; they're wanting someone with actual information: "I was in Delphi that day and I saw a man who resembles the picture. He was in the ____ bathroom, changing out of wet clothes." For a stranger to pick him out, they're going to need more than just a photo identify. I will eat my socks if a random person is able to identify BG off of that sketch or video still.

 

[DeDee]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-13s-satanic-history/?utm_term=.c9f6459b9c63

Hey All-

It seemed outlandish to me so I had early on discounted it ... but ...the more I hear of it ... do any of you think MS 13 could be involved here?

(Killing happened on the 13th, FBI and Comey were brought into it VERY early on ... and they are known to have sometimes targeted teen girl friends, in rural areas even ... could be MS 13 or a wanna be version??)

Seems crazy, I know, but ... please share your thoughts on this. It may be worth consideration. Please SEE LINK ABOVE for info.

No, your idea is not crazy, imho. I followed your request to read at the link provided even though I knew some about MS-13 already. They are a treacherous breed. They originated from California after illegally entering America when fleeing their Salvadorian country's civil war. President Clinton was the first to clamp down on their immigration. However, it may have made them more determined. They are dangerous, evil, and perform Satanic rituals. [For more details on that heinous activity, view the video found at the link.]

An FBI Agent lived near the area of the CS - not along the Creek but not considered residing far away, as in a 50 miles, either. Also, Vice President Pence, who hails from the Hoosier State, may have phoned Director Comey to seek the FBIs immediate attention regarding these tragic deaths.

From the link provided
"Instead of baggy clothes, its members wore black leather jackets and tight, frayed jeans"

There was mention of a guy seen at the MHB wearing all black. However, I think considering members of MS-13's ethnicity, they would shine like a beacon in the night in Delphi. See: City Data for ethnic population ratios. BG certainly isn't wearing tight jeans either.

This news article is dated Dec. 2017. It should be required reading for all American Adults. Educate yourself. :scared:

"No seminar could prepare American officials for someone like Jose Del Cid.

By the time he came to the United States illegally from El Salvador in 2012, the then-16-year-old was already a seasoned killer, he testified in federal court last year."

I've always held the belief that the killer(s) of Abby and Libby were local. Only recently am I finding myself drifting away from that theory a smidgen because I prefer keeping an open mind. The reason for the consideration of the killer(s) being from 2 - 4 hours away, in all four directions, is because at that distance, the residents would likely not consider it to be one of their own as we've learned many people who live within an hour's drive are unaware of this double homicide. Not everyone is as curious as we are.

BSBM

I don't believe BG is local. I believe BG lives south 2-4 hours away from Delphi. I believe BG and anyone else(if any) involved in this crime knows LE is watching them.
<>

 

[hvhope]

Hi all! Been reading about every post in Libby & Abby's thread here for almost a year. I almost registered 3 times but then the thread was shut down each time. Very glad it's open again.

My co-worker was in the search party that found the girls. She's a friend of Abby's mom. My friend was visibly shook up for weeks and weeks. We have since both moved on to different positions and I no longer am in touch with her. I only knew her for a short time but it was right before and after the girls were murdered. It's a lot more real when it happened to a friend of a friend.

It's very encouraging to see such a large community of people who care so much about total strangers. You guys are simply amazing - your stick-to-itness, your sleuthing abilities to find things, analyze and think outside of the box, your brainstorming. Wow! Amazing! Two enthusiastic thumbs up!

And thanks so much for keeping this investigation alive in the daily lives of everyone out there who cares.

 

[heartgoesout]

Thank you HV and welcome. What was the general consensus of the local community of who BG could be? ie; a local guy?

 

[Krwiley60]

This is what I think hence the wife or brother comment and appealing to family to "look at the body". The recent PC did appear to be targeted specifically rather than a blanket appeal. I hope the 300 or so tips received were relevant and specific.

Re. Crossing the creek mentioned by OP - the Holman August interview in the media thread is useful in this regard. (10.49 in the video, part 2 in Spellbound's transcript.)

I don&#8217;t think an alibi would stop LE or FBI from getting their guy if the had proof. If this is the &#8220;innocent&#8221; suspects only evidence, it needs to be heard with caution. It is only an excuse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[liltexans]

MOD NOTE

Do not sleuth random sex offenders without first obtaining permission from Tricia.

If you feel strongly that someone could be BG, please PM Tricia and explain your reasoning and she will make the call as to whether it can be discussed in the thread.

This post lands at random.

 

[Shiressleuth]

This is what I think hence the wife or brother comment and appealing to family to "look at the body". The recent PC did appear to be targeted specifically rather than a blanket appeal. I hope the 300 or so tips received were relevant and specific.

Re. Crossing the creek mentioned by OP - the Holman August interview in the media thread is useful in this regard. (10.49 in the video, part 2 in Spellbound's transcript. )[/

I don’t think an alibi would stop LE or FBI from getting their guy if the had proof. If this is the “innocent” suspects only evidence, it needs to be heard with caution. It is only an excuse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jax49]

Also I noticed Holman stated he believes there is more than one person involved in their murders. He would not share his theories on whether he is local or transient. In fact he is careful to distinguish between what he believes vs the evidence.
Here is the link.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...Delphi-13-Feb-2017-65&p=13565009#post13565009

Respectfully snipped for focus & bbm.

Apologies for not having time to listen to the entire interview again. Can you link to the point where he says that? TIA

I did find this early in the interview, which seems to indicate one murderer, imho.

We're still motivated, we're still optimistic that we are gonna catch this person that's responsible for this, and we're not letting up or giving in or anything like that.

 

[hvhope]

What was the general consensus of the local community of who BG could be? ie; a local guy?

I didn't really talk about it with that many people, except my friend a few times at work. Sorry I can't give any insight there.

 

[ocgrad]

Respectfully snipped for focus & bbm.

Apologies for not having time to listen to the entire interview again. Can you link to the point where he says that? TIA

I did find this early in the interview, which seems to indicate one murderer, imho.

Here is his quote.
"Yeah, it's hard to say without jeopardizing the integrity of rthe invesrtigation how much evidence we had, because there's three people, in my opinion maybe more, but at least three people that know what happened, knew what happened that day, and two of them are dead."
Like I said, it's his belief, he didn't say he had evidence, but he wouldn't say that anyway even if factual.

 

[heartgoesout]

I honestly don't think they're going to get anything out of the general public with that sketch or that video still, and I don't think that's who they are appealing to. I think they're looking for information: did someone give him a ride that day, pick him up around the park, did a local business owner notice someone they didn't recognize acting oddly in the store, did anyone driving down the road notice a man walking on the shoulder with wet pants, did a man stop and ask someone directions about how to get to the bridge that morning, etc. They're not just wanting someone to call in and say, "I think he looks like this picture of this guy I found on the internet"; they're wanting someone with actual information: "I was in Delphi that day and I saw a man who resembles the picture. He was in the ____ bathroom, changing out of wet clothes." For a stranger to pick him out, they're going to need more than just a photo identify. I will eat my socks if a random person is able to identify BG off of that sketch or video still.

Agreed. Unfortunately, I don't think that person is going to come forward at this point.

With that said, if they know who BG is and if they are missing just that one tip to arrest and prosecute BG, they need to to decide to either move forward with just circumstantial evidence or whatever it is they have.

If they have no idea who BG is than a national campaign should start again. Like someone said they other day, their mom thought they caught the guy. Very few people follow like we do.

I can't imagine how frustrating this is for LE. God bless them.

 

[Jax49]

Here is his quote.
"Yeah, it's hard to say without jeopardizing the integrity of rthe invesrtigation how much evidence we had, because there's three people, in my opinion maybe more, but at least three people that know what happened, knew what happened that day, and two of them are dead."
Like I said, it's his belief, he didn't say he had evidence, but he wouldn't say that anyway even if factual.

BBM

Thanks for the quote. I read that as there (in his opinion) could be other people with knowledge, besides the murderer and the victims. Doesn't rule out two murderers but doesn't suggest it either.

moo

ETA other quote from same interview where he seems to indicate one murderer.

"We're still motivated, we're still optimistic that we are gonna catch this person that's responsible for this, and we're not letting up or giving in or anything like that."