IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #9

[Daae]

He is walking the same direction as Abbey (north to south) is in the Snapchat photo Libby posted. I can see a dark spot on the Abbey picture that might be him entering the bridge. Libby posted a second photo of the empty bridge where the shadows are on the other side.

 

[LaborDayRN]

The murders of Abby and Libby has effected me so deeply. I have was discussing this with my sister but when my brother in law joined the conversation, he had not had heard anything about the murders. (He is an educated man works a lot and dealing with his wife, my sister, battling ovarian cancer) Evidently, he doesn't watch news. He asked me why this has effected me so. I told him they were 13 and 14 years old, they went to take a walk on a trail that was familiar to the girls. I have walked in the woods just about all my life. Walking in the woods is my happy place. The place I go to get away from life and reconnect to my inner self and God for that matter. It just really hurts me that Abby and Libby were out enjoying nature and this awful crime was committed. It upsets me that a man took control of their being and obviously lead them to their deaths. I am so dismayed that the general public may not be aware of this terrible crime. I am so glad to read on WS that others are effected. Yet is true were are encouraged to take a break because I too have been so upset that I have missed many hours of sleep. Prayers, loving thoughts of support for the girls' families and the LE involved. Yes that press conference yesterday made me weep. Anyway, thanks you all for being here.

:grouphug: It's horrible what happened to these lovely young girls. Heartbreaking. I'm very sorry about your sister.

 

[looksbetterinred]

I was looking at roads in the area. The one I thought was kinda close want, sorry.



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[Jessica121810]

BBM

100% agree about the perp, but there definitely were no "first choices" in play for the girls once they went down whichever hill they went down.

In agreement with you.


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[CarmelEyesD]

I, myself, don't feel he is in his 40's or 50's...I feel he is younger...early to mid thirties, if not even late 20's...someone the girls wouldn't have run from initially, maybe even trusted.. I think once Libby knew they were in trouble she got video of him...but they may have been politely stranger chatting prior to that..

 

[Sillybilly]

Please use the "Reply With Quote" feature (bottom right corner of each post) so we all know who/what you are responding to. Otherwise your reply may be taken out of context or just disregarded if others don't know what you are referring to.

:tyou:

 

[Cilene]

Just my opinion, but I also agree with you. He had to have known the area, so he either is local, was local, or is an employee at either IPC or Tyson in Logansport and heard coworkers talk of the area. (I add this because both plants bus employees in as far away as Allen & Grant Counties).

I think he came past them on the bridge not long after the Snapchat photo was taken. His demeanor led Libby to flip on her video on the phone rather than run. Maybe that was the trigger. I don't know - but then I agree, he turned around. At that point, maybe it wasn't him forcing them - that was when fear kicked in and if he was standing between them and the south exit, their only option was to run to the north, 13yo me at that point would've been thinking, "I can outrun the old guy on a steep slope. I'm nimble." and that could explain how they ended up on the east side.

Common Indiana sense also says "it may be warm out, but that water is going to be less than 50 degrees, because even in the summer it doesn't get very warm." So I can't see either the girls or the perp choosing crossing the water as a first choice.

My heart just breaks. Many times my best friend and I went hiking on our own at that age. Which also just triggered a thought... she was my pastor's daughter. The creek we would follow had a path all the way down to the creek from the cemetery. Back in the day they used it for baptisms. You just may be on to something with the vehicle there as well. Enough that I got cold chills thinking about it. Off to check the topography of it for comparison.


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I thought from the beginning that the bad guy (sorry not all up on the terms) parked at the cemetery. Moo.. he is not a homeless drifter. He knows the area. All about the loose fitting long blue jeans. Horse riders wear their jeans long so they don't ride up their boots and make them look dorky. Horse people can suffer injuries that make their gait not so liquid. Horse trainers could perhaps use the same psychological persona used in working with horses to control teenage girls. Calm and authoritative. I think this awful person has a military background. I hold in high regard our military women and men. PTSD is real and our soldiers snap. I hope this is not the case because I admire all our vets. Just my information and a totally upset grandma.

 

[mpnola]

This video shows the camera crew at the end of the bridge. She is at the end near the posts (sorry to bring up the posts- nope, not a man back there). Anyway, for all of you people who are looking for directional information, this might help. I am horrible with anything directional. I will leave it to you to see if it is info that can be used in the bridge/ route/ crime site map.

https://www.facebook.com/crimewatchdaily/videos/1492352647456189/

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
http://usnews.naijamotherland.com/2017/02/24/former-police-chief-weighs-in-on-carroll-county-teens-murder-investigation/

Former police chief weighs in on Carroll County teens murder investigation

“It’s absolutely incredible and speaks to the bravery of this young lady that she got video and sound under those kind of circumstances, how scared she must have been,” he said.

Weinblatt said this aspect of the case is extremely rare. It’s something investigators don’t see too often.

“I’ve had cases where people will write something in the dirt or not to be morbid but use their own blood to leave a clue,” he said.
Weinblatt said there’s a reason why investigators have not released more information.
“There could be more identifier information, there could be information as far as where the suspect moved, how a suspect moved, what direction and that kind of thing would only be known by the true perpetrator,” he said.

 

[Soulmagent]

I dated him in high school and in college.

That cheater!

 

[looksbetterinred]

The trail is listed on the Delphi trail map. It is listed as the Manon High Bridge Trail.
I looked on all of my trail apps for single track and foot only, this trail was not listed on any of those.

http://www.cityofdelphi.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=5&Itemid=135

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[Elle*Bee]

Did Cliff get fired?

Yes. He was apparently replaced by Spark, who must've received a pink slip.

 

[Tessiee]

Okay, to murder someone is never logic to me, but I really can´t understand this: If the suspect was out there to kill (and maybe rape, which we do not know), why would he decide to murder two girls? It seems to me this was very risky for him, because even when they were not as strong as him and he had a weapon, there was a possibility at least one of them could run away and call for help. So, if we try to think like someone who is out there to murder: Why did the suspect not attack a woman who was out there alone? Or alone at another place?
I really do think he knew them, not neccesarily from beeing friends with them or having to do with them on a regular basis, but at least from distance.
Because a total stranger would not see two girls and think "Cool, I am going to kill them" - then if he would, he would have killed lots of times before, wouldn´t he?

 

[Falling Down]

The murders of Abby and Libby has effected me so deeply. I have was discussing this with my sister but when my brother in law joined the conversation, he had not had heard anything about the murders. (He is an educated man works a lot and dealing with his wife, my sister, battling ovarian cancer) Evidently, he doesn't watch news. He asked me why this has effected me so. I told him they were 13 and 14 years old, they went to take a walk on a trail that was familiar to the girls. I have walked in the woods just about all my life. Walking in the woods is my happy place. The place I go to get away from life and reconnect to my inner self and God for that matter. It just really hurts me that Abby and Libby were out enjoying nature and this awful crime was committed. It upsets me that a man took control of their being and obviously lead them to their deaths. I am so dismayed that the general public may not be aware of this terrible crime. I am so glad to read on WS that others are effected. Yet is true were are encouraged to take a break because I too have been so upset that I have missed many hours of sleep. Prayers, loving thoughts of support for the girls' families and the LE involved. Yes that press conference yesterday made me weep. Anyway, thanks you all for being here.

^^^^THIS

Nature is my happy place, has been since grade school. Friends of mine roughly same age as myself (I'm 42) were in HS when they came across one of Arthur Shawcross's victims. On an abandoned railroad property turned park, next to a river.

I joined WS becauee of my inteest in the Drexel case in South Carolina. She most likely ended up as a corpse eaten by gators or wild boar or...?

These people are monsters, and this one made Libby and Abhy's nature spot into a killing field. I want this SOB taken alive and brought to justice

 

[Knox]

Indiana State Police say while they haven't requested search assistance from surrounding states they are asking for anyone to be on the lookout.

Authorities are also warning anyone with children to be extra cautious. Keep an eye on your kids and know their whereabouts at all times.

So far, approximately 3,900 tips have come in. Indiana State Police say they’ve cleared only five of them.

http://fox2now.com/2017/02/23/death-of-indiana-teens-reaches-national-impact/

 

[Bob Saccamano]

Would the trail map and trail descriptions be useful at all? There's a PDF on the City of Delphi website. It's the kind visitors pick up, and not like a real map, but it has descriptions of the trails and even shows 2 proposed trails. I'm not sure how up to date the PDF is.

http://www.cityofdelphi.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=273&Itemid=154

Thank you!

Youve probably seen this video showing the location of where they were found.

It may not help much because there is no real context of where exactly it is other than the water is seen.

Starts at 1:32


http://wlfi.com/2017/02/16/delphi-property-owner-speaks-to-news-18-after-bodies-found-in-backyard/

Thanks, Hatfield. I'll take a look again.

Just my opinion, but I also agree with you. He had to have known the area, so he either is local, was local, or is an employee at either IPC or Tyson in Logansport and heard coworkers talk of the area. (I add this because both plants bus employees in as far away as Allen & Grant Counties).

I think he came past them on the bridge not long after the Snapchat photo was taken. His demeanor led Libby to flip on her video on the phone rather than run. Maybe that was the trigger. I don't know - but then I agree, he turned around. At that point, maybe it wasn't him forcing them - that was when fear kicked in and if he was standing between them and the south exit, their only option was to run to the north, 13yo me at that point would've been thinking, "I can outrun the old guy on a steep slope. I'm nimble." and that could explain how they ended up on the east side.

Common Indiana sense also says "it may be warm out, but that water is going to be less than 50 degrees, because even in the summer it doesn't get very warm." So I can't see either the girls or the perp choosing crossing the water as a first choice.

My heart just breaks. Many times my best friend and I went hiking on our own at that age. Which also just triggered a thought... she was my pastor's daughter. The creek we would follow had a path all the way down to the creek from the cemetery. Back in the day they used it for baptisms. You just may be on to something with the vehicle there as well. Enough that I got cold chills thinking about it. Off to check the topography of it for comparison.


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BBM
That raised the hair on my neck.

In addition to my feeling that he knows the area, I feel like he came prepared to commit the crime. I don't think they ever had the chance to run. I don't think he would have risked them trying to run and screaming with other people in the area. I'm inclined to believe that he had total control of them from the very moment he engaged them. I don't feel like there was a chase of any kind and a lot of my reasoning is that I don't know if he tries to do what he did if he wasn't sure that he would have their compliance. There seems to be so much control involved in a scenario and environment that doesn't offer much control.

I'm not ruling it out, but I'll be shocked if they don't tie him to other crimes when they catch him.

 

[DeDee]

Is it possible to get a vehicle near where they were found?

No. Not very easily at all. And carrying two bodies? I heard you would need to get through it on horseback. The young girls were not killed where they were found as that particular area is described as "pristine" by the property owner.

Last photo posted by Libby was at 2ish. They needed to be back where their ride would meet them by 4. 4:30? Not sure on that. Girls reported missing at 5:30. That gives the killer, what?, from 2 to 5:30 with the girls.

 

[Safeguard]

This video shows the camera crew at the end of the bridge. She is at the end near the posts (sorry to bring up the posts- nope, not a man back there). Anyway, for all of you people who are looking for directional information, this might help. I am horrible with anything directional. I will leave it to you to see if it is info that can be used in the bridge/ route/ crime site map.

https://www.facebook.com/crimewatchdaily/videos/1492352647456189/

BBM
:websleuther: :silly: :tyou:

 

[Falling Down]

<modsnip>

I just think he wanted them off, and away from, the bridge after they had seen him coming towards them. Just MOO.

The 911 part didn't happen. She never called 911 that we know of, which is another reason why I think it started at the Southeast end of the bridge. Guy's a control freak, he has to get control of the situation ASAP, and he has little time to do it.

I also think there's a possibility his footwear comes up part of his legs, hidden by his jeans. That way he could cross the creek in a little more comfort than his victims.

He's a cold-blooded, sick person, who is about to commit a heinous crime. He cares not about the girls' comfort, or ease of travel across the two creeks. Just that they get to his killing field.

 

[samara.matisse]

No. Not very easily at all. And carrying two bodies? I heard you would need to get through it on horseback. The young girls were not killed where they were found as that particular area is described as "pristine" by the property owner.

Last photo posted by Libby was at 2ish. They needed to be back where their ride would meet them by 4. 4:30? Not sure on that. Girls reported missing at 5:30. That gives the killer, what?, from 2 to 5:30 with the girls.

They were supposed to be picked up around 3 or 3:30. We also don't apparently know if the snapchat photo was taken and posted immediately, or taken earlier and posted at that time. Apparently Snapchat lets you take and save photos to upload at an earlier time. This was mentioned in some of the earliest threads.