IN - Amanda Blackburn, 28, pregnant, murdered, Indianapolis, 10 Nov 2015 - #3

[Ontario Mom]

I'm trying so hard to follow this but certain things just don't add up for me. Maybe I've missed some things though.

First of all, the time of the burglary(s) seems quite unusual for me. It appears to be a working class neighborhood where most folks would be up and getting ready for work/school at that time. Not that working class neighborhoods aren't targeted but the burglars generally wait until they know (or presume) they're not going to be caught by homeowners or seen by neighbors. 5:30am would be prime time to NOT burglarize a house unless you knew for sure the owners weren't there anyway.

Second, the time-gap between when the SUV was seen leaving and the time-frame the neighbors heard gunshots. 6am to 6:45am - and the fact that most seem to assume there's a connection between the suspect who killed AB and the SUV. The SUV leaves the area and 45 minutes later there are gunshots? That makes me suspect the driver and whatever passengers, if any, were possibly not even connected to the person pulling that trigger. I mean, if you've just burglarized a house at 5:30am & loaded your stolen vehicle with the goods, and are seen leaving at 6am, why would anyone even think that SUV would still be around at 6:45? The only thing that makes any sense here is, the piece of garbage that killed Amanda saw Davey leaving and wrongly assumed the house would be empty and ripe for another burglary. But, that would have to mean either Davey left earlier than the SUV did and that 6:11 time is wrong (where does that even come from? Clearly I missed where that was documented), or the losers in the SUV just left one guy behind for some strange reason in a neighborhood he clearly didn't belong in, and would have been seen as suspect walking away from.

Which brings me to my next utterly-confused point: MSM keeps saying it was a burglary gone wrong (or other words to that affect). But the man they released the still image of is seen carrying exactly nothing. People who break into homes steal things they can sell, i.e., electronics (mostly) and you can't stuff those into your baggy pants no matter how swag you think you are. I suppose it's entirely possible his plan was changed when he encountered Amanda but why would he even have bothered since the SUV left the area a good 45 minutes before the neighbors heard the gunshots? Was he just going to walk out the neighborhood toting a flat screen like it was commonplace?

Lastly, IF the person who has been named in MSM as being arrested for PV is the same person they believe to have used AB's debit card, his previous criminal history shows no connection whatsoever to gun violence or sexual crimes. He's a criminal for sure, but he operates in a different realm: stolen goods, burglary & drugs. I know sometimes criminals of one caliber advance to another, and sometimes there's a "first" but given his age and priors it's a bit of a stretch for me to think that's the guy they're looking for.

Just some thoughts - and I know I've probably missed a LOT of important details that have already been shared. This thread here has been moving like a wildfire. My hat is off to the mods. Y'all rock at keeping things as sane as possible in cases like this.

 

[MaxManning]

I can't believe its already Friday and there's no arrest.

Either LE is confident they know who it is and they are quietly releasing info to keep the perp feeling comfortable while case building - or they really are still clueless?? Because if they had DNA matches on the guy in custody I can't imagine why they aren't filing charges? Aren't DNA matches enough to get a warrant issued?

I have no idea how quickly a dna test takes. But I would not be surprised if it takes over a week.

 

[MJPeony]

I can't stop thinking about the little boy, Weston. Just awful that he was there, ultimately unprotected in the end, and escaping harm or even death by the grace of God.

What are the theories on what happened there with him? Is the assumption that the perp knew there was a baby in the home? Have we heard anything about where Weston was-- I've heard it said he was "upstairs" but has anything like that been verified?

15 month olds are often up by 6:45, but of course that depends. He could have been upstairs his crib or downstairs.

But I keep wondering whether it was known Weston was there. And if so, I'm assuming the perp just felt no need to kill the child. If he was so abhorrent as to have done what he did to Amanda, I'm surprised he stopped at that and didn't harm the boy. So glad he is safe though. And I can't even imagine how relieved the family must be.

 

[MJPeony]

After a series of gunshots, I know I'd be outside my door listening closely as to where that sound came from. If a baby happened to be crying at that time, I most definitely would take note of it.

Myself, I'd be taking a walk to try and get and idea of where the gunshots came from.

Would be interesting to know the proximity of those who reported the gunfire.

For all I know, maybe everyone in the surrounding houses were gone.

It's not clear if neighbors even called police regarding gunshots or if that came up when interviewing neighbors.

BBM

AACK! :scared: Not me, not me! You are a brave one MaxManning! I'm afraid I'd only be calling 911 while hiding behind my sofa.

 

[MaxManning]

I'm trying so hard to follow this but certain things just don't add up for me. Maybe I've missed some things though.

First of all, the time of the burglary(s) seems quite unusual for me. It appears to be a working class neighborhood where most folks would be up and getting ready for work/school at that time. Not that working class neighborhoods aren't targeted but the burglars generally wait until they know (or presume) they're not going to be caught by homeowners or seen by neighbors. 5:30am would be prime time to NOT burglarize a house unless you knew for sure the owners weren't there anyway.

Second, the time-gap between when the SUV was seen leaving and the time-frame the neighbors heard gunshots. 6am to 6:45am - and the fact that most seem to assume there's a connection between the suspect who killed AB and the SUV. The SUV leaves the area and 45 minutes later there are gunshots? That makes me suspect the driver and whatever passengers, if any, were possibly not even connected to the person pulling that trigger. I mean, if you've just burglarized a house at 5:30am & loaded your stolen vehicle with the goods, and are seen leaving at 6am, why would anyone even think that SUV would still be around at 6:45? The only thing that makes any sense here is, the piece of garbage that killed Amanda saw Davey leaving and wrongly assumed the house would be empty and ripe for another burglary. But, that would have to mean either Davey left earlier than the SUV did and that 6:11 time is wrong (where does that even come from? Clearly I missed where that was documented), or the losers in the SUV just left one guy behind for some strange reason in a neighborhood he clearly didn't belong in, and would have been seen as suspect walking away from.

Which brings me to my next utterly-confused point: MSM keeps saying it was a burglary gone wrong (or other words to that affect). But the man they released the still image of is seen carrying exactly nothing. People who break into homes steal things they can sell, i.e., electronics (mostly) and you can't stuff those into your baggy pants no matter how swag you think you are. I suppose it's entirely possible his plan was changed when he encountered Amanda but why would he even have bothered since the SUV left the area a good 45 minutes before the neighbors heard the gunshots? Was he just going to walk out the neighborhood toting a flat screen like it was commonplace?

Lastly, IF the person who has been named in MSM as being arrested for PV is the same person they believe to have used AB's debit card, his previous criminal history shows no connection whatsoever to gun violence or sexual crimes. He's a criminal for sure, but he operates in a different realm: stolen goods, burglary & drugs. I know sometimes criminals of one caliber advance to another, and sometimes there's a "first" but given his age and priors it's a bit of a stretch for me to think that's the guy they're looking for.

Just some thoughts - and I know I've probably missed a LOT of important details that have already been shared. This thread here has been moving like a wildfire. My hat is off to the mods. Y'all rock at keeping things as sane as possible in cases like this.

I will be the first to say there are tons of questions one could have on what has been reported.

But here are some possible explanations :

it's very possible that if the neighborhood has been cased they know a general time that people leave in the morning. Which would mean a plan could be --

enter house #1 - call suv to show up when you have located all valuables. The less time that suv is in a driveway , the less potential for someone to take note of it. Seems that first robbery 2 doors down went quickly. So if that burglary started at 5:30 and ended at 6am-ish then that's half an hour

next house was #2 - blackburns. Davey leaves at 6:11 -- so the individual enters the house and begins the process of locating valuables Plan would be the same, call suv when completed that process. Things didn't go as planned and at about 6:45 - roughly 30 minutes from when he davey left, a struggle occurs that leads to murder.

Now the plan is changed and perp likely cares zero about this robbery beyond what he might have put in pockets BEFORE the struggle. bank cards from a purse ? just theorizing. - so on the way out he calls the suv, but has no interest in sticking around to wait for the suv at the residence -- gunshots attract people potentially. So he starts walking and you see him on the phone in the cctv footage. eyewitnesses say they saw him on neighboring streets after this time as well as the suv - which likely picks him up -- away from blackburns street.

from that point, deciding to use the bankcards quickly after the robbery is likely your best shot, since they might not even be noticed as taken for hours.

I think it's all plausible, but police really haven't laid out what they believe happened, but more a spattering of details that people following the case have tried to timeline - without full knowledge of details from eyewitnesses or full extent of cctv footage that might exist.


All just theory here, certainly not stating this is how it went down. But I don't think it's an implausible theory. IF i am understanding the timeline correctly

 

[Too Curious]

I have no idea how quickly a dna test takes. But I would not be surprised if it takes over a week.

My understanding is that new technology makes swab tests pretty quick? If they are separating mixed blood then that takes longer.

 

[Too Curious]

BBM

AACK! :scared: Not me, not me! You are a brave one MaxManning! I'm afraid I'd only be calling 911 while hiding behind my sofa.

I live in an area where hunting is common. Unfortunately this time of year you hear gunshots often.

Her neighborhood doesn't seem like it would be close enough to open land that someone would think it was hunters, so I'm confused why someone claims they heard shots but didn't call police?

 

[bessie]

I can't stop thinking about the little boy, Weston. Just awful that he was there, ultimately unprotected in the end, and escaping harm or even death by the grace of God.

What are the theories on what happened there with him? Is the assumption that the perp knew there was a baby in the home? Have we heard anything about where Weston was-- I've heard it said he was "upstairs" but has anything like that been verified?

15 month olds are often up by 6:45, but of course that depends. He could have been upstairs his crib or downstairs.

But I keep wondering whether it was known Weston was there. And if so, I'm assuming the perp just felt no need to kill the child. If he was so abhorrent as to have done what he did to Amanda, I'm surprised he stopped at that and didn't harm the boy. So glad he is safe though. And I can't even imagine how relieved the family must be.

The baby was upstairs in his crib. And I feel the same. It's so unimaginable to think of that little boy alone...I can't even let my mind go there.

My feeling is that the perp didn't know when he entered the house that a baby was inside. IF he became aware of the child -- if he heard him crying -- it didn't faze him, because the baby wasn't a threat. Just like the dogs weren't a threat. He was there to take what he could, to do what he wanted to do, and get out. JMO

And her husband, he left home at 6:11. We believe the people committing this burglary saw this as a home that they could get in, take some things. Well, it so happened Amanda was home, 12 weeks pregnant. She had her little baby in the crib upstairs...and she was murdered.

 

[MaxManning]

BBM

AACK! :scared: Not me, not me! You are a brave one MaxManning! I'm afraid I'd only be calling 911 while hiding behind my sofa.

I can see that being a very good option, it's not clear when or even if police were called about the gunshots. I'd likely call police first. Was probably hard to pinpoint where the shots came from, but still would be nice to know that neighbors called police.

I definitely would go out, but don't get me wrong i'd be using alot of caution and trying to keep myself near a car or some cover if needed. I have heard gunshots before in a neighborhood I lived in, so I have done this drill before. I'd more be listening for someone crying for help or whatever, not looking to take on someone with a gun. It could be a gun accident and someone needs help getting medical assistance. So yeah, i think if i was a neighbor within a few houses, i'd hear a baby crying or notice a person leaving that residence.

But we have no idea who actually gave the gunshots info and how close they were to the blackburns house. Likely the gunshots could be heard pretty far down the road.

 

[MJPeony]

I live in an area where hunting is common. Unfortunately this time of year you hear gunshots often.

Her neighborhood doesn't seem like it would be close enough to open land that someone would think it was hunters, so I'm confused why someone claims they heard shots but didn't call police?

My assumption has always been that it wasn't until police questioned the neighbors- about anything they may have noticed or remembered during those certain hours in question- that someone would have "retro-actively" recalled gunshots. I base this on the fact that the ear witness reports of gunshots were 6:45-7:00am and DB didn't call police until after 8:30 when he returned home. So no police were there on the street between 6:45 and 8:30 to my understanding. Which means no one called them in. Likely was not registered as something concerning-- until prompted by police later.

I read- and sorry, have NO idea now where I read it- that ear witness reports are not always reliable. Which makes sense to me in this situation since it was originally not consciously noted. So I personally don't put a lot of stock into basing anything off of that. JMO.

 

[Too Curious]

This case makes me keep thinking about my about some friends of ours who were robbed at gunpoint. When the husband got home from work he had left the garage door open, similar to a neighborhood like this. Their baby was napping in her crib.
The gunmen put our friends in the downstairs bathroom and told them if they came out they were dead. They had to sit in that bathroom with their baby upstairs, not knowing when it would be safe to come out or what was happening to their daughter.
These criminals knew that there was a huge difference between charges if they actually killed someone - they took what they wanted and left.

This makes me think it would be unlikely for the people questioned to have killed AB. The guy in custody isn't new to crime. Why would he kill her instead of taking off if he had just been there to steal? She wouldn't know his name. I wouldn't think she'd be likely to be able to ID him off a short encounter - do any of his other charges have anything to do with weapons?

 

[MaxManning]

This case makes me keep thinking about my about some friends of ours who were robbed at gunpoint. When the husband got home from work he had left the garage door open, similar to a neighborhood like this. Their baby was napping in her crib.
The gunmen put our friends in the downstairs bathroom and told them if they came out they were dead. They had to sit in that bathroom with their baby upstairs, not knowing when it would be safe to come out or what was happening to their daughter.
These criminals knew that there was a huge difference between charges if they actually killed someone - they took what they wanted and left.

This makes me think it would be unlikely for the people questioned to have killed AB. The guy in custody isn't new to crime. Why would he kill her instead of taking off if he had just been there to steal? She wouldn't know his name. I wouldn't think she'd be likely to be able to ID him off a short encounter - do any of his other charges have anything to do with weapons?

I keep floating the theory of AB and DB having a gun in the house. It gives an explanation to alot of things we don't understand. If they have a gun in their upstairs bedroom and she is able to get to it before being detected, it becomes a waiting game. When the intruder comes up the stairs as he's likely looking for a bedroom, that's where the confrontation/struggle that they spoke of could have begun. in a hall or even on stairs. In close quarters, I would think you try to wrestle the gun away as opposed to run.

It's all about how aggressive she was in my opinion. If she was showing intent to kill him, he may very well have shot her to end what was endangering his own life.

I tend to agree that if she was passive and this was truly a burglary, he'd be like... you stay there.. and I'm leaving. That's why I believe that she likely initiated the struggle and possibly with a knife or gun.

all complete speculation on my part.

 

[MJPeony]

This case makes me keep thinking about my about some friends of ours who were robbed at gunpoint. When the husband got home from work he had left the garage door open, similar to a neighborhood like this. Their baby was napping in her crib.
The gunmen put our friends in the downstairs bathroom and told them if they came out they were dead. They had to sit in that bathroom with their baby upstairs, not knowing when it would be safe to come out or what was happening to their daughter.
These criminals knew that there was a huge difference between charges if they actually killed someone - they took what they wanted and left.

This makes me think it would be unlikely for the people questioned to have killed AB. The guy in custody isn't new to crime. Why would he kill her instead of taking off if he had just been there to steal? She wouldn't know his name. I wouldn't think she'd be likely to be able to ID him off a short encounter - do any of his other charges have anything to do with weapons?

BBM

This ^^^ This has stumped me from the start. Amanda would not have known this person's name if it were a random crime and she would certainly not have posed a physical threat to the man if he'd just run off. She was small.

Here's how my logic unfolds, and all just my own theorizing:

1) Random perp is just wanting to burglarize? >> Then he goes in, sees Amanda is there and would run.

2) If he DOESN'T run, he has two reasons not to run: a) He either wants to steal something so badly he needs her out of the way, or b) he is actually not there just to steal.

3) I cannot see how it was "a" as he walked away with not much loot. Sure, possible something hugely valuable was in his back pocket, but I think likely not worth murdering for.

4) I conclude he was not there just to steal. He had a reason to shoot Amanda- and to shoot her and kill her. Not just wound her in order to complete his burglary unencumbered.

5) Again, she would not have recognized him and been able to identify him to police had it been a random person.

6) So why kill her? B/c she would recognize him.... he was known to her.

7)... in which case he was not there to burglarize...

All definitely just MO.

 

[Lilibet]

We have been told repeatedly by Bessie that DB is off limits. He has been cleared by police and is a grieving victim.

ETA: Never mind. I see the post has gone "poof." Bessie's here even when I think she isn't! And fast too.

 

[MJPeony]

I keep floating the theory of AB and DB having a gun in the house... That's why I believe that she likely initiated the struggle and possibly with a knife or gun.

all complete speculation on my part.

snipped for brevity

Ok, good point- if she had a gun I can see him having a reason to kill her other than recognition. Not a knife though. B/c he had a gun. Gun trumps knife threat IMO. And he would just have to shoot her to wound.

But I personally don't think Amanda picked up a gun. IMO it wouldn't fit with LE saying she fought. I don't think of someone pulling a gun as fighting- it's more of a "distant" action and just in mind doesn't connote a struggle. MOO.

 

[MaxManning]

BBM

This ^^^ This has stumped me from the start. Amanda would not have known this person's name if it were a random crime and she would certainly not have posed a physical threat to the man if he'd just run off. She was small.

Here's how my logic unfolds, and all just my own theorizing:

1) Random perp is just wanting to burglarize? >> Then he goes in, sees Amanda is there and would run.

2) If he DOESN'T run, he has two reasons not to run: a) He either wants to steal something so badly he needs her out of the way, or b) he is actually not there just to steal.

3) I cannot see how it was "a" as he walked away with not much loot. Sure, possible something hugely valuable was in his back pocket, but I think likely not worth murdering for.

4) I conclude he was not there just to steal. He had a reason to shoot Amanda- and to shoot her and kill her. Not just wound her in order to complete his burglary unencumbered.

5) Again, she would not have recognized him and been able to identify him to police had it been a random person.

6) So why kill her? B/c she would recognize him.... he was known to her.

7)... in which case he was not there to burglarize...

All definitely just MO.

if you are in a struggle with someone over a gun and your know your life could be over very quickly in moments, shooting is likely not as much a well thought out thing. just my opinion. money means nothing in that situation. Once someone is dead, money/loot also has far less value than getting out. it's get out or higher your risk for getting caught and getting life in prison.

 

[MrsPC]

sorry - I came in late to the discussion & didn't realize DB was off limits. <modsnip>

 

[Lilibet]

Lilibet-

Not sure who you are referring to with the DB off-limits post. As for me, I'm not referring to him in my posts.

The post disappeared. See my Edit.

 

[MaxManning]

snipped for brevity

Ok, good point- if she had a gun I can see him having a reason to kill her other than recognition. Not a knife though. B/c he had a gun. Gun trumps knife threat IMO. And he would just have to shoot her to wound.

But I personally don't think Amanda picked up a gun. IMO it wouldn't fit with LE saying she fought. I don't think of someone pulling a gun as fighting- it's more of a "distant" action and just in mind doesn't connote a struggle. MOO.

I respectfully disagree. If someone has a knife and is coming at me -- yes, gun trumps knife and I don't think I'd take a chance on her having multiple stab attempts. a struggle where you know life is on the line, people don't tend to be really measured in removing threat.

They said there was a struggle. So that to me could mean that there was another weapon or her weapon being wrestled from her.

all speculation, but certainly plausible if she has either a knife or gun she was able to get to.

 

[Too Curious]

From the videos I've watched she just seems so submissive. I can't picture her grabbing a gun. But, I don't know her. Maybe she had gun handling experience.
The timing of the heard shots makes it seem like someone just walked in, shot her and left.
The multiple shots are weird, too.
One time my daughter looked out the front window and said "there's a guy walking into our back yard". There was no car in our drive and our nearest neighbor is an acre away. I'm a pretty big chicken, but my husband wasn't home and my first instinct was to run to the back deck, burst out the door and yell, "hey! Who's back here?" Momma bear instinct is real, ya'll.
In hindsight it was DUMB. If he had a gun and was going to try to get in the back door, he sure wasn't going to be be scared off by me. I watch too much ID and should know better (ha)
Turns out I just scared the crap out of a meter reader - but hey. Guess he will wear his vest and not just park at the end of the street in rural areas anymore.

A lot of rambling to say no one can predict what someone would do when protecting their kids. I'm an everyday wimp until you mess with my kids safety.