IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #83

[Falling Down]

I think it very probable he had scouted out the area and had decided to wait for a suitable victim(s) who came down to the south end of the bridge, and to lead them to the site where he killed them..

That's what animal predators do, and hunters and fishermen. They'll wait for hours for a deer to pass, or to catch a fish. I believe BG was using similar predatory, hunting instincts and techniques. It's quite shocking to imagine that someone could treat young teenagers the same way they treat a big fish or a lion, but I believe it definitely happens.

I drew this simple map using Google Satellite shortly after the murders. It shows roughly what I initially believed was the route taken by BG.

We know very little in details about a witness's sighting of BG, near the NW end of the bridge. She was walking a dog, and saw BG. I'd imagine people don't walk dogs across old RR bridges, probably walks the trail and turns around at the bridge. So let's say BG is loitering by the bridge. After that interaction, where did he go?

A trail leads roughly from the NW approach to the bridge, and east on to private property (Mears). It connects to other trails on their and RL's properties. My theory was he got to the bridge area, and used the trails or maybe came down from the cemetery and stashed something at the CS. During one interview with RL, the news cameraman is near the creek's edge, and he pans the bridge in the distance. This time of year, the NW end of rhe bridge can be clearly seen, and other secrions can be seen through the tree tops.

I figured he had a scope or binoculars, and followed the girls' trek across the bridge. Once they got most of the way across, he started walking to the NW end of the bridge.

My image here is roughly a triangle. Hunters (and I'm one) try to force or corral their prey to where they are vulnerable. What BG did was force his prey into a spot the girls pretty much could not have gotten out of. Even if they got to the opposite creek bank before BG, trying to get away, they could have gotten disoriented once there. That's another hunting tactic.

Now back to the witness with the dog. I wonder if BG had just stashed something at the CS when she saw him. People were at the bridge earlier than her, and said they didn't see anything. Or was he there earlier, watching? Waiting?

MOO

 

[newredtabby]

I drew this simple map using Google Satellite shortly after the murders. It shows roughly what I initially believed was the route taken by BG.

We know very little in details about a witness's sighting of BG, near the NW end of the bridge. She was walking a dog, and saw BG. I'd imagine people don't walk dogs across old RR bridges, probably walks the trail and turns around at the bridge. So let's say BG is loitering by the bridge. After that interaction, where did he go?

A trail leads roughly from the NW approach to the bridge, and east on to private property (Mears). It connects to other trails on their and RL's properties. My theory was he got to the bridge area, and used the trails or maybe came down from the cemetery and stashed something at the CS. During one interview with RL, the news cameraman is near the creek's edge, and he pans the bridge in the distance. This time of year, the NW end of rhe bridge can be clearly seen, and other secrions can be seen through the tree tops.

I figured he had a scope or binoculars, and followed the girls' trek across the bridge. Once they got most of the way across, he started walking to the NW end of the bridge.

My image here is roughly a triangle. Hunters (and I'm one) try to force or corral their prey to where they are vulnerable. What BG did was force his prey into a spot the girls pretty much could not have gotten out of. Even if they got to the opposite creek bank before BG, trying to get away, they could have gotten disoriented once there. That's another hunting tactic.

Now back to the witness with the dog. I wonder if BG had just stashed something at the CS when she saw him. People were at the bridge earlier than her, and said they didn't see anything. Or was he there earlier, watching? Waiting?

MOO

Where are you getting the dog walking witness info from? This has not been reported in MSM has it?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Shiressleuth]

Where are you getting the dog walking witness info from? This has not been reported in MSM has it?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's what I was going to ask. I know this has also been mentioned before but if a link cannot be provided then it is in the realm of rumour or hearsay. It may well be true but if we can't link it we cannot talk about it as fact.
I see FD has stated it all as opinion and theory so if that is the case, it is a possible theory. He may have been waiting for a victim also when he saw her so she was lucky IMO.

@FD the google map attachment didn't load for me so I wonder if you could post it as a link?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I drew this simple map using Google Satellite shortly after the murders. It shows roughly what I initially believed was the route taken by BG.

We know very little in details about a witness's sighting of BG, near the NW end of the bridge. She was walking a dog, and saw BG. I'd imagine people don't walk dogs across old RR bridges, probably walks the trail and turns around at the bridge. So let's say BG is loitering by the bridge. After that interaction, where did he go?

A trail leads roughly from the NW approach to the bridge, and east on to private property (Mears). It connects to other trails on their and RL's properties. My theory was he got to the bridge area, and used the trails or maybe came down from the cemetery and stashed something at the CS. During one interview with RL, the news cameraman is near the creek's edge, and he pans the bridge in the distance. This time of year, the NW end of rhe bridge can be clearly seen, and other secrions can be seen through the tree tops.

I figured he had a scope or binoculars, and followed the girls' trek across the bridge. Once they got most of the way across, he started walking to the NW end of the bridge.

My image here is roughly a triangle. Hunters (and I'm one) try to force or corral their prey to where they are vulnerable. What BG did was force his prey into a spot the girls pretty much could not have gotten out of. Even if they got to the opposite creek bank before BG, trying to get away, they could have gotten disoriented once there. That's another hunting tactic.

Now back to the witness with the dog. I wonder if BG had just stashed something at the CS when she saw him. People were at the bridge earlier than her, and said they didn't see anything. Or was he there earlier, watching? Waiting?

MOO

Would there be a trail where someone is walking the dog near to the CS on RL property?

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://fox59.com/2017/07/17/police-...hi-teens-liberty-german-and-abigail-williams/

This is a link that talks about the woman witness but no dog is mentioned so I guess we cannot discuss the dog unless it appears in MSM. :laughing:

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Personally, I don’t think BG was hiding from the girls, I think they passed him and he followed at a distance. I possibly think at the beginning of the bridge (or near) the girls would have encountered him. IMPO there could have been an exchange of words a question from him & (Teenage Style) Get Lost Creep or something similar.

I simply think there is a possibility the girls were the straw that broke the camel’s back on a very bad dark day for all concerned.

Yes, I do think BG was organised but probably not for the murders of two teens, and probably concentrating on his own death, when interrupted flipped and killed two innocent girls for disturbing his privacy and own plans.

Can you imagine planning to end your own life and being interrupted on countless occasions all because you didn’t know the kids were off school or it was a snow day?

It wouldn’t surprise me if BG was already dead and ended his own life shortly after committing the double homicide.

I simply think the Girls may have interrupted him and his thoughts, were a bit short with their words and he got mad enough to kill because they messed his own plan up.

Therefore I think he is local, the area means something to him that’s why he was there and he knows his way around. I think there is a possibility he killed out of anger with others and the girls were on the receiving end of his anger.

Just another thought and possibility.

KR
Reacher

 

[Shiressleuth]

Personally, I don’t think BG was hiding from the girls, I think they passed him and he followed at a distance. I possibly think at the beginning of the bridge (or near) the girls would have encountered him. IMPO there could have been an exchange of words a question from him & (Teenage Style) Get Lost Creep or something similar.

I simply think there is a possibility the girls were the straw that broke the camel’s back on a very bad dark day for all concerned.

Yes, I do think BG was organised but probably not for the murders of two teens, and probably concentrating on his own death, when interrupted flipped and killed two innocent girls for disturbing his privacy and own plans.

Can you imagine planning to end your own life and being interrupted on countless occasions all because you didn’t know the kids were off school or it was a snow day?

It wouldn’t surprise me if BG was already dead and ended his own life shortly after committing the double homicide.

I simply think the Girls may have interrupted him and his thoughts, were a bit short with their words and he got mad enough to kill because they messed his own plan up.

Therefore I think he is local, the area means something to him that’s why he was there and he knows his way around. I think there is a possibility he killed out of anger with others and the girls were on the receiving end of his anger.

Just another thought and possibility.

KR
Reacher

So you think they were randomly followed and killed just for being there? And he has gone off somewhere and killed himself. I can't see it tbh.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Would there be a trail where someone is walking the dog near to the CS on RL property?

Randy Gravitz has a good video showing this route- if you can put up with his breathing and coughing soundtrack.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

So you think they were randomly followed and killed just for being there? And he has gone off somewhere and killed himself. I can't see it tbh.

That's not what I said, but hey ho

But yes I do think there is a possibility they were randomly killed because of a set of circumstances in the perpetrator's own life and mind.

Blimey, I am only exploring a different alternative avenue.

Chill Shiresleuth !
KR
Reacher

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Randy Gravitz has a good video showing this route- if you can put up with his breathing and coughing soundtrack.

No, I couldn't put up, rather not .... but I looked at the video. SE of bridge to cemetery? I don't remember well the details of the tour like sight to the crime scene or not.

 

[Try2solve]

Holman explained that there was conversation between the girls of a stranger following them so I don't believe he came from the south end. I believe Libby was videoing Abby and caught him in the video intentionally and may even have been hurrying Abby off the bridge at the time. I think he then got out a gun and directed them DTH.
:cow:

Great point about Libby hurrying Abby! I can see Abby not being able to walk as quickly as Libby on the bridge. That could explain how BG was able to catch up to them.

 

[Cryptic]

I don't think lack of evidence is the problem. They have dna, they have his voice, they have images and video and no doubt other evidence too. I think the problem is he has never been arrested for a crime before or if he has dna wasn't taken. The problem is law enforcement are trying to find one adult male in a country that has a male population of approximately 162 million males.

The number of males is large, but not that large. BG is white and apparently middle aged. He is also dressed in mid western farm / work clothes. Both his ethnicity and dress are very common in the area.

Then assume that he was formerly local or is currently local (he does not look "drifterish" to me and his possible routes show familiarity with the area). The good news is that this total is relatively small. The bad news is that this still leaves hundreds to thousands of males depending on how one defines "local" or "former local".

 

[Try2solve]

Great point about Libby hurrying Abby! I can see Abby not being able to walk as quickly as Libby on the bridge. That could explain how BG was able to catch up to them.

Thanks to Shiressleuth, I now believe that's what the family is talking about regarding the girls sticking together. I can almost hear the audio of Libby coaxing Abby to hurry and Abby saying she was walking as fast as she could.
Libby wouldn't leave Abby behind.

 

[Shiressleuth]

No, I couldn't put up, rather not .... but I looked at the video. SE of bridge to cemetery? I don't remember well the details of the tour like sight to the crime scene or not.

No, NW end of bridge to cemetery along the north bank and he videos the deer stand also and the unofficial trails through the woods, he walks all the way to the rear of the cemetery and the CS. Maybe GH has one also but I haven't seen it. If any poster knows of one, then his (GH) channel link is in the media thread.

 

[Shiressleuth]

That's not what I said, but hey ho

But yes I do think there is a possibility they were randomly killed because of a set of circumstances in the perpetrator's own life and mind.

Blimey, I am only exploring a different alternative avenue.

Chill Shiresleuth !
KR
Reacher

No problem. That was just my rough impression of what you said. :smile: I'm cool.

 

[Cryptic]

Quite literally, LE has NEVER said that the creek was crossed. Not once.

I am not a fan of the creek crossing possibility. If any thing, crossing the creek would even more strongly imply local knowledge of the depth and ease of crossing.

That aside, though it is clearly possible that a non local made an accurate judgement of crossing ease at a glance, people tend to undertake actions that they feel comfortable with unless there are no other options. This is especially so in crimes due to the stress factor.

At the end of the day, most people would not be comfortable in creeks / water and would thus shy away from them unless they needed to. Furhtermore, people familiar with creeks would know that they can go from knee deep to chest deep in a single step, have very slippery bottoms and that it does not take much of a current to sweep one down stream for several dozen feet.

I don't claim that one would need the skills of say a Navy Seal or a CA Ocean life guard to control two people while crossing that creek. Rather, I think that most people would by instinct, not attempt it impulsively under stress. Though BG may have been looking for a more secluded area, he does not appear to have needed to cross the creek to commit the crime.

 

[Jax49]

I am not a fan of the creek crossing possibility. If any thing, crossing the creek would even more strongly imply local knowledge of the depth and ease of crossing.

That aside, though it is clearly possible that a non local made an accurate judgement of crossing ease at a glance, people tend to undertake actions that they feel comfortable with unless there are no other options. This is especially so in crimes due to the stress factor.

At the end of the day, most people would not be comfortable in creeks / water and would thus shy away from them unless they needed to. Furhtermore, people familiar with creeks would know that they can go from knee deep to chest deep in a single step, have very slippery bottoms and that it does not take much of a current to sweep one down stream for several dozen feet.

I don't claim that one would need the skills of say a Navy Seal or a CA Ocean life guard to control two people while crossing that creek. Rather, I think that most people would by instinct, not attempt it impulsively under stress. Though BG may have been looking for a more secluded area, he does not appear to have needed to cross the creek to commit the crime.

I remember one video where someone attempted to cross the creek and landed on his butt more than once, so I agree with your points about the difficulty.

But, Holeman did indicate they crossed the creek.

moo

 

[ReadySet]

He didn't use the word "stranger". Not just you, but this is one of those inaccuracies that can't seem to be put to rest.

Holman explained that there was conversation between the girls of a stranger following them so I don't believe he came from the south end. I believe Libby was videoing Abby and caught him in the video intentionally and may even have been hurrying Abby off the bridge at the time. I think he then got out a gun and directed them DTH.
:cow:

 

[heartgoesout]

I am wondering the same thing. Where is the information that they talked about a weird or creepy guy? I thought this was debunked? I'm getting confused, d'oh!

 

[Shiressleuth]

He didn't use the word "stranger". Not just you, but this is one of those inaccuracies that can't seem to be put to rest.

Ok a strange man then?